Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

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ssgswjohnson

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Glad your intent was not in that direction, even if your words clearly are.

you took an awful lot of time out of your day to say what I just said: that I realize the words typed conveyed a certain way, but that I would like to clear up my intention. No need for the condescending tone. I realized the err of my ways and attempted to make amends. Is this one of those boards where folks are just waiting for someone to make a mistake so they can jump all over them? I would totally understand if I hadn't made the attempt to set things straight.

Honestly, if it means anything, I'm willing to explain myself further. I get the feeling, however, that it wouldn't matter.
 

Mousey

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The problem with vaping (at least in the uk) has nothing to do with the actual vapour, it's a cultural problem;

It's to do with the people, businesses and consumers.
I'll start with businesses; Over here in the UK there's a firm belief that every single ecig, liquid and atomiser/clearomiser is exactly the same and that quality doesn't budge even the slightest bit between businesses. Now we here at ECF know for a fact this isn't true but unfortunately the british public just doesn't get it. This basically leads to them buying absolute crap that's falling apart from the moment it leaves the shop with them. The other issue here is that the B&M doesn't want to know and they'll fob off the customer and sell them more crap which does the same thing or worse (there's a stall round here that's famous for selling batteries that explode i've heard). This leads to the ...... slamming ecigs and lumping the whole industry and branding us all as thieves and con artists.

Then i'll move onto the people; There's far too many arrogant and stupid kids that get sold an ecig despite being underage. And since it's something they're not supposed to have it's "cool" and "exciting", and they promptly begin vaping away in every possible location that they're not allowed to be such as shopping centers and trains. Then when they get stopped by staff/police/other authorities they start kicking off, they'll shout and swear, and sometimes even get violent because of this self-asserted authority they've given themselves to vape wherever they please. They don't take common courtesy into account and never think twice about blowing a hit of the stinkiest liquid they can find in somebody's face (which relates again back to the quality issue).

It won't be long before these idiots end up getting the entire industry outlawed in the UK, i've seen them everywhere vaping away and getting thrown out of places for it, then instead of cutting their loses they'll start kicking off and breaking stuff.
This is a cultural issue unfortunately in the UK, and it won't be fixed for a very long time unless there's some very clear, sensible regulation brought in to stop it. The first step was banning sales of e-cigs to under 18's but unfortunately there's a lot of dodgy vendors in my area that couldn't care if you were still in a nappy (translation : diaper), they'd still sell you a kit and 3 liquids.
 
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Jay-dub

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Apology accepted.

Cause I know you don't really mean to say you hope indoor eCig users get hurt in the process of using their device, but are using this tactic as some last ditch appeal to have ones like me think twice about possible "consequences." And needing to grasp for straws to make your point.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wanted anyone to get hurt. So no, I don't mean it as I have not said it. If you mean that I hope for someone pathetically disengaged from the world around them due to an electronic device to get zapped - yes. I used to have a trick lighter that would zap a person good. As a novelty device - I don't think it was hurting people. But, it was enough of a jolt that they'd let someone else do it next time. Plus, you don't have to think twice about how you appear to others. I simply stated an honest pet peeve of mine. If having a pet peeve is a last ditch appeal, or drawing at straws, then you can define it as such. I feel no need to belabor the point.



I live in state that had hearings this week where 2 members of CASAA were able to handle, possibly even own, opposition during this hearing about using eCigs in public. There were other vapers there speaking on the pro side, and I would say visibly organized to counter what is opposition's take on the matter. This is a proactive bill in Wisconsin that is diametric opposite of bills recently passed in L.A., Chicago and N.Y. Wisconsin passes this bill, and it could signal a tide turning, or it could be a small drop in a very large bucket.

I hear your point as we seem to be a lot less organized and motivated than our opposition. I think it is a valid point and one that can't be flip flopped in say next day or so.

