Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

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jpargana

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Prescription drugs are tested in a controlled enviornment before they are available for purchase, try again.

OK, then. I guess I have NEVER seen some medicine taken off the shelves 10, 15, 20 years after they were first made available.I must have imagined it, because, of course, Pharma makes it's own long-term studies for 20 years before it releases anything in the market. Therefore, everything Pharma creates is perfectly safe - even Chantix. :facepalm:

Tests in a controlled environment do not equal long-term studies. At all. The only way you can make a reliable, long-term study is to let the product be available for a broad population and see what the effects are, well... long-term.

So, not even medicines are studied long-term before market release.

Have food colorings and preservatives been tested long-term, before being released into the market? No. Did people stop eating, or worry about them? Hardly.

Have cell phone or wi-fi radiations been studied long term? Can we be 100% safe that those are not going to hurt us, even in a remotely possible, hipothetical way? No. Do we use cell phones and wi-fi? Yes. Are there regulations being passed - regulations that would kill cell phones and wi-fi as we know it - to "protect" us poor citizens? No.

Therefore, the e-cig is the ONLY comsumer product that needs proper long-term studies before we have the freedom to use it - how exactly are those long-term studies going to be done, if people cannot use it at all? Oh wait. "Gobbermint" is NOT really interested in making those studies, so all is good for them and their buddies who are losing boatloads of money. By killing the e-cig industry with draconian, uncalled for regulations, they will always be able to tell "we have no long-term studies [because we took that revolutionary, incovenient product from the hands of the people]"
 

caramel

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There aren't any, but why shouldn't we as a community lead the way? If these drugs were "rushed" into the market, what makes you think its ok to just vape all you want with very minimal testing?

Why of all products exactly and exclusively the ecigs should lead the way?
 

jpargana

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Oh not at all. However define "proper, sensible regulations".

Are any of these high powered vaping devices safety tested? No.
Has every (any?) flavor being used been tested for long term effects on the users? No.
Is every bottle of e-juice have chemical breakdowns of what goes into it? No.
Are there child proof safety caps on the bottles? No.

While I doubt that BT has done any of the above there is not mounds of studies and information proving the safety of vaping and the long term inhalation effects of the juice being marketed ether.

Yes, it would appear that BT and others may help push to regulate vaping as we know it out of existence. However, please re-read what I wrote earlier, the bottom line being that if industries self regulated effectively there would be no reason to have government agencies and their regulations to play "big brother" and "protect us" or protect big business.

By "proper, sensible regulations" I meant the kind of regulations that were really made with user health concerns in mind - not with corporations WEALTH concerns. See the new European TPD and tell me again how concerned with "citizens health" they are...!

"Are any of these high powered vaping devices safety tested?"
Regulated devices already have proper electronic safety features. If some bloke wants to play with a 0.004 Ohm coil in his mega mech mod, that's user error. It's like reckless driving. We are not banning cars because of that.

"Has every (any?) flavor being used been tested for long term effects on the users?"
No. Just like EVERY single consumer product, from food colorings/preservatives to cell phone radiations. Long term studies can only be done after a product has been released in the market, giving people the chance to use it, well... long term. Why should the e-cig be the ONLY exception?
Not even medicines are studied long-term prior to release. If they were, we would not see sometimes a medicine taken off the shelves after some years of being made available.

"Is every bottle of e-juice have chemical breakdowns of what goes into it?"
Not all of them. That's were "proper, sensible" regulation would be useful, see? Having juice manufacturers disclosing that list is not the same as forbidding them to sell anything, because "there should be closed containers only - hopefully, manufactured by Big Tobacco - because a tiny little drop of spilled e-liquid at 3mg/ml could kill a child". The new TPD was tailored to give Big Tobacco, on a silver platter, the outdated 1st generation devices business. The only ones that could survive in Europe under the new "tobacco" rules.

"Are there child proof safety caps on the bottles?"
Yes. At least in all bottles I have bought in the last 2-3 years, at least. Manufactures knew this was going to be used against them, by ANTZ's and fellow vapers alike.

