What to do - Proposed bans in 4 states
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Thank for this post. This has opened my eyes as well of my fellow friends who recently got into vapping became more interested in this debate. I wouldn't want to see unfair bannings (especially the use of them) out of cities based on pure ignorance.
I just sent out a widespread of emails in Illinois and Chicago.
I just sent out a widespread of emails in Illinois and Chicago.
I think that it all boils down to money.
everyone is after your money, especially the government.
New Hampshire? Are you sure? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Folks,
This post may not be popular but I'm sure it will generate discussion. I agree that this current trend to ban ecigs is crazy. Being a recovered 25 year smoker I personally believe the product is a lifeline for those absolutely addicted to nicotine as I am. I also realize, as most everyone here, that we are the proud, the strong, the ginnie pigs(or lemmings as the case may be).
I like most of us, have tried the other methods of nicotine replacement therapy. I could not live with chewing up the insides of my mouth, giving myself heartburn, hot flashes, hiccups, heart palpitations from imprecise administration methods and oh yea; depression from psychoactive drug therapies.
I think we all need to take a hard look and decide if we feel stronger about whether we believe that ecigs should be tax free or legal. If the answer, as in my case, is legal we should maybe modify our approach to the representatives and make it clear that we see the fact that the tax revenues are not inescapable and a better alternative to us than outright illegality (so we lie). The truth is that we KNOW that cigarettes are deadly! The truth is also that we BELIEVE that ecigs are not deadly or as deadly and choose the uncertainty of the ecig rather than the certainty of the analog.
The methods the pharmaceutical and insurance industries used to flim-flam the health care reform should be adhered to in this case which is DAMAGE CONTROL!8-o If we modify our stance now and make a proactive stance (don't you just hate that word) making the above arguments clear to the representatives; I believe we stand a better chance of at least maintaining the privilege to continue using the devices UNTIL THEY ARE PROVEN DANGEROUSE rather than being deigned the privilege until they are proven safer than cigarettes!
The tax equation is pretty simple as follows: 1 analog cigarette delivers about 2 mg of nicotine. 30ml x 24mg/ml = 720mg of nicotine. Approximately 50% of nicotine liquid is delivered so 720mg * 50% = 360mg. 360mg / 2mg/smoke = 180 cigarettes / 20 = 9 packs of cigarettes. Ouch, I'd hate to pay that much tax on a bottle of juice but would gladly do it to be legally able to continue to vape. The taxation structure on the cigarettes is in place and accordingly could be modified to include esmoking juice rather than creating a whole new class of product.
A couple hard and fast rules should be applied which I think could be readally agreed upon.
Rule #1; This product is not intended for minors and should not be sold or marketed to people under 18. If parents, with problem smoker children, want to take matters into theor own hands, that is an independent argument and would of course be considdered contributing to the delenquncy of a minor just like alcohol.
Rule #2; A disclaimer should be required on the juice saying that "There is no evidence that the product is actualy safer than cigarettes and may cause physical harm and that the user assumes all risk involved with the use of the product!"
Rule #3; Juice makers should print all ingredients on the bottle and have each batch of base product certified free of mercury, ethyl alcohol etc by an independent laboratory(This could only help all e-vapors)
Rule 34; Great pains should be taken by everyone in all discussions on the forums, with others and especialy govenment representatives to stop calling them e-cigarettes. We should all agree on a name or group of descriptors and start calling them nic-halers, nic-stick, nic-vapers or something else so as to distance them from cigarettes.
I realize this argument can be improved but the basic premis is the shape of things to come.
