Why Do I Have to Steep Juice?

[Jazzman]

I really don't get this. When I was smoking cigars I never had to wait for a cigar to age before smoking. At least a quality cigar. It takes about 5 years for a good cigar to ferment and age, through many different aging processes before it was considered ready for sale. In fact, cigar manufacturers take extreme pride in the quality of their product and being ready to enjoy when you purchase. Even most inexpensive cigars (a hand rolled inexpensive cigar is still a $6 or $7 cigar, glad I'm done with that expense... thanks to vaping) are ready to smoke when you purchase. So what's the deal with juice makers not taking the time to properly age and prepare their juice before sale?

I understand the need to age juice. Marrying of flavors, allowing time for certain flavor profiles to mute while others within a complex juice mature. This makes perfect sense. But isn't this part of the cooking process?

Let face it, juice is fairly expensive at retail level... and there seems to be a very reasonable profit margin for the manufacturer, knowing what we know about the raw material costs. So why do so many recommend that we buy juice and then finish the aging process ourselves. Or are there certain juice cookers that always age their product before shipping and you can count on their juice being ready to vape when you purchase?

I'm very new to this, so excuse my ignorance and I'm probably missing the point, but this just seems odd to me.

 

[Huckleberried]

Many juices are made to order, so steeping is recommended. Some are quite good right away. Custom blended flavors usually improve anywhere from a couple days to a month or so. Everyone's taste is different, so it varies from one person to the next.

 

[Txaggiesaunt]

I try all my juices as soon as I get them & they are freshly mixed. If I don't like one at first, I will put it away for a while and try it again later. You don't have to steep, but juices do get better over time. Good luck & VAPE ON

 

[Jazzman]

Seems to defeat the purpose of trying juices at my local store. They may have had the juice in the trial tank quite a while and the juice they sell you could be completely different based on when the bottles I buy were delivered. <shrug> just seems like a quality control issue. I get if you order a custom blend you may have to age yourself since it was just made for you, but an off the shelf stock flavor I would rather have the same each time without me having to worry about how long it was aged. There should be a general rule for typical aging time for good flavor result I would think. And probably a certain aging time for a stable product that's not likely to change in flavor much from that time forward until maybe it hits age where it starts to deteriorate in flavor. Assuming a reasonable temperature and lighting in your storage area.

Since major brands seem to have a manufacture date on them what would be a good aging time to look for? 1 month? 2? 3? 1 year? Not arguing here at all, just asking because I really have no idea and really appreciate the info. Did some forum searching but didn't really find anything other than if you don't like the taste steep for a while.

I'm getting ready to order some juices, hence the interest.

 

[dspin]

Many juices are made to order, so steeping is recommended. Some are quite good right away. Custom blended flavors usually improve anywhere from a couple days to a month or so. Everyone's taste is different, so it varies from one person to the next.

Above post says it all ++++++++++++++++10 - no further discussion needed on my part

 

[*deleon517*]

General time for steeping can vary by the flavors, or the individual vaping as well. For example the 3 main flavors I do buy are hawk sauce, thug juice and white out. All from mtbakervapor, now I prefer each steeped at a different amount of time. White out I can pretty much vape the moment it lands in my mailbox, hawk sauce I prefer about 2 weeks into steeping and thug juice I like around 1 month.

It pretty can vary from person to person, as everyone's taste buds is different. My wife and I like fruit flavors and menthol's as well. However we don't agree on one set flavor when it comes to steeping. She likes thug juice right out the mail box, that's a 3-4 week difference in steep time compared to my preference. Also I have tried juices like green man's where they do use a steeping method. The flavors arent always consistent using the same flavors.

Most of the time I just mix my own stuff up when I see my juice stash getting to about 25% left. So I don't have a general steeping timeline for my diy.

 

[dangerbrow]

Also, a lot of cats have various methods of steeping juice that they say works best. Some folk like to let a bottle hang out in a jewelry cleaner for a cycle or two and call it good. Other folk like to keep their juice in specific drawer in their house with the caps off and maybe they like to shake it precisely three times a day for 4.5 days and THEN call it good. I don't know, people like their weird methodical practices for vaping/steeping/rebuilding. Can't really say they're wrong, but one could say that there would be no going back to steep a juice "properly" if it were pre-steeped.

Another thing - some juices ARE marketed and sold as pre-steeped. Some of those juices are also in such high demand that the orders catch up and vendors run out of stock of the pre-steeped juice, in which case there are people who will fork over the dough for the not pre-steeped out of fear the product will sell out altogether.


However, you make a fair point, it would be sweet, if a lot of that steeping was already done ahead of time. But like the cats above said, it's so subjective. Like sometimes when you're on the dregs of a 60ml bottle that's been steeping for 3 months, it's not as "fresh" tasting as it once was - meaning, I'd have to bite the bad price point and buy a smaller bottle of that juice to make up for the increased volume of "dreg juice". But that's not all juice in my opinion - just some - it would bring up a new set of steeping variables.
That said, sometimes I do have to adjust to that. I've ordered juice from second party vendors and incidentally, it has been.on their shelf steeping for a month or three. Sometime this is a nice surprise, and other times I wonder if that juice would have tasted better without as much oxidation - but I won't know until I buy a new bottle since there's no going back ya know?