"Yes, it would appear that BT and others may help push to regulate vaping as we know it out of existence. However, please re-read what I wrote earlier, the bottom line being that if industries self regulated effectively there would be no reason to have government agencies and their regulations to play "big brother" and "protect us" or protect big business".
Wake up and smell the coffe. This has NOTHING to do with "big brother protecting us". If it had, BB would look at the e-cig in a rational, scientific way - as the effective tool for harm REDUCTION (not elimination) that it actually is. They would "protect us" by being more receptive to something that his reducing health hazards on the population. And that can only be "good for us". Trouble is, it is also terrible for THEIR interests, which BB always puts ahead of OUR interests.
 

GeorgeS

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    Your argument about the juice is wrong. There are multiple ingredients. What do you think makes the flavoring? All of it is approved for INGESTION, not inhalation. 2 entirely different sources of entry.

    Forgetting for the moment that a child could get very sick (or worse) if they drank a bottle of e-juice (lets forget about the 'virgin' no nic/flavor stuff here), few if any scientific studies have been done on the long term effect of the PG+VG+Flavoring. Even the 'natural' flavoring makes one wonder. Orange and Lemon (for example) have natural citric acid - "obviously" someone who has a 'bad reaction' to it can empty their tank and try something else but can we really vape (fill in the blank here) long term?

    Is everything safe until proven otherwise or is everything hazardous before proven safe? There are many things we humans can breath and survive, however some of which leave unrepairable damage.

    Chill folks - I'm just playing "devils advocate" here. These are the sort of questions that the naysayers and regulators are going to be asking. Don't shoot the messenger.

    (I'm done with this thread)
     

    skoony

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    All of you are taking what I am saying way out of context. I'm done here, you people choose to take one if my replies, without reading who it was to or in what context, and try to slam me for it.

    Enjoy yourselves.
    no one here is taking anything you say out of context.
    your the one refusing to listen to what others are saying.
    i will tell you what Mr. Federal regulation guy.
    it is clearly evident you have no clue how,why or,when,
    Federal regulations are made.
    it very obvious you,like others posting here are nothing
    more than tweens using the computer in the basement
    rec room.
    regards
    mike
     

    Lessifer

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    Is everything safe until proven otherwise or is everything hazardous before proven safe?

    The only consumer product that seems to fall into the category of "hazardous until proven safe" is vaping. I can't think of another example, and for the life of me, I can't figure out why(other than some powerful entities want it gone, or taxed).
     

    itskohler

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    Haha, ok. You caught me, I'm sitting in mommy and daddies house in the basement. That kind of talk will get you know where and further discredit your argument more than your horrible typing.

    You're right, I don't know how law is written, but yet I write proposed Notice of Rule Change to the Code of Federal Regulation. I definitely wouldn't know when they are written, even though a huge part of my job is knowing the exact date that regulations are written and if there are grace periods. And you hit the nail on the head, I don't know why laws are in place, I just get charged with upholding them. I probably know more about working law than anyone in here other than an attorney.

    I'm listening to what everyone is saying, and I really feel that both sides have very valid arguments. I don't like to sway someone to see me side, rather play devils advocate to challenge ones perspective. I just wish you folks could handle criticism in a civilized manner instead of picking apart text on a screen and blowing it out of context.
     
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    stevegmu

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    I haven't seen VG in tractor supply but their PG is USP, never been in a feed or farm store that didn't sell USP PG.
    USP is USP. no different than what you get from any other source.


    There are different purities in ingredients, even if they are USP certified. Certain low end e-liquid manufacturers seem to have a common off taste to their juice. I think it must have to do with the quality of the base...
     
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    KattMamma

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    Unfortunately even the skull n crossbones warning sticker can be interpreted by some as a cartoon character, maybe pictures of dictators would be better.
    I dunno... some dictators are so bizarre they seem like fictional characters to me...

    xIo2qGz.jpg


    Then again, I probably wouldn't touch a bottle that had that pic on it... not sure about children though... and that's the problem - do all the studies you want to see what attracts children, but I will tell you what really attracts them : whatever the adults are doing!! That's why the labels don't really matter -- children want to do whatever they see adults doing, so it's up to the parents to protect the kids.
     

