Who's liable when Vape Mail is lost?

[Amnesia1187]

So I ordered around $60 in juice from a vendor (I'm not going to name them for now as I'm still waiting to see how the situation plays out) that was scheduled to be delivered on 9/5/13.

The tracking shows that on 9/5/13 the package was in my city and out for delivery, and then nothing. There is 1 update after that that only says "Delivery Status Not Updated".

Over the weekend I emailed the vendor to let them know that the package might get returned to sender as I had yet to see it and because it looked like the Zip Code was wrong (I later found out the one on the tracking is the PO Box zipcode for my area). The vendor responded confirming that the Zip Code was correct on the label (by sending me a picture of my order receipt, not a copy of the label) and they weren't sure what happened.

I called the post office on Monday and they couldn't locate the package on site and were going to wait for the mail carrier to get back and call me back. No call. Called again this morning, they looked again, couldn't find it, this time the mail carrier was there, apparently he was not in last Friday, so he thought it might have ended up in the Parcel Lockers in my building and I had just not gotten the key, he was supposed to check, and call me back. No call. (Though I did receive my ProVari in the mail today, so I know there was a delivery).

At this point I email the vendor as I am now thinking the package is lost. From the tracking I know the package had $50 in insurance and definitely doesn't show being delivered. I ask them what I need to do to get a replacement order sent out, and how long they usually wait to do the insurance claim with USPS. They respond, "The shipping price does not include insurance, but if it gets set back we will let you know".

So now I'm a bit ...... off, as while it's possible it's just a misunderstanding, it seems to me that they are not going to replace the order and can still claim the insurance if the package is never found. I'm not sure if the listed insurance is just a mistake in the tracking system or if they used it on accident, but regardless, I just feel like this is crappy service. I'm not sure what I should do. I really don't want to file a charge back, as all I really want is what I paid for, but I also don't want to be out $60 for absolutely nothing.

All the threads I can find where mail has been lost in the past indicate that the Vendor more or less immediately offered to replace the order, but I'm not sure if that's standard, or if I'm expecting to much. Anyone have any experience with lost packages and how they worked out?

 

[Rickajho]

You're throwing out a lot of "it depends." I don't know where you got your info that the package had $50.00 in insurance coverage. If it was sent Parcel Post rate there is no insurance on it unless it was paid for as an extra. USPS tracking is not a science and they screw up. A lot. The package could take several weeks to be found by USPS and may still reach you. Like I said - not a science - stuff goes wandering off to all sorts of unexplained places in USPSville all the time in Boston. They neither explain the screw ups or apologize for them either.

If the package is still showing as "out for delivery" it's unlikely any vendor will do anything yet. Technically, there is nothing to dispute as USPS isn't claiming they delivered it yet. If it did go wandering to an incorrect zip code - yeah, USPS does that sort of thing - it will get to you. But it takes several days to a week or more before the DOH! sets in and USPS get the package back on path.

Some vendors warn you that if you don't pay for insurance they are under no liability to replace lost packages. Some will do it as a courtesy, but only after a reasonable time has passed and from their end of things they have received confirmation from USPS that the package was lost by them. Pushing the issue too hard or too soon only ruffles feathers.

 

[Amnesia1187]

I got my info that the package has $50 in insurance from this:



As for the zipcode, I should clarify, the Zipcode I see in the tracking has a different last digit, but they confirmed that this zipcode is ALSO routed to the same post office. My Provari shows the same zipcode in tracking right up til delivery. I just was unaware that it might show a different zipcode in tracking.

 

[DoogieTony]

Any way you look at it, its not the vendors fault. They sent you what you paid for.

 

[Amnesia1187]

Any way you look at it, its not the vendors fault. They sent you what you paid for.

So you are saying a vendor should be able to send a package, charge me, get it insured, and then if it gets lost they can claim the insurance, keep my money, and not replace the product so I get nothing?

 

[DoogieTony]

So you are saying a vendor should be able to send a package, charge me, get it insured, and then if it gets lost they can claim the insurance, keep my money, and not replace the product so I get nothing?

Well, so far only the first 2 have definitely happened. Chill and see how things shake out.
I very much doubt a vendor banks on packages being lost to pull a insurance scam.

 

[Amnesia1187]

Well, so far only the first 2 have definitely happened. Chill and see how things shake out.
I very much doubt a vendor banks on packages being lost to pull a insurance scam.

I never said they were trying to pull a scam, and I think I'm being pretty chill, I'm not sitting around posting the company's name and raging. I'm just trying to get some information as this is the first package I've ever had get lost. So I was curious about other people's experiences and what I should expect.

