You don't know of Any Studies that show the Presence Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins in e-Cigarette Vapor/SHV?
You don't Read too many Studies do you?
Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.
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You don't know of Any Studies that show the Presence Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins in e-Cigarette Vapor/SHV?
You don't Read too many Studies do you?
I personally think both ends of the spectrum are needed...
And also the middle ground as well...
But that's another conversation.
So assuming the answer lies in between, what is that answer?
It seems to me that it would then come down to science and education.
Is that where you're heading with this?
What is it that you think is already lost?
I have a feeling I know what you will say, and if it is what I expect you to say I would have to agree.
But giving up that particular battle will doom us, so I just can't accept that idea, even if I do think it is already lost.
I know of one which supports your claims, and it has been debunked.
The FDA study did show carcinogens, that fact was not debunked.
But it also showed that they are present in meaningless amounts, like in the patch.
I think you are both on the same page, and just mincing words a bit?
You can Spin It Any way you Want. And you can Apply Causality to Anything you Choose.
But with Regards to Vaping in Public, the In Your Face Attitude is Not Going to work when you Consider who is Pushing Bans, the Amount of Public Awareness and Who Is Implementing them.
In Fact, It is Exactly what the Anti-Vapors of the World would Love you to Do. And Gives Justification to People like the San Rafael City Council.
Correction - it's not going to make any difference when you consider who is pushing the bans.
It's not about public health, it's not about rights, it's about money. The people pushing the bans are doing so for profit.
It Isn't so much that they have Been Debunked.
Vapor and SHV Contains Levels of Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins. What is Unrealistic about it is the Level of Cracinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins Isn't being Shown Much to the General Public.
And the General Media has had a Field Day blazing banner headlines about ToxinS in SNV. They just Didn't Mention that they are Many Times Almost Undetectable. And are Below things like OSHA Limits for Long Term Exposure.
But wasn't that Expected. Was It?
Which is why we need to fall back on social networking and exposing as many people as possible to the truth. Not trumpeting, "Hey there IS bad
in there!!!!"Of Course they Are. But that Isn't the Only Factor.
So If it is All About Money, which Bans Aren't but it is Part of It, can a Reasonably Intelligent person figure out a Way that they Can Make Money but we can get Most of what we Want?
Because if a Person Could, then those who You Say are Against Us would Suddenly be on Our Side. Because they could see a Way to Make More Money.
I'll leave you to think about that, Because I have to meet with Someone today.
This is just plain not true. EVERYTHING in vapor has been long-term studied for SECOND-hand exposure for DECADES and is FDA-approved for cooking. IT IS FOOD VAPOR. Now, FIRST-hand exposure is another matter because 2 of the ingredients: VG and food flavorings, are not FDA-approved and studied long-term for FIRST hand inhalation. Guess which two are? Yup. Nic and pg.
Nicotine is in potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, and chili peppers. 10 hours of 2nd-hand vape might, worst-case, give the same nicotine as eatging 2 oz of French fries. You'd get a LOT more stimulant into your blood hanging out where they are grinding and brewing coffee.
She should not have vaped in a pediatrics waiting room because there could be kids with allergies to food. Most pediatrics offices would not let people eat a steaming hot meal in there.
But if you don't think there should be (stealth) vaping in restaurants or up-front vaping in bars, then the only possible honest thing to do is go on a campaign to ban ALL HOT FOODS AND DRINKS in restaurants.
The ANTZ have been lying and lying and lying so long even VAPERS are believing it.
The lady was wrong. But if it were an orthopedist's office, open and airy, I might have stealth-vaped. Pediatrician's, no.
The harm she did was not to the kids, it was to US.
The same things are present in the same amounts in pretty much everything else everywhere. So it's effectively BS.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. p.opus stated it much more completely and eloquently than I ever could.
The ones who are working against us that aren't aware that it's about the money are what are termed "useful idiots."
I think you know where in Heading. And Yes, We are Both in Agreement DC.
And Throwing Resources and Money at a Lost Cause is Beyond Foolish. It is Reckless. I have to go out. I'll let you Carry this Discussion.
BTW - Isn't it Nice when things Don't Degrade do to the Name Calling and the Personal Attacks. Things can Actually be Considered and People can Freely Express their Opinions.
I accept that the laws and regulations that are in existence today are what they are and that I am compelled to abide by them or suffer some form of consequence.
This does not mean I agree with the laws, or enjoy when my personal liberties are restricted in some way. I just follow them and go about my life picking my battles, vaping in public enclosed areas is not one I feel is worth fighting for considering the potential for negative outcome.
As for the swinging your fist thing, I rather think the duel should be a legal and respected form of conflict resolution. In effect I believe you very much should have the right to complete your swing.
Maurice
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So to make sure we are in agreement, the losing cause if fighting against them equating vaping to smoking?
And so, if we are in agreement that we are not going to win that one in the near future...
Where else can we currently throw our money and resources?
My opinion has always been that we will need to compromise.
And in that I have always agreed with you, albeit very much grudgingly, and rarely out loud.
But the stronger position we are in the more power we have in the bargaining.
Fighting for a cause keeps people motivated and involved, and it's far better than doing nothing.
And it also sends the message that we are going to keep fighting, and keep growing stronger by the day.
Me too, which is why my life was much easier when I was a smoker.
Just because people do not join a group or do things the way others do them does not mean they do not do a thing.
You do not need to do anything or drink any koolaid to join CASAA. CASAA needs numbers to get/keep a seat at the table, which up to now only had ANTZ invited. Joining is free and all it gets you is you are added to an (opt-out-able) alert list for your state. If you get an email for your state, you can throw it away unread, or read it and throw it away, or read it and act in the manner recommended by CASAA, or read it and do anything else you want, as long as you do not represent yourself as a member of the CASAA board (who are the only ones who can speak for CASAA)
Obviously this would be a bad idea if you actually do NOT want CASAA to have a place at the table, and there are people who feel that way for various reasons.
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