Where does vaping go from here?

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WCSR

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Though, I'm not completely new to e-cigs, having had several over the past few years...I am, however, fairly new to the love of vaping. This is just a written thought of the fate of the ever growing vaping/e-cig industry from a person who has been involved with facets of technological and pharmaceutical industry...and the government's involvement in both. This actually started as a response in another thread, but I then realized that I was hijacking the thread, so I then tried to search for a good thread to put this in, but couldn't really find a thread that involved both the technological and governmental aspects.

To start off, I have devoted the last couple of weeks to finding the best way to take my next step in my vaping lifestyle. I find the time is worth it, because every day I stay on the mission of vaping, is one more day I stay off of analogs. I've been researching 808's, 510's, battery mah as compared to overall size, cartos/clearos/tanks, manuals or automatics, and how they all apply to my personal preferences and the overall preferences of the consuming masses. It's quite overwhelming...but not something I can't understand with ease.

This leads me to the current nagging problem I see with the e-cig industry... Which is too much time spent on what most smokers (looking to make the switch) would consider indecisive and also impractical. Instead of just picking one thing and standardizing parts (so they're interchangeable), and then focusing on making those parts better...even if it slightly increases the buyer's cost for less frustration. Instead, what I see is companies keep trying to reinvent the wheel in order to create their own niche in the market. Over the past few years, I've had three "gas station/pharmacy" e-cigs, and not one of them were interchangeable with the other...or with anything else. Those gas station e-cigs are what smokers go to first when looking to quit the analogs, and when they find that the parts/flavors suck, and there are no other options for them...they go back to smoking because ANY functional lighter will ignite ANY dry cigarette. I bet less then 20% of those that try gas station e-cigs end up finding the large 808/510 market that has so many more interchangeable options....and even then it's overwhelming, indecisive, and impractical. We're still having to mod brand new Nth generation clearomizers (removing silicon seals, fluff wicks, etc.) to keep them from burning, losing taste, losing vapor, etc. Or we're having to throw out cartomizers with almost an ml of juice in it because it just decide to quit functioning. Or we're trying to have to decide between an analog-sized e-cig with crappy battery life, a cigar sized mid-size battery with decent life, or a vv mod that is weird shaped that has looooong battery life and provides many different vaping options. Not to mention the decision between carrying a carto and a bottle, 5 pre-filled cartos, a 2ml clearo, or a Camelback connected to a drip tip (slight over dramatization :)).

However... I'm keeping my faith though, that we as a group can eventually make vaping an easy and viable option for smokers simply looking to quit, and vapers looking to continue vaping. I really only think it's a matter of a couple of years down the road and we'll have 6 hour batteries in the size of a a 78mm X 9mm size for the people wanting lasting fashionable inconspicuous e-cig. I think cartomizers/clearomizers will finally be leak free, wicking fluid at a consistent rate/taste, and coil arrangements will be more efficient, less strain on the battery, and last longer. Just look at how far electronics (cell phones, tablets, etc.) have come in the past two years. The e-cig industry is growing more and more every day, and I can expect the same from it as time goes on. Then bring that to the masses.



Now, for the long term nagging issue... As a guy who has worked avionics/electronics/training/supervision/engineering in the aviation industry for almost 20 years, I've witnessed mass advancement in technology, and I've witnessed, ran from, and interacted with the government intervention on a daily basis. And though I praise the FAA and NTSB for their intervention and contribution to the safety of the industry (my mission is to actually work for one of them some day), their parts and mechanic certification requirements increases the cost 10-fold for the owner/operator of the aircraft. After 9/11, the aviation industry broke down for 2 solid years, and I took a job as a supervisor of manufacturing at a small generic pharmaceutical manufacturing facility, where I then interacted with the FDA on a weekly basis...and they were a pain in the backside (for good reason I guess). Their involvement and requirements, (having several 6-figure-salary licensed Pharm D's on staff, for instance) also increase the cost for the consumer.


In the end, the only REAL problem with vaping is when the government will fully step in and also impose more regulations, such as require licensed Pharm D's to be on staff at e-juice manufacturing facilities. Expect that the better this gets...the more people that will get on board...the more the government is sure to notice and get in on the bandwagon (because they already are). I envision us only being able buy our juices from a select few FDA regulated and approved manufacturers, which will drive the cost through the roof....even if you DYI. The only question is where the government will choose to take its stand in terms of taxation. Will they give breathing room to e-juice manufactures/suppliers because in the end it will decrease the healthcare costs? Or, will they see this as a way to sin-tax something that will cost them less in healthcare, in order to supplement the other things (such as tobacco smoking) that do increase healthcare costs.





If you've made it this far in my post... I actually look forward to hearing from the vaping veterans, who have witnessed the expansion of technological and regulations of vaping over the past few years. I also hope to hear from the newer kats who might also have initial impressions that may sway them one way or another in terms of vaping, smoking, or quitting both all together.
 