Hope some of that made sense

 

[Huckleberried]

So, with all that's been shared, if you like the taste of the juice, vape it. Me personally, I buy from the same vendor all the time, therefore, I know when to reorder and what steep works for each. Doesn't mean I don't try out new flavors, but when I do, if I don't care for the taste right away then I set it aside, try again later. There is no set steep method.

 

[Jazzman]

Thanks for the replies everyone. You all make very good points. And I have come to the conclusion it is all voodoo and ritual and no rules apply. It's like a drug addict going through their ritual before shooting up...lol. I know... a bit extreme, and really tongue in cheek. Please read as joking, not serious.

What I do mean though is that when I hear I let this brand steep 3 weeks in an old gym bag with a 20 year old pair of Jordan Converse, the bottle top loosened 1/2 turn, and sitting on my lucky penny (or whatever ritual is followed) it doesn't consider when the juice was made. If it was made 2 weeks ago that's a 1 month steep. If it was made 2 months ago that is a 10 week steep. But folks seem to follow the same ritual regardless. Or how the juice was made (manufacturer got a new plastic teaspoon from Walmart to measure with). Although to be fair, the same absorption of old gym bag for 2 weeks occurred in all cases . And I do understand that for the same product, aged the same amount, some would prefer a bit more aging. Fair enough. But that would still need to consider the original time of aging before purchase by the consumer to be even mildly similar. Unless there is a certain point that flavors become more stable and further aging will not make a noticeable change. And yes I know that voltage, device, wattage, etc. are all factors affecting flavor also. But those should be constants (assuming good equipment maint.) that would alter a given flavor. So I'm not talking about that. That's a whole 'nother subject.

But I guess I have my answer. There is no chemistry research available (or done) that would make this an answerable question. Although with the right research it certainly could be. I mean, hundreds of other things I can think of that have aging periods are very scientific about the process and can be conclusively proved so... and repeated with a very high degree of accuracy. Like wine, cigars, cigarettes, beer, coffee, red bull, campbell's soup, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. I also suspect there are wildly different methodology and equipment used for manufacturing juices that greatly contribute to lack of consistent flavor. That makes sense too. Lack of lab quality, properly calibrated equipment and especially very small batches meaning small errors in recipes that would be insignificant in large batches now become almost a different product. This certainly leads me to want to buy locally and try before I buy and always test first.

So now I get it. This is still basically a cottage industry and half the fun is finding a great flavor with the realization you may never get that same flavor again. And if you reorder a flavor you love and it's different, there are a few things you can try to help, but it's just as likely to make it worse.

 

[IMFire3605]

I'll ask it back at you this way. Do you, straight from the vineyard drink a bottle of wine? Answer in most cases is straight up no. Comparing e-juice to a fine cigar ready to vape is a little narrow viewed, a lot of e-juices have more in common with a fine wine.

You let a fine expensive wine age, and age a bit more, then let it air a bit in a decanter, and then enjoy. Some very complex e-juice flavors follow similar attributes to this, especially freshly made to order vendors. The more complex the flavor the more a fresh bottle needs to steep and "AGE" to allow the flavors in the juice to blend, just in the aging process you let it air first to get alcohols out, then cap and let sit and age, giving it a good shaking now and again, or you can let it soak in dry cup, the cup inside some boiling water or such to accelerate the blending process. The reason for the made to order philosophy of many vendors is the juices are ordered in different nicotine strengths, different PG and VG ratios, maybe an extra flavor shot now and again. To have on hand, already aged liquids for every possible custom mix, they would not have room to store it all. Most of us get into the habit of doing our orders we double one order, steeping the double order at the same time, take one out of that ready to vape, set the other aside to continue steeping, order a new bottle or order, that way by the time we get out next order, the previous batch is ready to use, the new order set aside to age.

hth explain things a bit more.

 

[catalinaflyer]

I get ALL my juice made while I stand there watching at my local B&M shop. Funny thing, when I walk out the door with them they are clear (unless I get coffee or something dark like that). Now by the next morning there's some color starting to show in the juice.

Personally I primarily vape 3 flavors, Red Bull, Spiced Cider and Salted Caramel. The spiced cider is good the next day when the color is yellow. Red Bull on the other hand starts a slight pink and about a month later it's almost neon red and there's no comparing the flavor between a new bottle and a month old bottle. Salted Caramel takes about a week to turn a light caramel color and at that point it's reached it's peak.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Wow... since the better juice makers blend juices to the customers requests ( within reason) to keep all the different PG/VG mixtures, nicotine percentages, flavors ( and flavor strength, I order 2X flavor strength) they would have to keep in stock well over 200 variations per flavor....

 

[Nibiru2012]

As most users of NET-based juices will attest to, these flavors NEED to steep to allow the subtle nuances of flavors to meld together.