Also, I never asked who was at fault, I asked who was liable, and there is a very big difference. I'm fairly certain that packages lost in the mail are covered under the Fair Credit Billing Act.

 

[BigBen2k]

A chargeback is one of the worse things you can do. It'll get you blacklisted in places you can't even imagine.

First, you need to find out the terms of the sale, from the vendor. Either he refunds you, or let's you file a claim with USPS, but it's usually the first, assuming he's not sending you a replacement. That's because the claimant usually has to be the shipper.

Either way, you'll have to wait for USPS to sort it out, even if it takes a while. I ordered something from PA once, and USPS must have had it jammed between a couple of conveyors, because it took 5 weeks. I had my refund way before that.

 

[bikerbeagle]

So you are saying a vendor should be able to send a package, charge me, get it insured, and then if it gets lost they can claim the insurance, keep my money, and not replace the product so I get nothing?

Well, this is a bit of a conspiracy theory, isn't it? I mean, sure, it's possible ...but, seriously, what's the upside for them to do that? Businesses don't stay in business very long by screwing over their customers.

My take is that this is all on the Post Office at this point. Rather than call them (it's easy to say anything over the phone), go there and see what you need to do to file an official complaint, lost/undelivered item. An insurance claim can't be filed on lost mail prior to 30 days, so that's not even an option for you right now (or for the seller since they are, in fact the ones who will need to file the claim).

 

[jb80]

The delivery service is liable for any mix up and it is up to the vendor to sort it out and not you.
The vendor should of been chasing up the post office and making sure the delivery happened.

I've just been through a similar situation where the delivery company for one reason or another couldn't find my house. Although they had said they have been twice and nobody was home. If they had knocked on somebodies door then it wasn't mine and I didn't receive any slip for the mail box.
When I told the vendor didn't seem to really care and told me to contact the company, which is something I legally shouldn't be doing as my contract is with the vendor not the delivery company. They also had the wrong phone number and that's where it got complicated as I have just moved to Spain and they said they wouldn't call a non Spanish number. Which is a load of bollocks again from a legal stand point.

The vendor eventually after some pushing contacted them and said they would try to deliver again and supposedly should of corrected the phone number.
Status updates show they came(they didn't), tried ringing two different phone numbers(none of which were mine) and gave up. Another couple of days later they returned the package to the vendor and at that point I for the second time asked for a refund and got it two days later again.

The end result being two weeks later I'm still waiting for my juice but at least this time I'm more confident in a using a trusted vendor.

Sorry for the rant but I needed it.

Tl;dr: Your contract is with the vendor only and only deal with them, the vendors contract is with the delivery company/post.
Just wait until they receive it back and get your refund then.
Of course though I'm talking about the EU, who knows what sort of laws you in the US might have.

 

[BigBen2k]

It works the same in the US.

The only exception is with commercial deliveries contracted as F.O.B. (Freight On Board) which discharges the vendor as soon as the shipment leaves the dock.

 

[Rickajho]

It works the same in the US.

The only exception is with commercial deliveries contracted as F.O.B. (Freight On Board) which discharges the vendor as soon as the shipment leaves the dock.

That would be Freight On Bill.

 

[Rickajho]

Ok, I don't know where the problem is between your tracking saying it was sent 2nd day with insurance and with the vendor say "no it don't." Did you pay for 2nd day service? That normally costs extra.

Regardless, it's up to the vendor to file the claim with USPS as the party who shipped it. You may have paid for the cost of the insurance, but the contract is between the shipper and USPS. In other words, you can't file a claim.

I don't know how you approached this with the vendor. Did you ask nice questions? Or did you barge in making demands? (One approach works better than the other...) If the relationship is now "closed" with the vendor all you will be able to do is request a charge back through your credit card, citing non receipt of merchandise as the reason. They can either reship, or more likely issue a refund and close your account with them to future orders if the conversation went badly.

If you still want the merchandise I would strongly urge you to see if the party that actually screwed up - USPS - comes through with the delivery. In the greater scheme of USPS muck ups, this hasn't even got into one week past the delivery date. Give it at least until the end of next week before doing anything else.

 

[ephemerata]

I really wish there were some industry-wide standards for how small companies need to deal with things like this. I'm sorry you're going through this. The responses here make it sound like you're ridiculous for being worried about your package, but I really don't blame you at all.

