Where is Henry Ford?

[Memphis Weirdo]

All throughout history, whenever a revolutionary invention comes around, it always seems to start out the same way. At first, all of the fly-by-night "little guys" come out with their own variations that are unproven and unsupported. The entire industry stumbles around like a toddler until someone pops up to tie it all together.

With the automobile, it wasn't until Henry Ford provided the Model T that cars became affordable and reliable. They were suddenly within the reach of the average person, and the quality did not let anyone down. Parts were readily available, and every mechanic in the country soon knew everything there was to know about working on them. The Model T was the standard for quality and practical efficiency, and the pretenders were quickly driven out.

So, my question... Where is the Henry Ford of the e-cigarette?

To me, the e-cig is a miracle. Since my last failed attempt, I never thought that I would ever successfully quit smoking. BUT... as soon as I fired up my first e-cig (9 days ago), I quit cigarettes at that moment... without any problems or cravings. I know that there are many who haven't had the instant success that I had, but there are tons of people who have quit via this method. In my opinion, the e-cigarette should be on the cover of Time, Newsweek and every major newspaper. Yet, it remains relatively obscure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like every e-cig device (except for boutique mods) is made in China. I've heard too many stories about problems with quality control. The engineering evolution seems to be flying by the seat of its pants. And worst of all, no one in the United States seems to be stepping into the picture to take a shot at perfecting it.

Why?

Is the federal government standing in the way... either directly or indirectly? Is the government so concerned with figuring out a way to demonize the product and practice, all for the purpose of setting it up for a future squeeze-attack of taxes, that the potential entrepreneur is scared away? Is the FDA wielding an iron fist over the potential involvement of any US companies?

It's hard for me to understand why the e-cig hasn't been perfected, and made its way onto the shelves of every single retailer in the United States. Where is the Model T of e-cigarettes?

All of you guys who have been tuned into this issue for a while, please lend me some insight.

 

[CBB]

I think the government or the fear of the government has a part, but I believe the biggest factor is labor cost, its hard to compete with slave labor.

Most mods are USA made, and some vendors have high specs that must be met for their imported products. The vendors that will accept out of spec parts at a lower price lead to the problems we have with early failure of parts.

 

[Gestalt]

Well, I'm a relatively new e-cig user and I'm wondering the same thing. I'm torn on the issue though. I like spending my money at small businesses. I'm not convinced that a modern day large corporation would be able to do it right. In my mind, the closest thing that we have for that would be NJoy. They provide a solid and reliable experience, but it is over priced and mediocre.

There are strides being made to improve things. The Darwin and Provari were good steps forward and I suspect that the Eclipse Eq will move the state of the art a bit further in the right direction when it comes out. But its not a model T yet as the prices are too high.

I agree that we need to get cracking on solutions to some of the usability issues with these devices. I'm currently trying to come up with a better atomizer/feed system. It is difficult to come up with something that will actually work really well. I would like to see thermoelectric heaters and temperature feedback being used, but I haven't come up with an arrangement that would work and doesn't use depleted uranium dioxide (I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be a good idea). I'm thinking that it just isn't that easy to fix all of the problems in an economical way.

In my opinion, the e-cigarette should be on the cover of Time, Newsweek and every major newspaper. Yet, it remains relatively obscure.

I'm with you on that. I really wish I had known about it earlier. I found out about it from an online ad from Blu.... We need to get some lawyers to force tobacco companies to pay for e-cig advertisements instead of just tacking more warning labels on the box. I saw it the first time.

 

[Hoosier]

Well, you did make me laugh.

At that moment in time you're speaking of Coke was called coke because of the now illegal drug that was in it. There was no EPA, no FDA, very few anti-x crowds writing legislation for law makers to pass with a media blitz concocted by anti-x so the pol-tick looks good and gets more votes. (it did exist back then, but it was more subtle.)

Why would I risk my money to buy equipment, hire workers, and raise a plant when the FDA, AMA, ACS, and a host of letters has been fighting against it before they even knew what it is? The concept would even make Tucker call it financial suicide.

And that is not even getting into the patent lawsuits that fly around constantly in this day and age.

 

[Tracker II]

Yah, and not to mention the fact that the day ecigs get national publicity and threaten to become mainstream will be the day the tobacco lobby will pay off congress (with big campaign contributions) to outlaw them. To make these laws appear reasonable, news will first be flooded with "studies" (secretly funded by big tobacco) showing how nightmarishly dangerous ecigs are. No thanks, keep all this as much under the radar for as long as possible if you ask me.

