Why is everyone so high-nicotine crazy?

[Flitzanu]

I started this thread as something of a rant. What it has turned into (with all your rapid and informative replies) is a learning experience.

I see that:

1. Many vapers were heavier smokers than I (although I was/am indeed addicted).
2. There is a difference of opinion on how to compare vaping nicotine levels with those of analog cigarettes, and their respective impact on the body.

The aha! for me is that I can save money by cutting the 24 or 36 mg carts/fluid with 0 mg fluid.

Although I'm still not clear on how to do that with a new full cartridge ... or how applicable this is to cartomizers (e.g., as in my KR808D-1).

My understanding is that some dripping can be done into the battery end of the cartomizer. Opening that thing up and using tweezers, however, is a bit too much for me (at least at this early stage of my vaping experience).

Thanks to all!

just thought i'd help you out here, i didn't even smoke a pack a day during the week, most of my smoking was on the weekends when i went out. so don't feel like you're in the minority as far as not being a heavy smoker

i honestly think i've spent as much on ecig stuff in 6 months as i would have on real cigs for a whole year...but i've got enough juice at least to last probably 2 years. so, yes, bigger investment up front...but longterm...i could get buy with only minimal maintenance with atomizers and batteries.

if you're a light smoker, i'd highly recommend loooking at mixing your own, buying higher nic juice and cutting them down. you'll get more mileage that way.

and...you could even make your own juice with NO nic in it.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

...If you do not like it, Don't buy it! Its amazing how when people do not like/understand something,they call it crazy or far from normal ... First the FDA and now concerned vaping groups Geez

I truly am sorry if I offended you, Cancer (or anyone else) with my use of the word 'crazy' in the title of my first post. I meant it as 'highly enthusiastic' (as in Paul Simon's "Still Crazy After All These Years"), not as 'insane' or 'wierd'.

As Dave Garroway used to say: Peace!

Don

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

On refills, buy blank carts, or simply refill the pre-filled once you're done with them. search on 'cart refilling' or better yet, for your specific model. There's at least a video out there for refilling the M series, check that out, and the rest is easy enough to figure out from there, assuming it's not a 2 piece cartomizer unit.

The 2 piece, yes, you can drip into the battery end. search for 'burning cartomizers' if you want more 'fun' reading on the KR carts. I don't use them long, and use greencig carts instead for the most part.

Note that cutting higher nic liquid will also cut the flavor...which may or may not be ok with you, depending on the starting flavor strength, how much you cut, etc..and you can cut with either PG, VG/glycerin/glycerol, or a mixture of both, along with or without distilled water, alcohol, and flavorings. Start simple and just cut with PG (buy some) or a PG/VG mix, and cut just a bit, test the flavor, then read the wealth of info on the DIY e-iquid forum.

Wow, I hope this thread is/will be valuable to other newbies. It certainly is to me!

I somewhat arbitrarily quote wegster here, but you all have provided great infomation and leads (which I will be pursuing today onward). Even the negative/constructive feedback is meaningful (just not as pleasurable to receive 8-o).

At this point, I'm planning to pursue two directions:

1. Short term: Ordering 11 mg cartomizers (e.g., from Mist-Stix - great prices) and dripping low nicotine juice into the battery-end hole of my spent cartomizers.
2. Longer term: Purchasing an additional/different PV* that has carts separate from atomizers (i.e., the more typical configuration) ... ordering blank carts + high-nicotine flavorless juice + glycerin + flavorings (e.g., LorAnn Candy Flavoring Oils) ... and mix em up (into 8 mg juices).

* [FYI: I've been considering the Blu (yes, I know about the back-order problems, but I love that PCC) ... and the DSE801 (which I may eventually transition to a Screwdriver, Prodigy or GG).]

I think I also want to get/mix 0 mg carts/juices for a lot of my vaping and use 8 or 11 mg levels every hour or so (as I used to smoke analogs).

I'm curious about PG vs. VG vs. PEG (PolyEthyleneGlycol). I notice an undertaste (that I don't particularly like) with all my cartomizers (PG), regardless of flavor. Is that PG or just what all types of vaping tastes like?

