When to change the battery in a mechanical mod ?

[evan le'garde]

So my question is pretty basic. I'm still researching mechanicals and still have a few questions. But today i'd just like to understand how i'd know when to change a battery in a mechanical mod ?. If i were to use an unprotected aw imr battery in a mech how would i know when to change it out ?. Does it just stop working when the battery is flat ?, or do i change it when the vape quality has significantly reduced ?. I'd ask the same question for protected icr batteries too ?.

I do realise that unprotected batteries shouldn't be used in a mech but i've read a few things posted by baditude and he says, if i've got this right, "safe chemistry batteries are ok to use", or words to that effects, i'm not using a direct quote.

 

[retired1]

On my hybrid, I notice a very marked drop off in power after about 1 tank. Generally, that's my sign to swap the battery out. The times I've tested the battery when that happens, the voltage has been sitting at near 3.2v which is perfect for me.

You'll need to test your batteries periodically in order to find your own personal rhythm when it comes to mechanicals. For me, it's approximately 1 battery to 1 tank of ejuice.

 

[cskent]

As with any unregulated device, you'll notice a drop off in vapor production as the cell discharges. When you feel you aren't getting as much vapor as you'd like, it's time to recharge. I usually reach this point at around 3.3 to 3.5 volts, depending on the resistance I'm running.

 

[evan le'garde]

On my hybrid, I notice a very marked drop off in power after about 1 tank. Generally, that's my sign to swap the battery out. The times I've tested the battery when that happens, the voltage has been sitting at near 3.2v which is perfect for me.

You'll need to test your batteries periodically in order to find your own personal rhythm when it comes to mechanicals. For me, it's approximately 1 battery to 1 tank of ejuice.

What is the worst case scenario if a vaper continues to use a near flat battery in a mech ?

 

[gotch23]

Change batteries? As the others said... when you feel the vape diminishing too much.
That happens for me mostly about 3.8 volt left.

Which batteries? Rather use safe chemistry (IMR) batteries than protected batteries.
They are even safer. Never use unprotected batteries, that don't have safe chemistry.

 

[K_Tech]

What is the worst case scenario if a vaper continues to use a near flat battery in a mech ?

You'll basically ruin a perfectly good battery, and quite possibly make it dangerous to recharge.

Good battery information here:

Battery University

 

[Ryedan]

So my question is pretty basic. I'm still researching mechanicals and still have a few questions. But today i'd just like to understand how i'd know when to change a battery in a mechanical mod ?. If i were to use an unprotected aw imr battery in a mech how would i know when to change it out ?. Does it just stop working when the battery is flat ?, or do i change it when the vape quality has significantly reduced ?. I'd ask the same question for protected icr batteries too ?.

I do realise that unprotected batteries shouldn't be used in a mech but i've read a few things posted by baditude and he says, if i've got this right, "safe chemistry batteries are ok to use", or words to that effects, i'm not using a direct quote.

Like has already been said, you will notice the drop in performance when your battery voltage goes down. When I first started using mech mods I used to check the voltage often until I got to know the process. I aim to change mine out at 3.7 - 3.6 volts, or at least not below 3.5 volts because it's dropping fast then and it's important not to drain them too far. Regulated mods will stop the discharge at no lower than 3.3V typically and for a good reason.

Baditude has a few great blogs here on battery issues and selection. In a nutshell, never use ICR li-ion cells in a mechanical mod, even if they are protected. IMR and hybrids use safer chemistry which means they will not burn when they vent and they are considered appropriate without protection. That pretty much eliminates the risk of a properly vented mod from exploding. I think you'll find a link to a list of batteries that are safe in Bad's blogs.

ETA: BTW, what is the lowest resistance you think you ever want use for a coil?

 

[cskent]

What is the worst case scenario if a vaper continues to use a near flat battery in a mech ?

If you continue to vape until your battery goes below 2.5 volts you've likely over discharged it to the point where most battery chargers won't even try to charge it anymore. Find the spec sheet on the batteries you've got, or intend to get, and look for the minimum voltage. It'll probably be around 2.5 volts too.