 

[Gestalt]

So, scared of the government that we don't want people to know about a life saving device in case they take it away from us and kill us by proxy. What a great country we live in. When is version 2.0 coming out?

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Yah, and not to mention the fact that the day ecigs get national publicity and threaten to become mainstream will be the day the tobacco lobby will pay off congress (with big campaign contributions) to outlaw them. To make these laws appear reasonable, news will first be flooded with "studies" (secretly funded by big tobacco) showing how nightmarishly dangerous ecigs are. No thanks, keep all this as much under the radar for as long as possible if you ask me.

That's probably spot on.

 

[Dario]

Innovation has been greatly affected by corporations, patent laws and bureaucracy. Today's innovation can be found in the form of "DIY" as well as some Open Source platform. But where are the great inventions? Just like Henry Ford.... dead and buried. BTW, Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile. Who invented the auto is a long list... but who defined and invented the modern automobile is Karl Benz. He's the real inventor. Ford just did the first assembly line.

 

[Tracker II]

So, scared of the government that we don't want people to know about a life saving device in case they take it away from us and kill us by proxy. What a great country we live in. When is version 2.0 coming out?

You are missing the point entirely. It's not being scared of the government but rather seeing how large corporations control our government with large campaign contributions that smaller entities simply cannot match.

Your comment about not wanting people to know about a lifesaving device is even more off the mark. Did you even take time to ponder my post? The very nature of it is that I want vaping to succeed (and therefore save more lives) and the best way to do it is to keep it off big tobacco's and the government radar as much as possible so that efforts aren't made to totally outlaw it. Jeesh!

 

[Nicko]

Yah, and not to mention the fact that the day ecigs get national publicity and threaten to become mainstream will be the day the tobacco lobby will pay off congress (with big campaign contributions) to outlaw them. To make these laws appear reasonable, news will first be flooded with "studies" (secretly funded by big tobacco) showing how nightmarishly dangerous ecigs are. No thanks, keep all this as much under the radar for as long as possible if you ask me.

This statement is based on ignorance. Please see the vast amount of info on the news and legislation areas of this forum.

Big tobacco are not and have never been anti-e-cigs. The biggest e-cig opponents are the FDA and the so-called health groups who basically work for the big pharma companies who see e-cigs as direct competition to their useless but highly profitable nicotine replacement products, NRT, such as the patch and gum.

The tobacco companies are showing understandable interest in marketing their own line of e-cig products.

Big tobacco is certainly not the enemy in this case. And we can choose to buy their new products or not. Simple. They are already selling smokeless snus and dissovable tobacco products that are much, much safer than smoking.

 

[Tracker II]

Thanks for the info Nicko. If that is true, then my statements truly were based on ignorance.

So would I be safe in replacing the words Big Pharma in place of tobacco companies? After all, they are one of the biggest lobby groups in Washington.

 

[Hoosier]

Big Pharma is a force. If you want to have real fun, just look at J&J and their money flow to the groups that oppose e-cigs.

 

[Gestalt]

You are missing the point entirely. It's not being scared of the government but rather seeing how large corporations control our government with large campaign contributions that smaller entities simply cannot match.

Your comment about not wanting people to know about a lifesaving device is even more off the mark. Did you even take time to ponder my post? The very nature of it is that I want vaping to succeed (and therefore save more lives) and the best way to do it is to keep it off big tobacco's and the government radar as much as possible so that efforts aren't made to totally outlaw it. Jeesh!

Yea I can see your point whether it is really big tobacco, big pharma, or someone else that's doing the buying. The problem for me is that the government shouldn't be for sale and the fact that it is (or appears to be) makes it so that we have to keep under the radar. And by doing so, fewer people will learn of it. I agree that in the real world, it is possible that keeping out of sight will save more lives. My point was that our system is screwed and that it is costing lives.

BTW, I didn't mean for my last post to be an attack on you. When I reread it, sounds like it could be. I apologize if it came across that way.

 

[Nicko]

Thanks for the info Nicko. If that is true, then my statements truly were based on ignorance.

So would I be safe in replacing the words Big Pharma in place of tobacco companies? After all, they are one of the biggest lobby groups in Washington.

Big pharma and the so-called health groups are a far more destructive force than any tobacco company. They are against e-cigs. Big tobacco is not. So, yes. Just replace big tobacco with big pharma. Then you will be right on track with the actual facts.