Don't hesitate to comment on any of this (preferably without a red in the title) ... although some of it is way off-topic and there is a lot on it in various subforums here.

Thanks again!

Don

 

[wegster]

The 510 has a PCC, your '<hyped color e-cig> problem' is now solved

 

[Zofryer]

I find that my hands and lungs and whatnot will kinda sorta just do what they need to give my body the nicotine it wants, and maintain that level. Plus there's the whole unconsciously covering the air holes in light cigarettes that make them "light". My thing is, if I'm going to be addicted I want to suck the maximum enjoyment out of it. Some flavors taste better or more pronounced if the nicotine levels aren't as high. RY4 for example tastes better to me at 12-18 than 24mg. The "flue cured" and "original tobacco" flavors I prefer high, and Hilton I don't care what the nic level is, it always tastes good to me. YMMV. If taste didn't matter I'd stock up on 36mg unflavored liquid, smoke till my eyes were swimming, then wait for the headache to pass. I actually ENJOY this habit, so I'll drop the nic and pay a little more to do it more often.

 

[Vee]

For starters, Don, welcome and it's enjoyable to read your posts. Your posts read so nicely!

My father and I started vaping close to the same time. We both started with a cartomizer style e-cig (we bought the Red Dragon). I moved on within 2 weeks to a new e-cig. I bought the 510. The underlying flavor from the cartomizers just didn't cut it for me. They had a nasty taste to them (I'm thinking due to the cart filling material). Not to mention the horrible QA on the batteries and carts. Each puff resulted in a different experience in vapor, throat-hit, and tastes. Disappointing to say the least.

As far as your question about the underlying flavor, I have to agree with you there. It seems PG has a sweet taste to it you'll never get rid of. I've found that, in my opinion, tobacco flavors don't go as well with the sweetness as a flavor that's meant to be more sweet does. I can't comment on VG or PEG (haven't heard of that one at all!) as I've never tried either.

One thing to note with VG is that most say that it will clog up your atomizer much more quickly than PG will possibly lowering the life of your atomizer and/or forcing you to do maintenance more often. Different flavorings will clog it up faster as well. Some have reported coffee and chocolate flavorings, especially, will clog them up quick. VG is said to create much more vapor as well.

Your underlying taste could either be the cart filler or the PG or both. Hard to say until you have something to compare against and that's really what ends up happening. I have yet to be satisfied with any e-cig I've purchased. And I have a feeling I won't be until the technology changes. But that's me. Many others have found their happy place.

As far as moving on, it really depends on how much money you are willing to invest. IMO, I don't think moving to the SD right away is the best choice... mainly due to price. If price doesn't matter at all, then go for it but there are much cheaper options out there that can give you similar results to the SD. The very cheapest solution, if you have the patience and knowledge, is to build your own battery mod like the NicoStick or the Magnum (search the forums for more info). Another option is the Janty Stick. Half the price of the SD and cheaper than other commercial battery mods as well. I won't say it is as good or better than the SD, GG, or Prodigy... that's for reviewers to give their opinions on... but I think you should consider it.

Manual button and higher capacity battery is the way to go. A good battery mod gives you the consistency every time (not to mention not having to swap batteries as much!). The manual button gives you the option to get a light or a heavy hit depending on what your body is asking of you at that moment. Love it!

One last thing to add to my novel is on nic strength in the liquids. I can say from my personal experience (1 pack / day smoker for 15 years... I'm now 3.5 weeks without an analog) that e-cigs were NOT enough to curb my nicotine needs. I had to supplement with Camel Snus to keep from having very bad withdrawals. It is very much true that you do not absorb all the nicotine from the juice and it's definitely not an immediate hit like a cig or snuff would be either. I agree with others that you get some right away and some over time. Even still, that amount is not even close to enough. My body has now gotten accustomed to the drastic decrease in nicotine and I even went to lunch with a co-worker last Friday, forgot my e-cig, and just shrugged it off!! Pretty shocking!

Hope my mass of text is of value to you. Ended up being longer than I'd hoped heheh. Again, welcome, and look forward to seeing more of you on the forums!

