Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[itskohler]

Proudly work for the government, mind you. I love this country and its diversity. If making changes to labels even saves ONE life, it is worth it time and time again. And its a label, not the industry as a whole. There is a reason there are companies meeting with the officals to get everyone on the same page, because they understand business and how to work regulators to their advantage. If you can't see that, I would imagine you probably watch Fox News all day and are used to be scared of the government.

 

[skoony]

I will say this and then I'm through with the subject.

The movie industry and later the video gaming industry were both at one time facing strict government regulation. The way they both avoided the government regulation was to form an industry agency that oversaw and regulated itself. Their own agencies imposed their own restrictions, ratings, and guidelines. EVERYONE these days know what the movie ratings are, and most everyone knows about the video game ratings. Non-adult only theaters avoid rated X movies, virtually every video game store avoids selling porn games. Many theaters and stores will ID or refuse to sell to obviously underage kids. Advertising posters, trailers, and commercials are regulated and censored to avoid showing what they deem to be "mature" content to underage audiences, even if the movie or game itself is packed full of said mature content.

The vaping industry really needs to adopt the same if they want to avoid heavy government regulation. They need to form an overall industry regulating agency that sets guidelines and limitations on how ecigs are marketed and sold, and that includes labeling. The industry needs to step up and demonstrate that it can act responsibly for the benefit of the industry, vaping community, and wider community as a whole or the government WILL enforce it's own standards and regulations. These people that think that ecig companies and ecig users should be able to do whatever they want with impunity are just begging the government to take over. You may as well call your government representatives up and tell them that you're incapable of controlling yourselves, because that's precisely what you're saying when you say that stuff like labeling ecig liquids just like candy is a good idea.


Personally I'm just waiting for the day when some child dies because some vaping idiot who thinks they should be able to vape anywhere they want and behave however they want blows a big cloud of almond whatever into the face of some kid with a severe nut allergy. Watch how the government reacts to that one. And trust me, a case like that is just a matter of time with the attitudes some people here have about self control. We like to claim that second hand vapor is harmless, but the truth is that some of these flavors can kill someone with the right allergy, and some vapers are absolutely militant when it comes to being told that they should control where and how they vape in public.

in a perfect world the industry would naturally evolve into a more or less
self regulated model.
it has been moving that way for a while. the problem is BT,BP and the
government will not allow that to happen. there is too much money at stake.
another reason they will not allow us to regulate is we would do it right and
would not spend unnecessary capitol to do it. the movie and video game
industries had the clout and money to keep Congress at bay and the constitution
was clearly on their side. freedom of speech and artistic expression,etc.. .
we are just babes in the woods. the carrion are circling above our heads.
if we had another 2 to 5 years of growth unfettered by government intrusion
we would be a force to reckon with. they are not going to let that happen.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

I work for the government, I regulate for a living, and I can tell you first hand that self regulation does not work. Period. There are programs for business owners who have stellar track records, but even then we still come down on them. The industry will be regulated, fight or no fight. In fact, if the community stands up against it, I can guarantee much more harsh regulations coming down. And unless you are in on their little "plan", you cannot say that the have an end game in mind that involves total control.

i do not work for the government. i a just a 60 year old duffer.
i can tell you these proposed advertising and flavor regulations do not work.
they did not work in the past for smoking nor alcohol. not one under age
person refrained from smoking or drinking because of them.not one ever.
you as a regulator should know this. its all about the money and
controlling who gets the money.
as a regulator you are in a position to have a say in how all
this over regulation of just about everything is heading.
you shouldn't be here telling us to just bend over cause its over.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

Proudly work for the government, mind you. I love this country and its diversity. If making changes to labels even saves ONE life, it is worth it time and time again. And its a label, not the industry as a whole. There is a reason there are companies meeting with the officals to get everyone on the same page, because they understand business and how to work regulators to their advantage. If you can't see that, I would imagine you probably watch Fox News all day and are used to be scared of the government.

changing the labels will save zero lives.
speaking of lives lets look at the death count for liquid nicotine
in the US over the last 25 years. 3.
one by murder.
one suicide by injection.
one possible poisoning of a toddler in out state New York
where cap went missing from from a bottle of nicotine
and left within reach of the child.
no wonder we need regulations with an awful safety record
such as this.

regards
mike

 

[itskohler]

But allowing those industries to function under those regulations prevented heavier regulations from coming into play, that's all I am saying. I am not telling anyone to bend over and take it, but fighting something as small as labels is ill fated. And no, it isn't about the money in my line of work. It's about keeping people safe by compelling compliance with US and INTL laws.

 

[itskohler]

changing the labels will save zero lives.
speaking of lives lets look at the death count for liquid nicotine
in the US over the last 25 years. 3.
one by murder.
one suicide by injection.
one possible poisoning of a toddler in out state New York
where cap went missing from from a bottle of nicotine
and left within reach of the child.
no wonder we need regulations with an awful safety record
such as this.

regards
mike

You are taking a strawmans arguement here. Look at the bigger picture and try to wrap your mind around giving the FDA what they want now so we don't lose vaping as a whole because of community that refused to cooperate.

