Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[Jman8]

When they do a study on how children with various life threatening medical conditions react to all the compounds in vapor, then we will know.

IOW, we will never know.

 

[Baldr]

I don't need a kid in a waiting room going into seizure to know blowing a cloud of strawberry malt with a touch of orange pineapple was a bad idea when he can't be exposed to strawberries.

If you know that he's allergic to strawberrys, I agree that you shouldn't take the chance. But I'm not going to assume that every kid I see must have that sort of allergy.

Can you show any actual examples of a kid having an allergic reaction to someone vaping near him?

 

[BillyTheWild]

OK, I withdraw the ignorant comment as it applies to you. You have shown it does not apply. I don't even want to pick a word for this because as I said all I can come up with would be name calling. [...]

Thank you for that (NO sarcasm here.) Trust me I am no ANTZ and my view when it is broken down and dug deep is actually not that far off from most everyone here in this forum. The thing is I believe that b/c we are passionate with vaping we sometimes over-react and hear things that are not there. Anyway, getting late, need to sleep. Continue tomorrow.

 

[jwoode]

But if someone had a known allergy to something I was using I wouldn't use it around them.

Like a kid in a waiting room at his doctors office?

All I have said and all I suggest is specific to the scenario described by the OP.

On any given day in waiting rooms around the world, you will find people with the most extreme conditions.. just sitting there.. waiting to see their doctor. I'm my line of work. I have known many of those people. You mentioned peanut allergies.. well that is nothing compared to the issues that some people have that are sitting in one of those waiting rooms.

You know what? Vape where you will.. I really don't care.. but there really are places where you shouldn't.. I'm sure doctors will ban the practice on their premises soon enough.

 

[Mr.Themis]

I can't really take either side here. I vape in public all the time, but I'm also respectful of the the fact that some people don't want massive clouds floating in front of their face every couple seconds. I can't really be stealthy as my setup is made for cloud chasing so I wait. In places I go often where there are people I know, as long as they are ok with it I vape. If someone asks me to stop I'll stop. But if I was vaping somewhere where I know the owners of the establishment are fine with it, and someone calls me out or starts yelling at me for it,(heck I've even had someone cuss me out about it in a cigar shop), I'm more likely to blow a cloud right at them and be on my merry way. Long story short, if your worried about someone vaping around you or your children, ask them politely if they could stop or step outside. But one thing I don't tolerate we'll is ignorance. I will always make sure it is ok for me to vape where I go. Most people now know what an ecig is to an extent, and we do have more freedom as far as where we can vape, but there are defiantly places you shouldn't vape, and a doctors office is one of them.

 

[jwoode]

If you know that he's allergic to strawberrys, I agree that you shouldn't take the chance. But I'm not going to assume that every kid I see must have that sort of allergy.

Can you show any actual examples of a kid having an allergic reaction to someone vaping near him?

Well.. no.. maybe we should all go hang around pediatrician waiting rooms and find out?
Find a good crop of really sick kids and maybe one will pop up.


look.. I'm not saying don't vape around kids..
I'm saying it seems unwise to vape in doctors waiting rooms where someone really might find themselves worthy of a study.

 

[wv2win]

Why are people being labeled as ignorant when they disagree with your position on SHV’s harmfulness? Before I switched to vaping, I had done tons of research on it simply b/c I didn’t want to substitute one poison with another. And I continue to do research on this. So far, although I agree that vaping is more likely than not to be harmless but I have not seen concrete evidence that would allow me to announce to the world unequivocally that vaping is not a concern. It’s not always that one side is ignorant when two parties disagree. We just disagree.

It's obvious you have not done much research. Vaping has been proven to be safe for those in the general vicinity of the vaper. I would also challenge you to present "concrete evidence" of any human activity that is "unequivocally" safe. Since you can't, stop holding vaping to a standard that only a "sheep" would agree with. And sometimes it IS true that one side is ignorant when people disagree. Your arguments are weak.

