What the Heck is in French ECigs?!?!

[AgentAnia]

Ooohhh an "innovative" method. Well isnt that just convenient they are the only ones to possess this new fangled machinery.... my fat patootie!!!

Or as zay say eeen France, ma patootie grosse.

 

[DC2]

I'm aware of two studies that found formaldehyde, and here is what Dr. Siegel had to say about them...
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/06/new-study-shows-that-emission-of.html
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/10/new-study-provides-more-evidence-that.html

And here is Dr. Farsalinos chiming in on the Schripp study...
German Cancer Research Center and the case of formaldehyde in e-cigarettes Countless mistakes, impressive misinformation

 

[S1LV3R]

I'm aware of two studies that found formaldehyde, and here is what Dr. Siegel had to say about them...
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/06/new-study-shows-that-emission-of.html
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/10/new-study-provides-more-evidence-that.html

And here is Dr. Farsalinos chiming in on the Schripp study...
German Cancer Research Center and the case of formaldehyde in e-cigarettes Countless mistakes, impressive misinformation

Thanks for those links DC2. Good reads

 

[Rickajho]

It's the Daily Mail !
Jesus H that is the most vile , racist , homophobic , right wing insidious piece of crap excuse for a news paper .
To wipe ones .... with it would be an insult to your rectum .
That paper would make Adolf's propaganda seem like a Woodstock love-in

Was the article done in conjunction with The National Enquirer testing labs?

 

[S1LV3R]

Was the article done in conjunction with The National Enquirer testing labs?

LOL probably

 

[MonkInsane]

The Mail is well known for twisting the facts, see: Lazy, stupid, wrong – the Mail can’t stop itself « The counterfactual

The french study they are quoting actually said that they are not as harmfull as cigarettes, plus that study was not peer-reviewed. See Clive's letter to The Mail's editor.

The Mail published similar bull earlier this year.

 

[dr g]

Man that is infurating. Garbage science and hyped up by garbage publications, and of course you know it will reverberate throughout throughout other media markets. I'm already seeing it pop up in my facebook feed.

One great thing I got from reading the french article (translated of course), aside from the excellent vociferous response from french vapers ... is that the French term for vapers is "vapoteurs" ... i LOVE that. I think I will start using that instead of "vapers."

 

[gayhalo]

My comments were not put up so they got this feedback....

Yes I have a story. My comments on the e cig article have not been put up. I wonder why? You say they are not moderated so it cannot be the content. Maybe it's my user name. Gayhalo. First I would like to point out that there is more than one meaning to Gay. The name is my dog showing prefix registered with the kennel club in 1982 before the word was hijacked. I am not gay in the new meaning of the word but I think this may be an example of homophobic censorship and for that you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[MonkInsane]

My comments were not put up so they got this feedback....

Yes I have a story. My comments on the e cig article have not been put up. I wonder why? You say they are not moderated so it cannot be the content. Maybe it's my user name. Gayhalo. First I would like to point out that there is more than one meaning to Gay. The name is my dog showing prefix registered with the kennel club in 1982 before the word was hijacked. I am not gay in the new meaning of the word but I think this may be an example of homophobic censorship and for that you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Gay is also another word for happy.

 

[Orb Skewer]

One of the 'dodgy' components they may have found would have been Acrolein*.
Very easy to produce in a laboratory-
Some vendors make spurious and ludicrous claims that their product (cartos) are 'equivelent to 20-40 cigarettes'
How they get this figure and are allowed to make these claims is by using a 'puff counter'-a piece of electro mechanical lab equipment to replace the 'traditional' smoking Beagles.
These machines count the amount of puffs from a carto-until they are dry,
well before the 'claimed' 20-40 cigarettes count of equivelent puffs has been reached these cartos will no doubt be too hot to touch and will be emitting high levels of Acrolein, Formaldehyde and other nasties produced by the scorching of the PG/VG and the poly filling.

I have often wondered if the people attracted to sh**-O-Likes (Novices) believe the 'hype' and attempt to make one pre filled carto last 2 whole days (for a PAD former smoker)-there will be countless out there who are dumb enough.

More about Acrolein* here
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/455394-glycerine-vapor-acrolein-issues.html

Anyhow-just a little 'curve-ball' -back to the French 'study'
L'article de Grand merde !

 

[Glen Snyder]

Odd, I can't seem to find a pdf of the study anywhere.

You have to be a paid subscriber to download the pdf sometime after September 15th.

 

[S1LV3R]

One of the 'dodgy' components they may have found would have been Acrolein*.
Very easy to produce in a laboratory-
Some vendors make spurious and ludicrous claims that their product (cartos) are 'equivelent to 20-40 cigarettes'
How they get this figure and are allowed to make these claims is by using a 'puff counter'-a piece of electro mechanical lab equipment to replace the 'traditional' smoking Beagles.
These machines count the amount of puffs from a carto-until they are dry,
well before the 'claimed' 20-40 cigarettes count of equivelent puffs has been reached these cartos will no doubt be too hot to touch and will be emitting high levels of Acrolein, Formaldehyde and other nasties produced by the scorching of the PG/VG and the poly filling.

I have often wondered if the people attracted to sh**-O-Likes (Novices) believe the 'hype' and attempt to make one pre filled carto last 2 whole days (for a PAD former smoker)-there will be countless out there who are dumb enough.