 

[Mac]

I use 6mg carts myself...

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

For starters, Don, welcome and it's enjoyable to read your posts. Your posts read so nicely! ... [a lot of great advice and commentary] ... Again, welcome, and look forward to seeing more of you on the forums!

Vee,

Thank you so much for your warm welcome and your compliment about the readability of my posts [you're going to regret that after reading this post] ... and for your magnum opus!* <- Just teasing about that way of characterizing the length of your reply; serious about the appreciation of its content.

* Boy, I sure hope I'm using that "wink" emoticon correctly: to indicate gentle sarcasm or inside joke, rather than flirting.

[I tend to be verbose, myself. My emails read like mini-treatises, rather than txt msgs. In my other life (outside of vaping), I'm a professional trainer/speaker and author (on workplace management issues). My wife (who is my coauthor and/or editor) is constantly shortening my drafts ... and eliminating all my parenthetical remarks.]

I have begun the process of investigating the 501 (with manual switch) and am impressed with what I'm finding. Thank you for pointing me in that direction!

I believe that my KR808D-1 (Easy Cig branded) is different than/from [I can never get that straight - some "professional writer" huh!] your former Red Dragon. Isn't that a brand of the Loong Totem or LTv9?

They both have integrated cartomizers, but my batteries are longer - total length of my KR808D-1 is 118 mm* , i.e., about one-fifth longer (and a bit fatter) than a 100's analog cigarette. Therefore they last longer before needing recharge. And, I believe, the carts and batteries of these respective units are just different (and not compatible).

* I think, but can't find info on this. My American-units ruler says 4.6".

Am I correct that your 510 (battery+atomizer+cart) is about the same length as my Easy Cig? [BTW, there is an interesting/illuminating comparision of our respective PVs in the Tips, Tricks, Comparisons - 510 and KR808D-1 thread in the Electronic Cigarette Reviews subforum.]

Be that as it may ... I have just placed a set of orders (to cigeasy.com and mist-stix.com) for more supplies (battery + lots of carts at slightly lower nic level) for my current Easy Cig. And I've ordered sample sizes (3 ml) of 16 different flavored 0 mg e-liquid from nuvape.com (lots of flavors to choose from at good prices and free shipping). In the short-term, I'll use the non-nic e-liquid to refill my spent cartomizers. Longer term, they can fill blank 501 carts. Then I'll build a chemistry set. **

** My wife has been very supportive of my foray into vaping, but she has reacted a bit when I talk about mixing solutions of PG, glycerin, distilled water, and flavorings (boom!) ... and about syringes (am I going to mainline this stuff?).

As for "PEG", according to kinabaloo** and MonkeyMonk** (in the If its not PG or VG than what is it? General E-Smoking Discussion thread): PG is propylene glycol and PEG is polyethylene glycol (not to be confused with ethylene glycol, which is toxic 8-o).

*** Don't you just love the screen names we all adopt here.

I certainly respect your (and so many others') desire/need for higher nicotine levels! For me, however, in addition to having smoked somewhat less than a pack/day of UltraLights, a key reason that I need low nicotine level cartridges/liquids is that I am vaping so much more than I smoked. I plan on using 6-11 mg cartridges for my once per hour "cigarette breaks"**** and 0 mg cartidges for my chain-vaping (I'm very oral).

**** Actually, I called them "mini-breaks" with my wife (who hated my smoking).

BTW, as a chain-vaper, I like to switch off among various flavored cartridges. Since the flavoring isn't labeled on the cartomizer itself, it's difficult/impossible to keep track what is what. [Others and I have posted on this issue and possible solutions in the How do you label your flavors? and Anyone have an idea on how to label carts? threads (in a couple of other subforums).]

Well, this stream-of-consciousness has run its course (finally). [You realize that the only reason I went on and on was to make you feel better about your 'novel' (more of a novella or novelette really). Yeah, right!]

Don

DonBoldUser -> my Blackberry Bold, not a PV

[Vaping a KR808D-1 (Easy Cig) a few days now ... eliminated a bunch of analogs, but haven't saved any money yet ... yada yada.]