    Jode

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    I see so much ignorance in here that it makes me want regulation to come down. Everyone here is applying what works for them to everyone else. There isn't a one size fits all approach to this.

    If banning cartoonish labels keeps more regulations from coming down, ban the piss out of them. Give congress a bone to chew on since they are chomping at the bit. Let them stick their hands in the pot, whatever, it's going to happen anyways. But you can't sit here and say "well I dont have kids so we shouldn't ban them." That's like saying climate change isn't happening because it feels normal outside where you live...

    I see the opposite. The majority of posters in here that take the side that we will not pick a bone with how Ejuice makers market their juice are not looking at just themselves. We (or at least I) am saying that it is not up to just what I find attractive because the age of vapers (18 and up) varies so much and what attracts one group might make another squeamish but it is not up to just one group or another. And again, I don't think I am the only one that feels that removing these types of labels is going to stop (or lessen) regulations at all nor is it going to be the reason for regulations. I think most of us in this camp are simply saying that we don't want to go into this standing weakly and already willing to give up throwing some of our own under the bus in the process. I could be wrong but I have been following this thread and I don't recall anybody saying, I don't have kids, so who cares about them. My kids are grown, but I do have two small grandchildren that live with me and I care about others children in general, but I also think that parents or caretakers need to take responsibility for the safety of all dangerous items in their own homes. If you have children then look at your home and do what needs to be done to safe guard them the best you can. You are entitled to your opinion however, so if you want to think we are ignorant so be it, but I won't wear that dunce cap for having an opinion different from yours.
     

    Jode

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    I am a somewhat intelligent adult, supposedly living in a "free country." Why am I not allowed to choose for myself what I consume, and how I consume it?

    And more to the subject of this thread -- Why should the companies that sell the products I consume have restrictions put on the graphics/colors/whatever on their labels? They're not marketing to 5 year olds, that would be stupid and a waste of their marketing budget. And teens are gonna do what teens are gonna do.

    As far as toddlers being attracted to the cookie on the label -- why is the bottle where the toddler can reach it? If the toddler can reach it, then it's a problem no matter what's on the label.

    This whole business just turns my stomach.

    FdrKatX.jpg
    This is perfectly stated.
     

    itskohler

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    I see the opposite. The majority of posters in here that take the side that we will not pick a bone with how Ejuice makers market their juice are not looking at just themselves. We (or at least I) am saying that it is not up to just what I find attractive because the age of vapers (18 and up) varies so much and what attracts one group might make another squeamish but it is not up to just one group or another. And again, I don't think I am the only one that feels that removing these types of labels is going to stop (or lessen) regulations at all nor is it going to be the reason for regulations. I think most of us in this camp are simply saying that we don't want to go into this standing weakly and already willing to give up throwing some of our own under the bus in the process. I could be wrong but I have been following this thread and I don't recall anybody saying, I don't have kids, so who cares about them. My kids are grown, but I do have two small grandchildren that live with me and I care about others children in general, but I also think that parents or caretakers need to take responsibility for the safety of all dangerous items in their own homes. If you have children then look at your home and do what needs to be done to safe guard them the best you can. You are entitled to your opinion however, so if you want to think we are ignorant so be it, but I won't wear that dunce cap for having an opinion different from yours.
    I respect yours, you have been one of the only poster in here that gets your point across in a way that isn't threatening or one sided. I just wish more people here had the tact you do.
     

    Jode

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    You are taking a strawmans arguement here. Look at the bigger picture and try to wrap your mind around giving the FDA what they want now so we don't lose vaping as a whole because of community that refused to cooperate.

    I choose not to give my "lunch money" to the "bully" because I am smart enough to know that they will keep coming back for more if I do not stand up for myself.
     

    NathanielFT

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    Haha who needs the FDA, Government intervetion and regulation, half of you lot seem keen to do their jobs for them, for free too lol!

    There will be a thread asking for marshal law next, just in case we cannot do things right ourselves :lol::lol::lol:

    Anywho off to drink a bottle of eliquid and feed it to the family, since the pics on the bottle just look sooooo appetizing lmao
     
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