More about Acrolein* here
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/455394-glycerine-vapor-acrolein-issues.html

Anyhow-just a little 'curve-ball' -back to the French 'study'
L'article de Grand merde !

Very good point Orb. I would no doubt say thats where they are getting their numbers from. Thats kind of a rough assesment of cigalike users though. They do serve a purpose and thats getting good people off analogs and turn them onto the world of vaping, if only being a crappy starter. I dont agree with the manufacturers claims of that many smokes replacements and alot of them do it.



HAHA drg. I love that. We are vapoteurs!!

 

[jtpjc]

Gay is also another word for happy.

So, gay people are happy?! There should be a law against that!
JK of course.

 

[Bill Godshall]

My Google searches couldn't even find the National Consumers Institute (INC) or their magazine 60 Million Consumers.

But we need to get a copy of this article, and hopefully a copy of INC's study/test results.

It appears that Laurenceau is far more interested in scaring the public and imposing lots of unwarranted regulations on e-cigarettes than in protecting consumers.

I found several other articles citing INC's Thomas Laurenceau claims about e-cigs and his new tests (below), which I suspect were done improperly, probably by machines that inhaled the e-cigs at more intense levels (and at hotter temperatures) than vapers inhale.

None of the previously conducted studies reported this kind of results, but Thomas Laurenceau, editor of 60 Millions Consommateurs says that’s only because the INC team used a new method – an installation capable of simulating the operation of an electronic cigarette and of collecting all the emitted compounds – to detect the never-before-found substances.

The research also revealed the presence of another very toxic molecule, acrolein. It was detected when testing the popular Joytech E-Roll which apparently heats up too fast causing an unusual reaction with glycerin molecules in the e-liquid and producing acrolein “at levels that sometimes exceed even those measured in some tobacco cigarettes”. Acetaldahyde is a chemical classified as possibly carcinogenic. It was also detected during the INC test in amounts “far from negligible” but that remain lower than those observed in analogs. Researchers also found that some e-cigarette brands contained traces of nickel, chrome and antimony.

Most of the e-cigarette brands used during this mysterious study from the National Consumers’ Institute are only available on the French market

And from another article

He also criticized the lack of safety cap on some refills while nicotine is particularly toxic for children. Ingested high doses of certain products of the study can kill a child, says Laurenceau.

Also detected, acrolein, a toxic molecule, issued very significant amount by E-Roll, and "at levels that exceed even those sometimes can be measured in smoke some cigarettes." This is likely due to a device that heats too quickly.

Trace metals "potentially toxic" were detected in Cigartex freeing as nickel and chrome a real cigarette and disposable Cigway freeing more antimony.

As for acetaldehyde, ranked possibly carcinogenic, the contents may be far from negligible identified are much lower than those observed with tobacco cigarettes.

The magazine also noted that the dose of nicotine liquid refills does not always correspond to what is mentioned, with lower levels in all cases. Another defect labeling: products advertised "free" which contains propylene glycol or manufacturers who "forget" to mention his presence.

 

[S1LV3R]

My Google searches couldn't even find the National Consumers Institute (INC) or their magazine 60 Million Consumers.

But we need to get a copy of this article, and hopefully a copy of INC's study/test results.

I have found several other articles citing INC's Thomas Laurenceau claims about e-cigs and his new tests (below). It appears that Laurnceau is far more interested in scaring the public and imposing lots of unwarranted regulations on e-cigarettes than in protecting consumers.

And from another article

Exactly what i was suspecting. Someone wants something done so they found the biggest full of crap guy they could find to support their BS ideas with bogus facts to help push their agenda. Maybe i should point Anonymous or AntiSec to this Laurnceau guy and see what they can dig up. If you discredit the messenger big enough in the eyes of the sheeple, his message will be muted.

 

[AgentAnia]

Here's a link to the "60 millions Consommateurs" article; it's in French. The only English translation I could find translated only the first paragraph. Will try to track down an accurate translation of the entire article and post it here. Lacking that, I'll have a go at translating it. Pas si inoffensive, la cigarette électronique ! / Articles / Actualités - Le site du magazine 60 millions de Consommateurs

Here's the "google translated" INC website: Google Translate

French version: Conso.net - Page d'accueil

Hope this helps.

Query to moderator: Would I be committing any rules violation posting a translation of an entire article from another website?

 

[Bill Godshall]

The source is at
Home - Le site du magazine 60 millions de Consommateurs

Some good critical comments posted.

It appears the researchers designed a testing protocol using machines that sucked on the e-cigs much harder and longer (than when vapers inhale), which increased the temperature of atomization.

 

[AgentAnia]

Here's a (somewhat awkward) google translation of the article: Google Translate

 

[Orb Skewer]

The source is at
Home - Le site du magazine 60 millions de Consommateurs

Some good critical comments posted.

It appears the researchers designed a testing protocol using machines that sucked on the e-cigs much harder and longer (than when vapers inhale), which increased the temperature of atomization.

A puff counter-

 

[AgentAnia]

Wasn't this "puff counter" used in some old, debunked US studies? I seem to recall Dr. Farsalinos debunking at least one of these studies. If so, sorry 60 Millions Consommateurs, it's been done, been debunked, issue a retraction and move on...