 

[Vee]

A quick (I hope) followup to your post:

My wife (who is my coauthor and/or editor) is constantly shortening my drafts ... and eliminating all my parenthetical remarks.]

I, too, have "parenthitis". Though, you have me beat with "parenthetical-bracketal syndrome" (PBS) I think, for me, it's caused by brain dumping as I type and, since my brain goes a lot of different directions at the same time, I'm trying to work that into the flow without killing it lol.

I have begun the process of investigating the 501 (with manual switch) and am impressed with what I'm finding. Thank you for pointing me in that direction!

IMO, the 510 is the best e-cig if you want something for out in public and are too embarrassed by battery mods that don't look at all like a real cig. The battery life on 510s still have very much to be desired but are much more consistent than other e-cigs I've tried.

I believe that my KR808D-1 (Easy Cig branded) is different than/from [I can never get that straight - some "professional writer" huh!] your former Red Dragon. Isn't that a brand of the Loong Totem or LTv9?

I'm pretty sure a Red Dragon is considered an E9 model. I mailed my Red Dragon to my best friend as I'm trying to get him to quit so I can't measure for you. There seems to be a lot of varriance on the cartomizer e-cigs with lots of different model numbers. Gets confusing but, IMO, they are really just starter e-cigs and not something I'd suggest to someone to vape with as their main device.

Am I correct that your 510 (battery+atomizer+cart) is about the same length as my Easy Cig?

I don't have my 510 with me to measure but I'll see if I can when I get home (I use my Janty Stick now pretty much all the time!)

...a key reason that I need low nicotine level cartridges/liquids is that I am vaping so much more than I smoked.

MOST people vape more than they smoke and the main reason most agree upon is that vaping gives you MUCH less nicotine than smoking and delivers it slower as well. You would probably find (as I and others have) that you wouldn't vape quite as much if you upped your nicotine level one notch. Though I enjoy vaping, I am not 100% convinced there are no long-term side effects and the less I actually have to vape, the better... so that's why I use higher nic liquid. Right now I'm using 16mg. I was about to move up to 24mg but my body has finally evened out and I'm not getting my heavy cravings any longer. My body seems quite happy with 16 now.

Though, if the goal is to completely ween off of nicotine, then the above doesn't apply. Just a warning not to push yourself to too little nicotine per day too quickly for fear of relapse!

DonBoldUser -> my Blackberry Bold, not a PV

I have a Pearl 8100. Wouldn't it be cool if we could rig an atomizer attachment to our BBs? LOL

Sigh, as usual, too long. One day I'll write shorter posts! But I'll blame this one on the quotes.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

just thought i'd help you out here, i didn't even smoke a pack a day during the week, most of my smoking was on the weekends when i went out. so don't feel like you're in the minority as far as not being a heavy smoker ...

Thanks for the reassurance! However, I do think that you and I are in the minority. It may not be a small minority, but it certainly seems that most vapers were heavier smokers. BTW, there is absolutely no value judgement associated with this. I'm sick to death of so many non-smokers/vapers judging me negatively.

...i honestly think i've spent as much on ecig stuff in 6 months as i would have on real cigs for a whole year...but i've got enough juice at least to last probably 2 years. so, yes, bigger investment up front...but longterm...i could get buy with only minimal maintenance with atomizers and batteries.

In the intervening time since your post, I also have built up a supply of juice and I've purchased a DSE801 penstyle (with a bunch of blank carts). I keep telling my wife that all this money I'm spending is indeed an "investment." Understandably, she's "from Missouri" on this. We'll see.

...if you're a light smoker, i'd highly recommend loooking at mixing your own, buying higher nic juice and cutting them down. you'll get more mileage that way. and...you could even make your own juice with NO nic in it.

I have followed your advice (and I've been spending a lot of time in the juice DIY subforum). I'm mixing two batches of juices:

1. 12 mg juice (30% 36-mg PG + 30% plain PG + 30% VG + 10% LorAnn flavors)*
2. 0 mg juice (45% plain PG + 45% VG + 10% LorAnn flavors)*

* Proportions approximate.
​

For the nicotine juice, I prefer the tobacco and/or nutty flavors. For the non-nicotine, the fruity or deserty flavors. I chain-vape the non-nicotine and use the 12 mg stuff as I used to use analogs, i.e., hourly breaks.