Awaiting your deluge of hate mail
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain;
The Great and Powerful Oz has Spoken"
I disagree dmarnaud2 I don't feel they should be able to tax e-cigs/e-liquid or any related products in the same fashion as tobacco cigarettes
The rationale (rationalization) the govt. has used to justify exhorbitant taxation on regular cigarettes is the high cost to the health care system related to tobacco smoking related disease. (the disingenuousness and unethical-disproportionate taxation issues could be a separate thread)
However, e-cigs are not (so far, in at least three years of use in the U.S.) related to this high cost in "smoking-related" disease and in fact may very well prove to substantially DECREASE health related costs in both the short term and long term and thus should only be subject to a sales tax (which is different for different states). The fact that both state and
federal govts have for years relied heavily on and indeed become reliant on unfair and obscene tobacco tax revenues is their own greedy self-serving fault and I do not want to see them bailed-out, as it were, on the backs of former smokers who simply want a smoking alternative for their own personal reasons and who should be afforded this option.
From what I understand, New Hampshire is just banning sales to minors - not adults.
So if I'm interpreting this correctly California SB 882 has been amended to state that it will only limit e-cig sales to 18 an older and is not a ban! I signed up for e-mail notifications to SB 882 and received the following link to the amendment made yesterday:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_0851-0900/sb_882_bill_20100405_amended_sen_v98.pdf
I'll repost this as a separate thread for everyone as well. Good job to all those who wrote letters!
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_0851-0900/sb_882_bill_20100405_amended_sen_v98.pdf
I'll repost this as a separate thread for everyone as well. Good job to all those who wrote letters!
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While it appears there may be one particular person at the FDA that wants to kill us, it also appears that our activism is having some positive effects on some of these statewide bills. This is now at least the second bill that I am aware of that has been changed, the first one being Utah.
Can someone set up an online petition specific to each state and or has anyone set one up?
It is funny, one of the basic concepts in the law is “innocent until proven guilty” but they are ready to ban the eCig because there are not enough tests.
Analogs have been proven extremely bad, but we will have them until hell freezes.
The more I try to think as they do, the more I am afraid they will ban the eCig. Ok, they want to tax them… how? More tax to higher nicotine content in the ejuice? What will happen with the non-nicotine juice?
Will tornado batteries have higher tax than megas or regulars? What about different models of devices?
Would they deal with all that or give a flat taxation of 320%?
My statement is simple…
I am a user of a Personal Vaporizer (e-cigarette) for over a month without touching a cigarette. In such a small time I went from using nicotine liquid to now use non-nicotine liquid most of the time.
I feel better and to my family there is no second hand smoke. We could not be happier.
Leaders or the world, in your wise, non-monetary-seeking concern about me, my family and all population, IF you find the e-cigarette to be dangerous or addictive, by all means, ban it…
When you are at it, proceed the same way with all that is harmful to us: Coffee is a drug, alcohol is addictive, pollution from cars and every other transport is bad, plastic is not biodegradable, paper kill trees so stop asking for a million documents and copies when filing a document; fight effectively drugs and pornography… in other words, do your job.
Now, if you can, please share with us your infinite knowledge why e-cigarettes shall be banned but we should keep the rest “good” things paying you so much money.
Analogs have been proven extremely bad, but we will have them until hell freezes.
The more I try to think as they do, the more I am afraid they will ban the eCig. Ok, they want to tax them… how? More tax to higher nicotine content in the ejuice? What will happen with the non-nicotine juice?
Will tornado batteries have higher tax than megas or regulars? What about different models of devices?
Would they deal with all that or give a flat taxation of 320%?
My statement is simple…
I am a user of a Personal Vaporizer (e-cigarette) for over a month without touching a cigarette. In such a small time I went from using nicotine liquid to now use non-nicotine liquid most of the time.
I feel better and to my family there is no second hand smoke. We could not be happier.
Leaders or the world, in your wise, non-monetary-seeking concern about me, my family and all population, IF you find the e-cigarette to be dangerous or addictive, by all means, ban it…
When you are at it, proceed the same way with all that is harmful to us: Coffee is a drug, alcohol is addictive, pollution from cars and every other transport is bad, plastic is not biodegradable, paper kill trees so stop asking for a million documents and copies when filing a document; fight effectively drugs and pornography… in other words, do your job.
Now, if you can, please share with us your infinite knowledge why e-cigarettes shall be banned but we should keep the rest “good” things paying you so much money.
Your list is far too small.