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Tokumei

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Interesting look at a nascent industry. I'm not a veteran, but I see a lot of parallels here with what's happening to the book industry (where I work) with the rise of digital formats, book apps, etc.--the new "content" industry. Incompatibility between formats causing frustration, lack of transparency about incompatibility,... full DIY/pv-mod-making is like piracy in some ways, etc.

I don't have any answers, or even much to contribute, but thanks for a thought-provoking read.
 

SazoidX

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Great thread! I'm super new to vaping, but already love it.

I hope that we don't lose the freedom of all the vendors we have now with new regulations, but I figure even if worse comes to worse - quitting vaping (as sad as I would be) would be way easier than quitting smoking.

Hopefully with the large organized community behind vaping we can keep it in our hands a bit longer.
 

OnnaB

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Great read! My brain just can't come up with a good answer right now...lol! I would like to see an easier, all-in-one device. It doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) look like a cigarette, but if it was almost as easy: Open pack, remove e-cig, draw...enjoy! That would draw more newbies, I believe. I don't mind some of the fidgety stuff, but I know a LOT of people that wouldn't consider the current e-cigs. I truly hope the gov't keeps their paws out of this for the time being. IF they find any harm that can come from e-cigs, I KNOW it will never compare to the damage done by cigs....just sayin'.
 

wv2win

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Many people find the disposable gas station models to be great and just use those. And if the government can figure out a way to do it, vaping will be banned anyway. There isn't enough money in vaping and thus taxing for the government to really care unless they could tax it so heavilly that it would kill it. Finding a way to ban it or make it unprofitable is the likely strategy.
 

WCSR

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Many people find the disposable gas station models to be great and just use those. And if the government can figure out a way to do it, vaping will be banned anyway. There isn't enough money in vaping and thus taxing for the government to really care unless they could tax it so heavilly that it would kill it. Finding a way to ban it or make it unprofitable is the likely strategy.
While some people find gas station ecigs to be great for a while, I haven't met anyone over the past several years that have actually stuck with them. Most go back to smoking, a few quit all together...and the rest end up here. Kill it by way of attrition... You make a great point. But the e-cig industry is becoming more and more wide spread every day. Once it's large, begin putting down the regulations, force all the mom and pop operations out...and the cost goes up for us with those e-juice manufacturers that do decide to stay in the game. Then it begins to generate more revenue to tax.


Who really knows where this will all go. All I know is that I don't like the fact that the FDA is looking over our shoulders.
 

radiokaos

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While some people find gas station ecigs to be great for a while, I haven't met anyone over the past several years that have actually stuck with them. Most go back to smoking, a few quit all together...and the rest end up here. Kill it by way of attrition... You make a great point. But the e-cig industry is becoming more and more wide spread every day. Once it's large, begin putting down the regulations, force all the mom and pop operations out...and the cost goes up for us with those e-juice manufacturers that do decide to stay in the game. Then it begins to generate more revenue to tax.


Who really knows where this will all go. All I know is that I don't like the fact that the FDA is looking over our shoulders.

I did not know there was a clone of me in hiding.

Lets see avionics and communications the last 17 years....Check

Background during undergrad in Pharmacology. Started work with the a State Pharmacy Assoc and went on from there.
 

WCSR

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I did not know there was a clone of me in hiding.

Lets see avionics and communications the last 17 years....Check

Background during undergrad in Pharmacology. Started work with the a State Pharmacy Assoc and went on from there.
lol The pharmaceutical company I worked for was in Arizona.


They say everyone has a twin out there. We might just be fraternal. :laugh:
 

radiokaos

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lol The pharmaceutical company I worked for was in Arizona.


They say everyone has a twin out there. We might just be fraternal. :laugh:

What kind of avionics did you work with?

It depends on the agency I work with in aviation but dealing with the local FSDO is not fun. Heck you can call 3 different FSDO's and get 3 different answers.

I was in the Pharmaceutical Industry way back in 93' when they agreed to self regulate for pricing (LOL).

It was political push from the wife of a president back then. Her actions (lack of) changed the whole industry.

If I had to decide who I would rather work with FCC, FDA, FAA it would probably pick the FDA over all the other 3 letter agencies.
 

WCSR

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What kind of avionics did you work with?

It depends on the agency I work with in aviation but dealing with the local FSDO is not fun. Heck you can call 3 different FSDO's and get 3 different answers.

I was in the Pharmaceutical Industry way back in 93' when they agreed to self regulate for pricing (LOL).

It was political push from the wife of a president back then. Her actions (lack of) changed the whole industry.

If I had to decide who I would rather work with FCC, FDA, FAA it would probably pick the FDA over all the other 3 letter agencies.
I've worked with just about any avionics package out there from small GA Garmin "G" and Collins "Proline" systems, all the way through full Boeing 777 systems.

You are correct about FSDOs. I did happen upon a good one when I was in Oklahoma City. I went in there to get my approval for Airframe (based on my work experience). But a few others I've had to deal with couldn't find their a** with both hands.