I believe you're overthinking this though, you'll reach a point where the vape just isn't satisfying anymore, or the flavor changes for the worse, way before you hit 2.5 volts. At least that's my opinion.

 

[Ryedan]

If you continue to vape until your battery goes below 2.5 volts you've likely over discharged it to the point where most battery chargers won't even try to charge it anymore. Find the spec sheet on the batteries you've got, or intend to get, and look for the minimum voltage. It'll probably be around 2.5 volts too.

I believe you're overthinking this though, you'll reach a point where the vape just isn't satisfying anymore, or the flavor changes for the worse, way before you hit 2.5 volts. At least that's my opinion.

I would have thought so too cskent, but I took my batteries down to about 2.5V a couple of times at the beginning.

 

[evan le'garde]

If someone, who is inexperienced, were to purchase a mechanical mod, and not knowing the safety issues, bought any random battery for it, even though the vendor recommended protected batteries, chose to ignore the advice because they didn't see it as being an issue, wouldn't that be something regulators would see as being a flaw in the industry. It is an issue of health and safety when a vendor recommends a particular type of battery but doesn't stress the importance of the safety aspects. Other than coming to a forum such as ecf to do research, someone wouldn't realise there is a safety issue regarding battery types for use in a mechanical mod. Buying a mech being no different to buying a torch, in their eyes they'd just be buying "a battery" for it, plain and simple.

So isn't this an aspect of the vaping world that could be considered, by the regulators, as dangerous ?.

 

[evan le'garde]

Like has already been said, you will notice the drop in performance when your battery voltage goes down. When I first started using mech mods I used to check the voltage often until I got to know the process. I aim to change mine out at 3.7 - 3.6 volts, or at least not below 3.5 volts because it's dropping fast then and it's important not to drain them too far. Regulated mods will stop the discharge at no lower than 3.3V typically and for a good reason.

Baditude has a few great blogs here on battery issues and selection. In a nutshell, never use ICR li-ion cells in a mechanical mod, even if they are protected. IMR and hybrids use safer chemistry which means they will not burn when they vent and they are considered appropriate without protection. That pretty much eliminates the risk of a properly vented mod from exploding. I think you'll find a link to a list of batteries that are safe in Bad's blogs.

ETA: BTW, what is the lowest resistance you think you ever want use for a coil?

I'm researching mechs because i may want to start using drippers. The reason for this is because, even though i get plenty of satisfaction from my rba as it is, it doesn't produce enough vapour for me to be able to reduce my nic level. I figure if i got an rda i could produce a larger volume of vapour, whilst at the same time i could significanty reduce the amount of nicotine i'd be using, so i'd only need something like 6mg. Right now i use 36mg and it works just fine but obviously with larger volumes of vapour less nicotine is required. I hope that makes sense to you, but to answer you question, i think, from what i've read here in ecf, a coil of about 0.8 or 0.9 would be about right.

 

[Thrasher]

i see the point but not really in a sense the same could be said about home depot letting me buy a high powered nail gun or the nailer that uses 22 caliber charges to set nails in concrete, no one askes if i have any idea what i am doing when i buy a box of 22 charges and it could easily blow a hole in your hand or injure someone, as with all things the risk is with the users. same holds true with high powered flashlights running 18650's if it blows up its your fault for not learning how to use the product safely.

and sadly the trend in most cases with vaping shops is easy money, not advancing vaping.

 

[Ryedan]

So isn't this an aspect of the vaping world that could be considered, by the regulators, as dangerous ?.

I believe this is an important issue that has not been addressed yet and needs to be. Much as I hate government regulation, this is probably the only way it's going to improve. IMO, it does not however affect vaping as does for example the perceived safety of the practice, it's only hardware related and would, I hope, become regulated as such.

 

[evan le'garde]

i see the point but not really in a sense the same could be said about home depot letting me buy a high powered nail gun or the nailer that uses 22 caliber charges to set nails in concrete, no one askes if i have any idea what i am doing when i buy a box of 22 charges and it could easily blow a hole in your hand or injure someone, as with all things the risk is with the users. same holds true with high powered flashlights running 18650's if it blows up its your fault for not learning how to use the product safely.

and sadly the trend in most cases with vaping shops is easy money, not advancing vaping.