 

[Lessifer]

You are taking a strawmans arguement here. Look at the bigger picture and try to wrap your mind around giving the FDA what they want now so we don't lose vaping as a whole because of community that refused to cooperate.

Have you actually read the proposed deeming regulations? Are you aware of what the FDA wants right now? If not, you should, it's much more than informational or non-kid friendly labels.

Are you aware of the history of e-cigarette "regulation," like how the FDA already tried pulling all products from the market until forced to stop by a judgement?

 

[itskohler]

Yes I am aware of all of that. Owning my own line of juice, I had to. To be honest, I don't see it as that much of a big deal.

 

[free4pf]

If you are going to change the designs on the bottles then you should really change the name too...
For example, the liquid line by Suck My Mod called 'Suck My Juice', which sounds like an instruction for what to do with the contents of the bottle.

Personally I am happy for the juice labels/names to remain the same and for the responsibility for children drinking the liquids to rest with the parents.

The only way to give them 'no ammo' is to only sell unflavoured liquid in plain bottles with a big 'poison warning'.

" responsibility left to parents" ha ha ha . this is 2015 not 1970. Parents can't be left to care for the kids that's just not right.....

 

[caramel]

 

[Lessifer]

Yes I am aware of all of that. Owning my own line of juice, I had to. To be honest, I don't see it as that much of a big deal.

Does your line of juice have flavors other than tobacco and menthol? Are you prepared for the pre-market tobacco product application process and fees? Have you already begun product testing to ensure that your product will not cause anyone to vape would who does not already smoke, and not cause any smokers to continue using your product who would otherwise have quit on smoking?

 

[zoiDman]

Yes I am aware of all of that. Owning my own line of juice, I had to. To be honest, I don't see it as that much of a big deal.

I agree with your Position that the e-Liquid Market needs to Act More Responsibly when it comes to how Labels and Images can be Perceived. And I even "Liked" some of your Posts.

But to tell me that you Don't see the Proposed FDA Rules in Totality as "much of a big deal" is Disturbing at Best.

I support 18+ Age Limits to buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine. And I will Not Contest standardized labeling or CRP. But that is About where it Ends.

 

[Lessifer]

are you a registered supplier on ECF?

 

[DRiley5998]

The FDA wants to get rid of all flavors and just have tobacco flavor, no DIY just sealed e-cigs that look like cigarettes.
Somona County of CA has banned the sell of flavored Ejuice.

 

[itskohler]

Does your line of juice have flavors other than tobacco and menthol? Are you prepared for the pre-market tobacco product application process and fees? Have you already begun product testing to ensure that your product will not cause anyone to vape would who does not already smoke, and not cause any smokers to continue using your product who would otherwise have quit on smoking?

I am ready to do whatever I need to do to keep my business, and most importantly keep vaping. I think you all are taking what I am saying to a whole new level. I am not for ALL of the FDAs proposals, but for some. And i highly doubt that they will get all of them passed anyways.

are you a registered supplier on ECF?

Halfway there. Vendor acct is being reviewed, which from my understanding allows me to put that small block in the sig on this acct.

 

[skoony]

But allowing those industries to function under those regulations prevented heavier regulations from coming into play, that's all I am saying. I am not telling anyone to bend over and take it, but fighting something as small as labels is ill fated. And no, it isn't about the money in my line of work. It's about keeping people safe by compelling compliance with US and INTL laws.

keeping people safe from what? you know vaping is as safe as drinking tap water.?

 

[itskohler]

keeping people safe from what? you know vaping is as safe as drinking tap water.?

Wrong, Vaping hasn't been proven to be as safe as drinking water. It has been proven to be less harmful than smoking. Those two things are worlds apart.

 

[stevegmu]

But allowing those industries to function under those regulations prevented heavier regulations from coming into play, that's all I am saying. I am not telling anyone to bend over and take it, but fighting something as small as labels is ill fated. And no, it isn't about the money in my line of work. It's about keeping people safe by compelling compliance with US and INTL laws.

This is why BT was so smart in giving the FDA an outline of recommendations for regulations. The we won't accept any regulation approach will simply resort in more stringent regulations...

 

[itskohler]

Exactly. I am so glad someone else sees that.

 

[skoony]

You are taking a strawmans arguement here. Look at the bigger picture and try to wrap your mind around giving the FDA what they want now so we don't lose vaping as a whole because of community that refused to cooperate.

i for one will not be assimilated.
my argument is not a straw-man argument.
i'll compare our safety record against those
energy drinks any day.
the bigger picture is they want it all and are going to do anything and everything
to get it.
regards
mike