PG and VG are very viscous liquids compared to the flavors, extracts and pure grain alcohol. The steeping time is needed in a lot of cases to allow the extracts to intermingle amongst the denser molecules of carrier liquids (such as the PG and VG).

Many users will attest to the fact that using an ultrasonic cleaner device to advance or speed up the steeping time works quite well. Many state that a total of 4 hours ultrasonic time will equate to roughly 4 weeks steeping time.

I do know personally that the NET-based juices I get from GoodEjuice really do improve with steeping such as Vita Bella, Wild Turkey and others. Ahlusion juices also recommend a steeping time also.

I have also found that I get better quality more consistent flavor with purchasing from two to three vendors online which have very good reputations versus buying juices from local B&M shops. Most of the juices I've tried from the B&M vary greatly in taste and color of the SAME flavor, depending on who 'mixed' it. I quit using the local B&Ms because of those issues.

My vendors of choice online are: GoodEjuice.com, Naturally-Extracted-Tobacco.com and Ahlusion.com

That's my humble opinion... we all have one right?

 

[happydave]

i have been mixing my own e-liquid for years. most of the time i find steeping can really turn an alright e-liquid into awesome e-liquid.
when im expermenting with new flavors and new blends i take the small 5 mL bottle(s) and toss it in my mini crock pot / fondue pot on a low-medium temp full of water for one 1 - 4 hours. i pull it out of the hot water, shake it look at the color (the color will change) and test it in my dripping atty. take some notes if i need too and put it back in the hot water once every 30 minutes. after i feel like its not really going benefit from any more time in the hot water. i pull it out, pull the cap and dropper top off and let it sit in a cool dark place for a few hours. i then recheck it and take more notes. all of this allows me to speed up the steeping process so i can make changes to the recipe in a much shorter time frame. i don't feel like its a substitution for a few weeks in a cool dark place or letting it air out for a few days. but it gives a close approximation of what the finished product will be like. lots of people do this to "fresh" e-liquid they buy and call it good. and if it works for them, there is no problem with it.

 

[robbhud121]

Many juices are made to order, so steeping is recommended. Some are quite good right away. Custom blended flavors usually improve anywhere from a couple days to a month or so. Everyone's taste is different, so it varies from one person to the next.

On the money....

 

[skoony]

if you have to steep your juice that means it hasn't been mixed well enough.
a quality manufacturer would have a lab grade mixer.
sort of a smaller glorified version of the paint shaker(mixer) at your local hardware store.
they come in all shapes and sizes and also you can get them with more than one holder
or what ever you would call it to do multiple smaller batches.
larger batches of more popular flavors can be mixed in any commercial grade mixer.(think institutional kitchen sized)
there are also ultra-sonic mixers available.
steeping is more of a DIY kind of tradition as mixing lets say a 5 ml batch is hard to do with
your kitchen mixer or whip.shaking by hand and time will let the ingredients obtain the proper mix.

regards
mike

 

[Kropotkin]

if you have to steep your juice that means it hasn't been mixed well enough.
a quality manufacturer would have a lab grade mixer.

Nnnnno, I don't think so, Skoony. I think you could shake till your arm went numb, and it wouldn't do much of anything.

People who do a lot of old fashioned cooking and traditional food prep realize that lots of things - beef, game, fruitcakes, cordials, chutneys, jams and cheeses, for instance - just need to sit (or "hang" or "age" or "mellow") for a bit before they're at their best. You get used to it. For some reason this whole idea really bugs new vapors, though. Maybe because so few people prepare food and booze the old fashioned way now? I dunno.

Anyway, I'm sure that if juice vendors were massive industries with vast inventories, they'd be doing this for you. But they're not massive industries, so they generally don't.

 

[zoiDman]

When I make Home-Made Chile, it taste Better if I let it Simmer All Day then if I just chuck all the Ingredients and then heat it up. The Same goes for Spaghetti Sauce.

Not going to get into the Moral Right and Wrong of whether it Should or Not. It just Does. And that's OK. This is how I look at DIY and Retail e-Liquids.

They just Taste Better, to Me, if I let them sit in a Cool Dark Place for 4~5 Days.

I'm not Into Shaking or Turning or Ultra-Sonics or placing them inside Pentagrams. I just put my e-Liquids into a drawer and come back after awhile.

 

[j3illy]

I buy all my juice at a shop made to order, and some clear juices (not all) will change color, in a few days to a week. This right here literally illustrates steeping, and how it takes TIME and not just mixing. If the color is changing, there's some chemical reactions going on, whether it be w/ air, or just the different components w/ eachother. As this happens, the flavor will also change a bit. But it's all completely subjective. You may like the juice when it's freshly mixed, and that's not a problem. Or you may find it tastes better a week/month later. But then again it could also taste worse as time goes by, depending on who you ask.

 

[SaulT]

I mix my own and I usually get so excited that I vape it right away. It's good, but if I leave it overnight to steep or maybe a week it can improve. I think it may depend on the concentrate used as well as time steeping.