I'm not sure where people are getting information about having to wait for a delivery scan on the package to file a claim or having to wait 30 days. There are many types of disputes that can be made on a package -- misdelivery (delivered to the wrong address or signed for under direct signature by someone at the household not authorized to sign for the package), lost in transit (article lost by the shipment company), or damaged delivery. You don't have to wait for a "Delivered" scan to consider something lost, only to consider something misdelivered. LIT claims can be made against the package. You should be able to file a claim within 21-180 days for Priority Mail according to USPS if your item has insurance. Unfortunately, the claims ARE for the shipper, as technically they would be reimbursed for the package. They would need to include the mailing receipt to provide evidence of insurance as well as the invoice for the items purchased.

This does put the onus on them to follow up on a lost in transit item. You could also call USPS to clarify if a LIT claim can be made earlier than 21 days.

I guess I'm unclear on what they told you about the insurance -- did they say that the package doesn't have it? "The shipping price doesn't include insurance,"? That shouldn't matter. You placed your order and they have charged you with the expectation that you will receive goods in exchange for legal tender. Could you write back and ask them to confirm if there is insurance on the package? It may be important to set your own terms here because it doesn't sound like they've been communicative. I would ask for a yes or no answer, and then explain to them that according to the package's tracking information it does have insurance on it, which would entitle them to file a claim after 21 days with no delivery, and you should be entitled to a refund as well. Have they advised you how they'll proceed if your package isn't delivered?

I believe you could also have your CC company issue a chargeback. That's your right as a consumer to settle a debt with a merchant, and I wouldn't let anyone scare you with talks of blacklisting. I mean, if a situation escalates to the point where a chargeback is appropriate, I wouldn't order from that company again anyway. You'd probably want to check with your bank to see what their timeframe is on a chargeback for a shipped item.

Good luck!

 

[williebb123]

if the tracking never says delivered just sit tight, i had 2 packages sent from maryland to california package #1 sent on wed. and package #2 sent fri. package #1 was a no show but Package #2 got here in 7 days my tracking on #1 said it would be 7 days after it past said date it showed no expected delivery date it finally arrived in 14 days ... , the only thing i could think maybe the truck was involved in a wreck and that was the delay hope your package showes up soon

 

[Brusky]

Unless giving a negative feedback i don't see why you can't name the vendor.

If your shipment got sent to the wrong checkpoint, your package should get corrected at its next scan in.

There is no contract between the seller and USPS and you, unless stated. If the seller has the invoice showing the shipment being made the buyer would be at loss and would have to take it up with USPS. But the risk of gaining bad PR a good vendor will usually take the loss. If the seller had protected themselves by insuring your package, you will still have to take it up with USPS, but will have an easier time gaining a reversal charge or reshipment sent out to you by the seller.

But until you receive that final delivery notice, this is all a moot point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[SissySpike]

I have better luck when I go to the post office in person. Ive been threw this and once the package was returned several weeks later and once it showed up a few days later at me address.

It sucks and is frustrating but IMO if the vendor shipped with the correct address then they provided the service I payed them for. If you aproch them with a hostile attitude I doubt they will do much to help you. I would just reorder the juice fill out a ticket at the post office and in days- Weeks the package will most likely show up.

 

[grandmato5]

Your vendor did not purchase insurance on your package. They may not be aware that priority mail comes with limited $50 insurance IF certain conditions are met when they mail the package. While it would seem that the blurb on your tracking info says your package has this limited insurance NEVER believe everything you read on that tracking screen.

Unfortunately once a package leaves a vendors hands there's a major lack of responsibility by the USPS for that package getting to its destination as it should. Even with any insurance there are hoops that have to be gone through which are both time consuming and frustrating for anyone with a "lost" package to have a chance to have insurance reimburse them. Most packages do eventually end up showing up but that can take forever. If they don't then IF one has insurance the hoops have to be followed to have a chance to get reimbursed. If you have no insurance then the vendor is not responsible and the customer is simply out of luck.

 

[vernhall]

In my experience, for what little it's worth, I never assume insurance is included in the shipping cost unless it is very clearly stipulated on the dealer's website. I always assume that it is up to me to purchase insurance as an option. And, even then, just because you've purchased the 'optional' insurance it doesn't mean that it's going to be honored immediately -- that usually doesn't happen until after the delivery service has run through their error checking confirmation process...

 

[RobinBanks]

No comment on the vendor response, but I just had juice mailed out to me priority mail 2-day on the 5th. Expected delivery date of the 9th. (I guess Saturday doesn't count for priority mail? whatevs). I followed the tracking and it was scanned at the same damn location 4 days in a row. Now on the 12th, the tracking at least updated to indicate that the package is in my state. Priority Mail 2-day, my .....