I also had to deal with the DEA (as I'm sure you also did) while in the pharm biz. The place I was working at mostly made nitro glycerin tablets...but they were working on developing a form of Oxycontin that would lose it's effectiveness if its binders were crushed...in order to keep people from snorting it (looking at you Rush Limbaugh).

With that said, out of the FCC, FDA, DEA, or FAA... I can't tell you which one I'd rather deal with, because they can all be a pain. I can say though, that I believe the FAA and NTSB are two (of just a handful) government agencies that I believe is actually for the better of the people. If not for them, airplanes would be hitting dirt, water, houses, hotels, and apartment complexes on a daily basis.


My wife worked in pharmacy for 6 years, and the moved to the education side of it. She speaks of the FDA and DEA like Christians speak of the devil. :laugh:
 

AttyPops

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Well, I don't want to get into the government love/hate thing. As far as the tech goes...

The next major leap isn't going to be a gadget. It's going to be a technology. Battery technology to be specific. The labs already have 10x storage capacity Li-Ion batteries. Either using nano-tech or other-tech, they can get 10x performance out of them. Heck, it's been in the labs for 2 years now. It's not mainstream yet.

Cell phones, laptops, cars, etc all benefit from this. IDK what's taking it so long, but it may be hard to mass produce. Anyway, imagine a standard 510 or 808 e-cig with 10x the storage. So a standard 510 would be 1800 mAh. Or maybe 900 mAh and 5 volts. All in a cig sized unit. Add a "twisty" vv adjustment and you have a great PV.

Cartos... who knows. I'd love to see ultrasonic stuff or some form of better atty/carto.

Here's hoping.
 

DaveP

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There will be more regulation in the industry as it grows. The more people who vape, the more the FDA will step in and monitor the industry. I see juice vendors that don't grow with the regulated industry falling by the wayside. We have a number of juice vendors operating out of houses on a low budget. Those will grow and conform or die on the vine.

The result will probably be a cleaner, more effective product with competition dictating quality. There's too much variation in flavor at this point. I see Lorillard taking Blu to a level where they produce juices that taste just like the cigarette brands that people want. I see them producing a product that parallels the jelly bean market with flavors that burst instead of the bland tastes we have heretofore experienced. They have the chemists and the labs to dig deep into what creates that experience for the user.

I predict better atomization of liquids with better carto design using high tech fillers and wicking. Maybe there will be atomization and delivery methods we haven't yet thought about in terms of producing the perfect vape.

On the down side, I see controls on nic levels, juice contents, vapor content, and medical testing of the effects on the body. That is all good. We want to know that our vape is as safe as it can be, while satisfying our taste requirements and providing the flavor experience we want. I certainly don't want to see innovation come to a halt and I don't want our hobby under so much control that it all becomes bland and unappealing. Right now, there's a new ecig coming out every few weeks. Buying up of the hardware patents could put the design and development stage into the hands of a few, thus tying the hands of the many. There could come a day when all ecigs look alike and new designs are squashed before they hit the market to stifle competition. That would be a detrimental change in the business, but it will probably happen eventually.
 
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tj99959

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    The goal of any government agency is to justify their existence, they produce nothing. So I would think that we will only see them affect safety and health issues. The Lorillard/Blu issue is debatable, and who really knows at this point. They might just sit on those licensing rights or they may take marketing to a whole new level. I think actual R&D from them is a pipe dream.
    In the future we will see small refinements in existing technology, but it will take new technologies to move much beyond where we are now. We are already seeing changes for no other reason than for the sake of change.
     
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    SpyderBite

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    The technology can only get better. So, I'm not too concerned about the direction that its going.

    I am, however, concerned about possible regulation over juices. I don't want to be limited to a handful of vendors selling prefilled cartridges because the government started regulating all the home mixers out of business. :p
     

    DC2

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    If you want the view of veteran vapers who have been in the trenches, check out these subforums...
    Legislation News
    Media and General News

    In my personal opinion we will see the following happen...

    1) Lorillard/Blu will continue to aggressively pursue the mass market, making vaping easier and more satisfying for Joe Blow
    2) More Big Tobacco entities will join the fray, and competition will drive the above further and faster
    3) A full-on battle with Big Pharma will ensue, and I have no freaking idea how that will play out

    NOTE: When I say Big Pharma, I also include the anti-smoking organizations, who are the ground troops for Big Pharma

    Things that I see potentially happening as we move forward...

    1) Much improved entry-level options from the likes of Blu and other Big Tobacco entrants
    2) Strict regulation of nicotine juice to hinder the juices mixers

    I believe that APVs will fly under the radar, and will always be available.
    And I believe that our main concern will eventually be the availability of various juice options to go with those APVs.


    And of course, I must end this post with a plea to all vapers who care about the future of vaping...
    --Top priority is to join CASAA, which costs you nothing
    --Donate to CASAA what you can, when you can

    CASAA is our last great hope.
    They are a grass-roots organization that fights for us.

    In fact, they ARE us.
    :thumb:
     
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