The thing with flashlights though is that the power is being used by an l.e.d or bulb which is or has been passed as safe to use with any battery. The difference with that, and using a mech mod with home made coils, is the home made coils can damage the battery because they are never always the same as opposed to l.e.d's. Am i wrong or is that about right ?.

 

[Ryedan]

I'm researching mechs because i may want to start using drippers. The reason for this is because, even though i get plenty of satisfaction from my rba as it is, it doesn't produce enough vapour for me to be able to reduce my nic level. I figure if i got an rda i could produce a larger volume of vapour, whilst at the same time i could significanty reduce the amount of nicotine i'd be using, so i'd only need something like 6mg. Right now i use 36mg and it works just fine but obviously with larger volumes of vapour less nicotine is required. I hope that makes sense to you, but to answer you question, i think, from what i've read here in ecf, a coil of about 0.8 or 0.9 would be about right.

I believe that you would reduce your juice nicotine content, but that's because you will be vapoprizing more juice per inhale (and obviously more juice per day), so your nicotine use per day will still be about the same. I've got no data on this, just my opinion.

If you don't go below those resistances, I recommend one of the 18650 IMR or hybrid batteries that have a 10A max continuous draw and have higher mAh ratings. I think you can get up to 2900 mAh or so. I would also use a fuse. That will eliminate the risk of a hard short causing your battery to vent.

 

[el Jexican]

You'll be able to tell when your battery needs to be changed. I notice and change mine around 3.7-3.8 volts.

 

[Ryedan]

The thing with flashlights though is that the power is being used by an l.e.d or bulb which is or has been passed as safe to use with any battery. The difference with that, and using a mech mod with home made coils, is the home made coils can damage the battery because they are never always the same as opposed to l.e.d's. Am i wrong or is that about right ?.

Torches can also short or you can over draw the battery and cause them to explode with the wrong battery. The big difference compared to PVs IMO is they will never explode in your mouth.

 

[evan le'garde]

I believe this is an important issue that has not been addressed yet and needs to be. Much as I hate government regulation, this is probably the only way it's going to improve. IMO, it does not however affect vaping as does for example the perceived safety of the practice, it's only hardware related and would, I hope, become regulated as such.

Right, so taking a step back and looking at the vaping world on the whole it would appear perfectly safe. It's only when you look at this particular detail that you see there is a health and safety issue. Maybe this is something the regulators and concerned government departments are looking at closely. And maybe someone that represents the vaping comunity should take a look at it and decide to agree with the government that some standards should be imposed in this area.

 

[evan le'garde]

Torches can also short or you can over draw the battery and cause them to explode with the wrong battery. The big difference compared to PVs IMO is they will never explode in your mouth.

Ok. i didn't realise that. I thought they'd be perfectly ok.

 

[Thrasher]

yes but with the high powered torches the bulb may be rated to work with whatever battery but the actual led driver needs the correct set up so if home depot sells me a torch fire deluxe with a 20 amp driver circuit (or whatever) it is my job to understand what im buying and what i need to do correctly to be safe.


head over to the flashlight forums and check out pics from when torches explode from crap batteries, pretty scary stuff.

vaping is in its wild west stage, and thats the part that scares the Govt. nic is still a chemical with addictive and poisonous properties, batterys both ego and high drain are coming out of the wood work and everything is all over the place. this is enough to scare any regulating agency. the only thing we can do at this point is what we keep doing.

form our own agendas
make sure juice makers adhere to some kind of standards
try to make sure people follow guidelines and not get stupid.

so far most of the problems have been from prebuilt devices and i am sure they are watching ego manufacturers more then they are us. it is not hard to come here and see the actual hobbyists have their end under control.

now if we can get these idiot B&M's wrapping .3 ohm coils and selling 4 amp batteries with the mod to wake up, there would be a lot less to worry about. and I have no problem with the govt going after those ...... if they wont take the time to teach the customer some safety, explain what they are doing and make sure they understand the risks.