Why do we lump Big Tobacco in with the ANTZ

[Diogenes]

While looking for something from another thread, I came across this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...acco-admits-defeat-will-develop-e-cigarettes/

Why do many lump Big tobacco in with Big Pharma and the ANTZ? While it doesn't look like BT is getting in the business of making mods, they are starting to develop ecigs. So why do we bash BT when they are starting to bring vaping to people that maybe wouldn't try it?

 

[Mikie]

My first guess is they have a proven record for putting harmful BS in their products. That and they aren't making tanks and ejuice. They are making something that would kill their tobacco products, so it won't be good. How many tobacco farms start shutting down, how many established factories start shutting down, how many chemical suppliers start shutting down... when people stop buying packaged cigs from them. So, anyone trying one will think they suck, and never look at them again or learn the difference between "ecigs" and vaping.

They are evil. It may even come down to 'we must ban eliquid and tanks because BT is too big to fail" on the economic front. Which, sadly, sounds about what the US Gov would say and do. They lose tax money when people stop buying cigs btw.

putting soapbox away now, sorry lol

 

[Spazmelda]

BT has a business model that would do well with certain restrictions. They would do well with cigalikes, non-refillable cartomizers, limited flavors, short lived batteries (all of these things would favor products that would keep customers coming back for consumable products). They have good financial incentive to lobby for such restrictions. They also have deep pockets that will allow them to comply with overly rigorous testing that might be required. Another advantage they have is time. They are not going to go out of business if they have to jump through hoops to get their ecigs approved. In any case, if regulations are too restrictive to allow for a viable ecig that actually works and that people like, it's still a win for BT because people will keep using their other product.

 

[Baditude]

Big Tobacco initially fought long and hard against e-cigs because it was competition to their dwindling market. Then some of them got smart and decided to jump into the market. Those that have, have ties to the FDA and the federal government. They are trying to influence the FDA and government to make rulings which would favor Big Tobacco.

For example, they want to eliminate flavored e-liquid except for tobacco and menthol flavors, claiming that it entices children to try e-cigs. They also want to have e-liquid limited for sale to the public in pre-filled cartridges only. This would effectively kill most e-cig vendors who make the majority of their money on bottled e-liquid. Big Tobacco is presently buying out many of the pure nicotine liquid suppliers, which is what the e-liquid vendors depend upon to make their nicotine-based juices. Not having nicotine-based e-liquids available in bottles will eliminate the need for juice delivery devices such as cartomizers, clearomizers, RBA's, etc, also ruining the entire market. All vapors may have will be products sold by Big Tobacco.

So behind the scene they are planning to monopolize the e-cig business and eliminating the competition. They have the money, they have the political clout.

 

[Diogenes]

I don't know if I buy those arguments though, saying that BT will have something to fall back on if ecigs don't work out for them. The smoking trend is going down, so they're losing money to people quitting, no matter how they are doing it.

Tobacco and Smoking | Gallup Historical Trends

 

[Spazmelda]

I can't tell from that website if that was a US poll or global?

 

[retired1]

So, you're willing to pay 10 bucks for one cig-a-like that will last maybe an hour after all other alternatives have been forced out of business?

 

[Caffeine7]

not to sound stupid but what is ANTZ

 

[Diogenes]

I can't tell from that website if that was a US poll or global?

Yeah, I don't really know either, (even though I'm the one who cited the study, go figure!). But that's just one study, when I was looking, there were several others out there, CDC, WHO, but those seemed to deal with adolescent smoking trends.

 

[Diogenes]

So, you're willing to pay 10 bucks for one cig-a-like that will last maybe an hour after all other alternatives have been forced out of business?

For me, that's a bad question. I like vaping, and I'm glad that I could quit smoking so easily. But if my choices are $10 for a cheap cigalike that has less than a days use, (and I know that's completely true, I burned out a Blu in several hours), or $10 for a pack of analogs that will last all day, and possibly longer, (I live in Chicago, highest cig tax in the nation, I believe), the choice is easy, I'd go back to analogs. Or, I'd put that $10 back in my pocket, and walk away from this racket altogether.

