When did this happen

[Vaperer]

I went down to my local smoke shop to get some juice. I told him I wanted him to bump it up to 12 mg. He sold me the juice and then he sold me a little packet of nicotine juice. So I mix it myself. Is this a state law or does every smoke shop do the same thing now. The salesman said it was federal law
Thank you for your response in advance

 

[JCinFLA]

Is this a state law or does every smoke shop do the same thing now. The salesman said it was federal law

Well, I can tell you that every vape shop doesn't do the same thing now...at least not here in Florida anyway. The local ones here, and others I know about in Orlando, either sell the commercially made/bottled eliquid, or they custom make it for you while you wait. Both already include the nicotine when they hand you your eliquid.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

Sounds right. I'm guessing you're American? Profile doesn't say.

In the good old days every vape shop had a mixing lab in the back room and sold house blends. Then laws passed to stifle this cottage industry and centralize e-juice production into licensed, inspected facilities that demonstrably followed safe practices. So he legally can't mix. You ordered a 6mg juice that tasted great, but wanted it in a higher strength, so this is a clever work-around that makes everybody happy.

Edit for clarity: I believe the shop owner is concerned that the act of adding nic would constitute mixing.

 

[Vaperer]

Sounds right. I'm guessing you're American? Profile doesn't say.

In the good old days every vape shop had a mixing lab in the back room and sold house blends. Then laws passed to stifle this cottage industry and centralize e-juice production into licensed, inspected facilities that demonstrably followed safe practices. So he legally can't mix. You ordered a 6mg juice that tasted great, but wanted it in a higher strength, so this is a clever work-around that makes everybody happy.

Everybody in Puerto Rico is American. I'm a Mainland American from Florida I reside in Puerto Rico. That was very informative thank you for your response

 

[Toronnah]

A number of vape shops dont nic. They buy premixed. So imagine sticking one flavour in 3 sizes and 4 nic strengths. That 12 bottles of one flavour.

What your guy did might also be a way of minimizing inventory costs.

 

[BrotherBob]

I went down to my local smoke shop to get some juice. I told him I wanted him to bump it up to 12 mg. He sold me the juice and then he sold me a little packet of nicotine juice. So I mix it myself. Is this a state law or does every smoke shop do the same thing now. The salesman said it was federal law
Thank you for your response in advance

States and Federal regulations often conflict and sometimes there are grey areas. If you want to bump up an existing juice, might like to read:
Nicotine Shots and Shortfill E-Liquid; Understanding the basics

 

[stols001]

I don't think it's Federal law no.

My guess is the guy wanted you to think it was something he "had" to do although I will say it was perhaps weird that he just didn't mix it in there himself, etc.

Maybe he wanted you to feel special, but I don't get the "Federal law " part. Honestly I probably would not return to that emporium. Not so much because of the "Here is your extra packet of nic" part, but more because the guy's a liar.

So what else is he lying about? Juice born on dates, other ingredients, elderly nic, who KNOWS.

But, that's just me.

Anna

 

[GOMuniEsq]

I don't think it's Federal law no.

My guess is the guy wanted you to think it was something he "had" to do although I will say it was perhaps weird that he just didn't mix it in there himself, etc.

Maybe he wanted you to feel special, but I don't get the "Federal law " part. Honestly I probably would not return to that emporium. Not so much because of the "Here is your extra packet of nic" part, but more because the guy's a liar.

So what else is he lying about? Juice born on dates, other ingredients, elderly nic, who KNOWS.

But, that's just me.

Anna

Isn't the FDA involved at this point? https://www.thecontinuumofrisk.com/...y-audit-inspection-program-reaches-milestone/
It seems reasonable that a small businessman would be wary of violating regulations. It's also far less wasteful to stock one type and have the customer add nic as needed.

 

[Eskie]

Isn't the FDA involved at this point? https://www.thecontinuumofrisk.com/...y-audit-inspection-program-reaches-milestone/
It seems reasonable that a small businessman would be wary of violating regulations. It's also far less wasteful to stock one type and have the customer add nic as needed.

It may work for inventory control, but there is nothing at all about Federal limits on nic concentration, at least yet. I order 12 mg regularly for my pods, 24 mg is also available, and obviously you can order 100 mg nic without issue. There are nic salts in 50 mg in many retail stores. Maybe that'll change down the road, but there is no legal obstacle to selling whatever concentration nic you want to stock.

 

[Beamslider]

It is their interpretation of FDA regs. It has nothing to do with the amount of Nicotine in the ejuice. It is the fact that they are mixing it if they put the bump in for you. That is how they are reacting not based on law limiting the nicotine.