But just as opposition is going for the "ban now, wait for science" approach, we can, and pretty much are going for the "allow now, and wait for industry to dominate" approach. Cause 10+ years from now, we could be in a world where eCigs are king on the planet, having played its role in decimating smoking industry, and our lobbyists are very well known as paid by companies that are as wealthy as Apple. And in a world that has some states, even nations that do allow eCig use in many places, not giving into junk science. Or, we could live in a world where industry was set to take off, but was stifled because some truly believed these things were just as bad as smoking, and their use was discouraged from every conceivable public place and in most private situations as well. And even fellow vapers were advocating for that, believing that these things should only be used to quit smoking and never ever used outside of your own residence. Heck, way back in 2014, some vapers were even secretly hoping that fellow vapers who dared to use their devices indoors would be harmed in some way from the device. Yeah, it was that ludicrous.

Well, I've seen members of CASAA disavowed when acting contentiously, after the fact. So, taking institutional credit for individual's successes while denying responsibility for any individual's actions when they may reflect poorly is a comfortable position to be in. I'd rather thanks those individual's than give credit to the institution. THANK YOU!
 
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DC2

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I used to have a trick lighter that would zap a person good. As a novelty device - I don't think it was hurting people. But, it was enough of a jolt that they'd let someone else do it next time.
I have one of those that my friend gave me after zapping me with it.

Honestly, I have never used it on anyone, and probably never will.
That thing is nasty.
:laugh:

Well, I've seen members of CASAA disavowed when acting contentiously, after the fact. So, taking institutional credit for individual's successes while denying responsibility for any individual's actions when they may reflect poorly is a comfortable position to be in. I'd rather thanks those individual's than give credit to the institution. THANK YOU!
But aren't you sort of blaming the organization for the action of some of their members?

That also seems to be a rather comfortable position to be in.
Hey, I'm just saying...
:)
 

zoiDman

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But aren't you sort of blaming the organization for the action of some of their members?

...

This is Kinda a Fine Line.

Just because a person is a Member of CASAA (or Any Group/Org) doesn't mean that a Persons Views are 100% Aliened with CASAA. Or that the Actions, or I Most Cases, the Lack of Actions on the Individuals Part are a Reflection on CASAA.

I don't think being a Member of CASAA (or Any Group) gives a Member a "Free Pass" to post what they Want and Not be Held Accountable for it.

I also don't Like when a Few Members act like "Self Appoint" Spokes Persons for CASAA (or any Group). That can be an Embarrassment to CASAA sometimes.

---

BTW - I Liked Jay-dub's post Mainly for the First Paragraph of his Post. Especially the First Sentence.

But I can also agree with Some of What he said in the 2nd Paragraph Also.
 

ssgswjohnson

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Go ahead and explain further. This thread is an attempt to set things straight.

I had this response written up. It as well articulated with a lot of thinly veiled contempt. It was really funny, trust me. I hadn't hit the "post" button before I took off to a local Vape shop to buy some upgrades and sample the local juice. I'm in a great mood now and don't want to drag myself back down with a back and forth over the interwebz. I'll leave this thread, for good, with this: we are our own ambassadors. When people see us we are the example of what a "Vaper" is to those not in the know. So long as we respect other people and their spaces, we will be above reproach.
 

zoiDman

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Any human being, be they a member of any organization or not, should certainly be held accountable for what they say.

Absolutely.

And Everyone should Understand that Unless a Person is Speaking as an Official Spokesperson for a Group like CASAA, that their Views do Not Necessarily reflect the Views of CASAA.
 

Jman8

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Vaped inside a restaurant today. While sitting at a table among a group (of non vapers). During a fairly busy lunch hour. Man, that was nice. All non vapers I was with had no issue with it. Was respectful / considerate with where my exhale went.

And had permission among wait staff to do so.

This golden era is sweet.

Perhaps one of these days I'll understand the big problem with vaping inside a nice restaurant.
Today was not that day.
 

LDS714

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Vaped inside a restaurant today. While sitting at a table among a group (of non vapers). During a fairly busy lunch hour. Man, that was nice. All non vapers I was with had no issue with it. Was respectful / considerate with where my exhale went.

And had permission among wait staff to do so.

This golden era is sweet.

Perhaps one of these days I'll understand the big problem with vaping inside a nice restaurant.
Today was not that day.
That's just wrong for so many reasons. The top 10?