 

[Gristle]

This statement is based on ignorance. Please see the vast amount of info on the news and legislation areas of this forum.

Big tobacco are not and have never been anti-e-cigs. The biggest e-cig opponents are the FDA and the so-called health groups who basically work for the big pharma companies who see e-cigs as direct competition to their useless but highly profitable nicotine replacement products, NRT, such as the patch and gum.

The tobacco companies are showing understandable interest in marketing their own line of e-cig products.

Big tobacco is certainly not the enemy in this case. And we can choose to buy their new products or not. Simple. They are already selling smokeless snus and dissovable tobacco products that are much, much safer than smoking.

This would mean we should be looking to Phillip Morris or RJR to be the Henry Ford of e-cigs. It would make sense, they have deep pockets, political connections, and the most important piece, an established presence and relationships with the retail channel.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Author's Note: Some of what appears below may not be directly commented on in this thread, but may be touched upon here and is oft found elsewhere in this forum. Thank you for the opprotunity for expression.

I'm not convinced that American related tobacco interests aren't involved in our realm of interest. Like Japan after WWII, much of what has happened in China over the past couple of decades has been stimulated by direct American and other countries input.

Former President Nixon opened the doors to trade with China. American business interests were involved with the development and industrialization following that. China didn't, all on its, walk out of the fields and into the cities and factories. Given the size of the Chinese market, I have no reason to believe that traditional tobacco interests didn't go to China with the others. From the looks of things, they have been quite successful with their efforts in getting the Chinese people to adopt tobacco use.

Example: Levono computers. Levono is the company that obtained IBM's personal computing interests. Was Levono a homegrown Chinese enterprise? Levono was created by IBM. As well, it continues to be managed by IBM.

You might wonder why, if more sophisticated interests are behind the blossoming of Chinese productions why we find sometimes inferior products and literature that doesn't quite come across in English. "Give a man a fish... Teach a man to fish..." Like any worthwhile endeavor, learning to fish takes a little time and effort.

I can remember after WWII when Japanese products were something of a joke...toys in pressed tin and such. Those interests grew to scare the pants off of American manufacturing and today remain top quality and have virtually replaced much of the American electronics industry. I have no reason to believe this won't happen similarly with China. I have little problem supporting China as the major manufacturing center for the world. It is not yet clear what other areas will be major competitors, but there are certainly some interesting products coming out of Southeast Asia and India.

Would I support American mass products? If the price and value can be there, there is no reason not to. Is the government really trying to quash our little realm of pleasure? Not in any grand scheme of things. Some health interests may be concerned, but I seriously doubt there is any overarching effort to stymie our little nicotine-centric activities, whether by government or Big Tobacco.

What does Chinese production do for American industrial efforts? Among other things it allows them to produce profitably and from behind a mask that keeps them away from public scrutiny.

Before we next villainize Big Tobacco and and illude to governement conspriacies, realize who is feeding our needs.

 

[Nicko]

This would mean we should be looking to Phillip Morris to be the Henry Ford of e-cigs. It would make sense, they have deep pockets, political connections, and the most important piece, an established presence and relationships with the retail channel.

Well, yeah, I guess you are right. If Phillip Morris decide to market e-cigs (and they almost certainly will) some time soon, what's the problem? We can choose or not choose to buy their product.

 

[Eddie.Willers]

My 2c worth

The analogy with Henry Ford is specious - it seems good on the surface but historical fact tells a different story.

When Ford applied the principles of Scientific Management (or 'Taylorism') to vehicle manufacture, he was merely following the footsteps of Ransom Olds. Ford's idea was to commodify the automobile by making it affordable for his workers - but this meant a limited range of options (hence the famous 'Any color you want so long as its black') - and so increase desirability by simplifying the finished product to where it became an appliance - simple and cheap to operate, effective at what it does but capable of being customized. A similar thing has happened to personal computers in the latter part of the 20th century.

With smoking, I think the tide turned many years ago in the developed nations and set into place the social stigma of tobacco smoking. Although vaping could (and should) replace this nicotine-intake method, I do not believe the e-cig will ever become a mass-market, commodified 'appliance' - its very complexity, as a device, puts people off and, as others have said, the regulatory atmosphere will prevent the market growth.

 

[Tracker II]

BTW, I didn't mean for my last post to be an attack on you. When I reread it, sounds like it could be. I apologize if it came across that way.

No problemo, we are all here for the same purpose; to learn, to get support, and to support others. So vape on my friend.