First of all, they need to either ban meats that can be fried, or frying pans, I'm not sure how they'll work that out though. Barbequeues need to be made illegal. Cars must be driven no faster than 30mph on the freeway, and 2mph where people are present. All sports should be made illegal.
Reading needs to be eliminated, because it strains your eyes and can lead to needing glasses, which costs all of us money in health insurance costs. All homes need to be one story only, so as to eliminate stairs. Scissors and knives must be removed from the market immediately. We need to learn to tear our meat apart with our bare hands.
No, strike that, there should be no meat, due to the elevated fat content.
Except buffalo, and ostrich. We can eat buffalo and ostrich.
Just to verify what Kristin said, I just got off the phone with a staffer at Ellen Corbett's office and he said that because of the public reaction, she has amended SB882 to only limit the sales to minors.
I mentioned ECF as well.
I mentioned ECF as well.
I like the theory, but lets not drag pornography into this. It hasn't done anything to anyone.
And apparently I can't quote properly.... Nevermind.
Well put DC2 - I had to laugh, but it is so tragically true! As in the famous song lyrics of long ago, "...and the beat goes on...the beat goes on..."
However now it is ...and the beat-down goes on...the beat-down goes on...drones keep pounding b*ll..... to my brain....la de da de dee, we're no longer free.....
I know this post may not amount to much; it may not mean anything at all, as far as the concerned US legislators are concerned.
I have visited the US and my smoking habit went with me. However, the prohibitive cost of analogs in that country, my daughter's hatred of cigarettes due to its 2nd-hand effects and my family's growing concern about the health effects of tobacco almost got rid of this nasty habit (I wish they did!). The discouragements at least got me down to 4 analogs a day during my stay but somehow returned to a full 2 packs daily when I got back to my country.
Then my daughter and her wonderful family sent me a gift from heaven - a starter kit of e-cig that I immediately fell in love with.
It was sheer bliss - the ensuing domestic peace after the analogs finally left the house (and the car) not to mention the feeling of a decongested lung after decades of tobacco smoke and the countless other reasons that Surgeon General constantly warns about.
I know this story has been told and retold countless times though in different forms and context but hey, e-cigs at least offer a different route and a less painless one than tobacco smoke.
Now that e-cigs are gaining a small foothold to the vast, unlimited territories of analog cigarette manufacturers, the legislators are coming to their rescue indeed.
Perhaps the time has come for e-cig manufacturers, retailers, and consumers put a LOBBY FUND to counter the well-funded lobbyists of analog manufacturers who fear losing a fractional part of their multi-billion business to e-cigs. At the very least, the pro e-cigs may equalize the playing field in the august halls of the senate and congress.
God Bless America!
I have visited the US and my smoking habit went with me. However, the prohibitive cost of analogs in that country, my daughter's hatred of cigarettes due to its 2nd-hand effects and my family's growing concern about the health effects of tobacco almost got rid of this nasty habit (I wish they did!). The discouragements at least got me down to 4 analogs a day during my stay but somehow returned to a full 2 packs daily when I got back to my country.
Then my daughter and her wonderful family sent me a gift from heaven - a starter kit of e-cig that I immediately fell in love with.
It was sheer bliss - the ensuing domestic peace after the analogs finally left the house (and the car) not to mention the feeling of a decongested lung after decades of tobacco smoke and the countless other reasons that Surgeon General constantly warns about.
I know this story has been told and retold countless times though in different forms and context but hey, e-cigs at least offer a different route and a less painless one than tobacco smoke.
Now that e-cigs are gaining a small foothold to the vast, unlimited territories of analog cigarette manufacturers, the legislators are coming to their rescue indeed.
Perhaps the time has come for e-cig manufacturers, retailers, and consumers put a LOBBY FUND to counter the well-funded lobbyists of analog manufacturers who fear losing a fractional part of their multi-billion business to e-cigs. At the very least, the pro e-cigs may equalize the playing field in the august halls of the senate and congress.
God Bless America!
here's a positive that can be talked about when discussing the pros of e-cigs: no butts!
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