10. You're pursuing happiness without being duly taxed for the privilege!
9. Someone could have though it looked like smoke and gotten cancer!!!
8. It might have been flavored and caused some child to make smoking his/her life's ambition!!!
7. You showed absolutely no respect for someone who may or may not have been there and was opposed to what you were doing!!!
6. A smoker may have asked what you were doing and been led down the evil path of not feeding the tobacco tax coffers!!!
5. One small vape for a man, one giant leap towards "renormalizing smoking behavior!"
4. Phillip Morris stocks were not affected in a positive manner.
3. That one vape cost Nicoderm at least $5.00 in revenue.
2. No one knows what's in those things!!!

And the number one reason: You're not dying to pay taxes!!!
 

jpargana

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That's just wrong for so many reasons. The top 10?

10. You're pursuing happiness without being duly taxed for the privilege!
9. Someone could have though it looked like smoke and gotten cancer!!!
8. It might have been flavored and caused some child to make smoking his/her life's ambition!!!
7. You showed absolutely no respect for someone who may or may not have been there and was opposed to what you were doing!!!
6. A smoker may have asked what you were doing and been led down the evil path of not feeding the tobacco tax coffers!!!
5. One small vape for a man, one giant leap towards "renormalizing smoking behavior!"
4. Phillip Morris stocks were not affected in a positive manner.
3. That one vape cost Nicoderm at least $5.00 in revenue.
2. No one knows what's in those things!!!

And the number one reason: You're not dying to pay taxes!!!

"Someone could have though it looked like smoke and gotten cancer!!! "
"You showed absolutely no respect for someone who may or may not have been there and was opposed to what you were doing!!! "
"A smoker may have asked what you were doing and been led down the evil path of not feeding the tobacco tax coffers!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Jay-dub

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Vaped inside a restaurant today. While sitting at a table among a group (of non vapers). During a fairly busy lunch hour. Man, that was nice. All non vapers I was with had no issue with it. Was respectful / considerate with where my exhale went.

And had permission among wait staff to do so.

This golden era is sweet.

Perhaps one of these days I'll understand the big problem with vaping inside a nice restaurant.
Today was not that day.

I've never had a problem either. I'm just not willing to confront a business or private property owner if they do have a problem. Not without developing a rapport first anyway. Then, I'd start mentioning it occasionally. I always want to caution against being too cavalier. At lease until we have more public support and some political fortification anyway...

I have one of those that my friend gave me after zapping me with it.

Honestly, I have never used it on anyone, and probably never will.
That thing is nasty.
:laugh:


But aren't you sort of blaming the organization for the action of some of their members?

That also seems to be a rather comfortable position to be in.
Hey, I'm just saying...
:)

Something to take into consideration. There's a line and I'm looking for it.

Edited: took the rest to pm's.
 
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DC2

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Edited: took the rest to pm's.
Replied to your PM message...

And I always wanted a rat for a pet.

I will love dogs until my last dying breath, perhaps more than almost every person I've ever met...
But rats do seem to have some favorable characteristics and I wish my wife would jump on board with the idea.

My dog would probably just eat it anyway, so maybe that idea is a non-starter either way.
:sigh:

And I LOVE Renaissance Faires because things can get really funky there.
I've had some after hours experiences I wouldn't even try to describe in this forum.

I certainly wouldn't enjoy confessing them to a priest.
:nun:
 

zoiDman

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Rats are super cute, and very intelligent.

And they will ride on your shoulder when you are out and about.
How is that not a good thing?
:)

Say What?

Rats are Cute? Cute Little Disease carrying Vermin.

The Only time I like Seeing a Rat is when I'm looking down the Barrel of a Remington 870.
 

Jay-dub

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And I LOVE Renaissance Faires because things can get really funky there.
I've had some after hours experiences I wouldn't even try to describe in this forum.

I certainly wouldn't enjoy confessing them to a priest.
:nun:

You DOG! I just developed a whole new appreciation for your experienced and learned advice. You're a welcomed guest at my next Ren'fest adventure. Though, I go for the cleavage and mead...

I have an elderly dog and four rescued cats... rodents would die of a heart attack though I have nothing against most pets. Depends on the level of interaction the owner can offer compared to the level the animal needs. I can barely provide the animals I have with enough interaction to keep them sane. And, Daisy (dog) is old enough and suffering heart failure, so she passes out and needs a watchful eye. I'm going to be a mess when I lose her. Aaaaaarggggghhhh!
 
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