By the way, I had no idea that plain PG and VG are so cheap. And LorAnn candy oils ain't expensive. DIY, for me, is the way to go!

Thanks again ... to you ... and to all who have provided such good advice on this thread and elsewhere!

 

[Ariel]

The higher the nic, the more you have when you cut it.

Yes - I'm another >1 pack/day smoker.

I started with 24, and that was way too strong, because I vape way more with the e-cig than I ever smoked.

So, I cut it down to 12, and that's working out OK, and my juice will last twice as long.

I recently ordered some 36, and will be cutting it by 1/3. (3x the juice)

I'm keeping an eye on the info about 48 mg, because that will probably be my next order.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

Yes - I'm another >1 pack/day smoker...

Did you mean ">" (more than) or "<" (less than)? The context seems to indicate less than.

...I started with 24, and that was way too strong, because I vape way more with the e-cig than I ever smoked.

So, I cut it down to 12, and that's working out OK, and my juice will last twice as long.

I recently ordered some 36, and will be cutting it by 1/3. (3x the juice)

I'm keeping an eye on the info about 48 mg, because that will probably be my next order.

Yep. That's just what I'm doing now - cutting it with a combination of 0 nic PG and 0 nic VG (+ a little distilled water) down to 12 mg, to which I add the tobacco and/or nutty flavors. That's for my hourly "smoke" breaks.

I also have made up a batch of 0 nic juice, that I use with fruity/deserty flavors for my chain-vaping. No "throat hit" but a tasty, soothing "pacifier.";-)

 

[Ariel]

Did you mean ">" (more than) or "<" (less than)? The context seems to indicate less than.

Oops, meant less than.

It's been a while since my last math class.

Though I can do the math that counts when figuring out how to cut the juice.

 

[FL0OD]

I have been vaping for about 3 weeks now. I used to smoke about a pack a day for 20 years, Camals. I vape with 24mg. I started with 18mg but it just wasnt doing the trick. I found myself puffing all day long. I found the 24mg is just right.

 

[maryjo]

I've been vaping for about 8 weeks now and haven't had an analog in 61 days! I started out with the super e cig, and still use it, but have since purchased the titan 510 with manual battery and I love it!!!!

I use the 510 for my nic hits (average 12 to 18mg) but save the super e for my 0 nic vaping. I carry both and use whichever suits my mood.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

I have been vaping for about 3 weeks now. I used to smoke about a pack a day for 20 years, Camals. I vape with 24mg. I started with 18mg but it just wasnt doing the trick. I found myself puffing all day long. I found the 24mg is just right.

We all come to personal vaporizers from different life (and analog) experiences. As a former 3/4 pack/day UltraLite smoker, I'm finding 12 mg just about right.

BTW, in the process of researching the Puresmoker passthrough I just ordered, I read many posts from satisfied customers saying that they need much less nicotine to get a great throat hit with that device (or the Prodigy). [The same probably applies to other high-voltage devices, e.g., SD, GG, JS.]

...I use the 510 for my nic hits (average 12 to 18mg) but save the super e for my 0 nic vaping. I carry both and use whichever suits my mood.

We use different devices (for me: 801 penstyle having started with KR808D-1), but our pattern is similar. That is, I do nicotine vaping (usually with a tobacco and/or nutty flavor) every hour or so (analogous to my analog usage). In between, I vape 0 nicotine (usually with fruity/deserty flavors).

["analogous to analog" - believe it or not, that was unintended]

 

[KreeL]

Over the past couple decades the number one sellers in analogs are the light varieties. I believe that Marlboro Lights are the hands down top seller in the country. Sadly, smokers haven't realized that nicotine isn't the problem, the smoke is.

Most new vapers are hooked already on low nic levels, but who knows what else they are addicted to with all the ingredients in analogs? I advise everyone who really wants to quit to start out a little higher than you think and adjust downwards (or upwards) accordingly until you find your personal nic level. That level may be lower or higher than you think.