There are a couple of vape stores here that used to make and install coils for RTAs, etc. When the FDA stuff came in, they stopped doing so. Put up sign saying they no longer were able to do it because of FDA regulation. They still sold coils but you had to install them yourself.

Here now flavors other than Tobacco are banned. To get around this the stores sell flavored ejuice brands with 0 Nic and sell nicotine packets for you to put in yourself.

Usually the nic packets they have are these.
Concentrated Nicotine Solution Packets | Liquid Nicotine

 

[JCinFLA]

Here now flavors other than Tobacco are banned. To get around this the stores sell flavored ejuice brands with 0 Nic and sell nicotine packets for you to put in yourself.

How does selling nicotine packets...help them get around the ban on flavors other than tobacco?

 

[Rossum]

It all depends on whether the shop registered as a "manufacturer". If they didn't, then they're correct; current FDA regs would prohibit them from mixing anything in their shop.

If they did register as a manufacturer, then it's more of a gray area. With their registration, they're supposed to have submitted a comprehensive list of recopies for everything that they make in-house, including every nicotine level. If the juice in question is a mass-produced item, it probably isn't something they listed with their registration and they're prohibited from "adulterating" it in any way.

Of course plenty of shops have been ignoring all this (just like they're ignoring the reg that says they can't sell anything that was introduced to the market after 8/8/16), and enforcement has been slim-to-none. But a lack of enforcement doesn't make it legal.

 

[Beamslider]

How does selling nicotine packets...help them get around the ban on flavors other than tobacco?

Because there is no nicotine in 0 Mg flavor ejuice and the law only bans flavored ejuice containing nicotine. So if sold separately they are in compliance.

 

[Rossum]

How does selling nicotine packets...help them get around the ban on flavors other than tobacco?

The FDA's flavor ban does not apply to shops that do not admit under-age people. Since the OP mentioned it was a "smoke shop", I would assume they qualify for this exemption.

Now there are some local bans that go even further, but I've not heard of anything like that in Puerto Rico.

 

[stols001]

Wow. This is a super interesting,

Nicotine. Freezer. Yep.

Anna

 

[TheKiwiGuy]

In Australia, you cannot get nicotine in local stores at all (But you can import from oversea). So the workaround is to buy zero nicotine juice and import nicotine pack from oversea.
is your premade juice from a brand or DIY? If it's the former, maybe the supplier delivers the juice like that to get away with any country that has similar law like the Aussie one.

 

[stratus.vaping]

Oh my, such a huge variety of nonsensical regulation worldwide!

The EU TPD (Tobacco Products Directive, 2016) regulations that UK will possibly keep (due to being overwhelmed with legislation that needs changing) after Brexit are also daft.

A brief summary of the nic bits - Liquid containing any amount of nic can only be purchased in 10ml containers at a max strength of 20mg. Hence the prevalence of large "short-fill" zero nic flavoured liquid bottles here and "nic-shots" in bottles that you add yourself. Confusion about how strong that liquid then becomes is common amongst beginners. Me too, my maths was never good!

Net result = even more plastic bottles in landfill or worse and more fiddling around and confusion for those trying to quit the fags.

As an aside - TPD limits tank size to 2ml only. This is worked around by some manufacturers selling, seperately, extender kits of a bubble glass or a taller glass with a chimney extension. This is not illegal. Many of the sample devices I get have a "spare" bubble glass in the box that is not TPD compliant.. that's stretching the legislation and I have had an issue with Customs control as a result.

We are fortunate in UK that evidence based research has informed decisions to make vaping an officially supported means of stopping smoking. The NHS support it and there are vape shops in some hospitals now. Smoking is in rapid decline here. The TPD regulations have a hindering effect on all that, there's our daftness!

 

[Rossum]

h my, such a huge variety of nonsensical regulation worldwide!

Indeed. But they're necessary because otherwise thousands of people would suffer irreparable harm, right?

 

[DaveP]

Indeed. But they're necessary because otherwise thousands of people would suffer irreparable harm, right?

Or they'd quit smoking and deprive our rich Uncle Sam and his state cronies of their tobacco tax receipts.

 

[MacTechVpr]

…Of course plenty of shops have been ignoring all this (just like they're ignoring the reg that says they can't sell anything that was introduced to the market after 8/8/16), and enforcement has been slim-to-none. But a lack of enforcement doesn't make it legal.

Still trying to figure out what happened to Gottlieb's 100 Mio for the FDA in "user fees". That would break our back I'm afraid (self-funding and further interpretation).

While everyone trips over themselves about the children we keep building parallel government.

Good luck.