 

[Spazmelda]

Yeah, I don't really know either, (even though I'm the one who cited the study, go figure!). But that's just one study, when I was looking, there were several others out there, CDC, WHO, but those seemed to deal with adolescent smoking trends.

Yeah, i dont know. I'd guess that it's a US poll. BT definitely makes inroads in less developed countries with less strict tobacco control. Another thing to keep in mind is it looks like the poll mostly deals with percentages, but the population is growing, so even a lower percentage can still be a gain in total smokers.

 

[Diogenes]

not to sound stupid but what is ANTZ

Anti Tobacco and Nicotine Zealot.

 

[Whosback]

Because BT will use ANTZ propaganda to get laws passed that will make it very hard for anyone to compete. They like the arrangement where they are the only ones who can afford to make smokes and they want the same for vaping. That is why they go hand and hand.

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk

 

[Diogenes]

Yeah, i dont know. I'd guess that it's a US poll. BT definitely makes inroads in less developed countries with less strict tobacco control. Another thing to keep in mind is it looks like the poll mostly deals with percentages, but the population is growing, so even a lower percentage can still be a gain in total smokers.

Damn you and your silly logic!! I didn't even think about that one... But it's been reported that they've been losing money as well.

 

[bikerbeagle]

I used to think it was a good idea to have big tobacco on our side also - they have money and regulatory connections ...but then I started realizing they aren't our friends. As has already been said, they would like nothing better than to use all that money and those connections to eliminate the competition so that the only game in town is theirs.

 

[Baldr]

Why do many lump Big Tobacco in with Big Pharma and the ANTZ? While it doesn't look like BT is getting in the business of making mods, they are starting to develop ecigs. So why do we bash BT when they are starting to bring vaping to people that maybe wouldn't try it?

Myself, I don't consider BT to be part of the same group as BP and what you call ANTZ (a term I really dislike). I also don't consider BT to be on my side. They are in it for the money.

IF they have their way, the governement will regulate vaping, and only governement approved companies (ie, those owned by BT) will be allowed to sell e-cigs or other vaping "stuff". It will be heavily taxed, much like cigarettes, a price BT will be very happy with because it will essentially allow them to corner the market and drive all the small mom/pop vape shops out of business.

 

[JulesXsmokr]

All of this drama for a proven healthy alternative to a nicotine habit..
I think that says it all...
It's all about the cronies in power and the big companies who are putting money into the cronies pockets..

 

[Ken_A]

A few months ago, one of the BT companies announced they would put out an e-cig.
At the time, I said this was bad and it would be an attempt to monopolize the industry.
I was politely told to keep my opinion to myself, as most vapers saw it as a good thing.
One month after their device came out as a fail, that same company tried to block a regulation that would prevent e-cigs from being sold to minors... They lost that one, thank goodness.
Now all 3 of the BT companies back regulations that would put any current vendors out of business, citing that it attracts kids.
The 3 largest sellers of tobacco in the U.S. Are owned by large pharma.

I'm glad I did not follow those polite suggestions.

Please make no mistakes. Big tobacco, big pharma and anti-tobacco people share the same money and agenda.
I am as against them as I am against the FDA.

 

[WillyZee]

I used to think it was a good idea to have big tobacco on our side also - they have money and regulatory connections ...but then I started realizing they aren't our friends. As has already been said, they would like nothing better than to use all that money and those connections to eliminate the competition so that the only game in town is theirs.

Yup ... BT is fixing to control the vape industry and Tax it to the moon.

 

[riseabovethestorm]

Zealots are zealots, regardless of their allegiance.

I think that's why.

If vapers are 50%, ANTZ would be 0% and BT would be the whole hog.

Apparently we're a particularly hateable bunch.