 

[Bramble]

It seems to come down to courtesy. If you are in an enclosed place and someone can't get away from your vapor if they want or need to then ... common courtesy would say tread lightly. In a doctor's office is kind of ridiculous since it's full of sick people. I can recall times waiting for an appointment where I was already working very hard not to throw up, so the fewer odd smells around to set that off, the better. This was especially true when I was pregnant. No one wants to be responsible for making a pregnant lady throw up in the doctor's waiting room that's just rude.

And it doesn't just apply to vaping but perfume and thinking you have to spray your hair into submission while sitting there too.

And it doesn't just apply to smells but you know... I have an elderly neighbor who is under hospice care (last weeks of her life), she deserves peace and quiet... and other neighbors with new babies so guess what... I don't blast my home stereo anymore, as much as I am fond of properly loud bagpipe tunes.

If people really need rules and laws and ordinances to be considerate of each other, or to be tolerant of each other as the situation allows, then we are really in a mess as a civilization. Some people do think that whatever the law permits is always ok to do, and some people think that something against the law is never ok to do and I worry about folks like that. They sit around waiting for rules to follow instead of thinking about how to live in peace on a planet that has 7 billion other individuals on it.

 

[wv2win]

I think everyone has a right to do as they please until it infringes on another person's right to do as they please.
I don't think you have a right to send a cloud of vapor into my face.
This is exactly what will get vaping banned and there is just no reason for it.

Here is another example of thoughtless drivel that always pops up in these threads. When the poster can't develop a logical and cognizant argument, they resort to the "extremes" that NO ONE ever suggested. NO ONE is advocating blowing vaper in anyone's face. Vaping is not being banned due to anyone vaping in public. And those of us who support vaping in public and not in smoking areas, always advocate doing so respectfully. If you had done any research at all, you would know that. Back in 2009, when there was no more than one vaper for ever 500 square miles, why was it banned nationwide?? Not due to the ignorant idea that there were hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces.

Put bluntly, this is just weak BS.

 

[stevegmu]

Possible but I haven't heard of any flavoring allergies that bad and while there are some PG/VG allergies I haven't heard of any that extreme.
I think it would be more likely to happen to a vaper and it won't necessarily be limited to an allergy.

Kids are growing up weak these days. I never heard of peanut, milk, gluten, perfume/cologne... allergies growing up; now, it seems some are terribly allergic to seemingly innocuous things...

 

[Myk]

I'm going to stand by the ANTZ insinuation for now. To be clear, I don't think anyone that has participated in this thread is full on ANTZ, but I do think statements in this thread do support the ANTZ position.

I don't think anyone is an ANTZ plant but they definitely support the words the ANTZ spout in the media as if it was gospel.

Good question.. I just don't know.. I'd defer to the doctor but I'd probably be unsure about it. Probably because I have not quite become used to the idea that vaping isn't going to kill me like my 2 packs a day were going to. I'll get there in time.

Do you go to a doctor? If so ask how your lungs sound next time you go.

For what you said about outdoors, remember smokers were pushed outdoors, then they were pushed XX feet from doors or windows effectively making it illegal to smoke in many places even outdoors (unless you want to stand in the middle of the street. Treat vaping like cigarettes and they get the same. And when cigarette smoking is pushed further away, so goes vaping.

First, I break up your post b/c it is easier, IMO, to follow the debate. Especially for long posts. Otherwise it’s very tedious and confusing for everone, IMO. Having said that, if you feel / think that any of my citation of your post is misleading or otherwise do your post injustice, please feel free to alert me of that and I’ll gladly correct it. I’ll not break up your post this time … we’ll see if this is better.

Second, you have obviously confused me with another poster when you say “when you are blaming vapers for your prediction of the end of vaping that is anti-vaper.” I have never made any prediction as to the fate of vaping. Never!

Third, calling anyone ignorant, it is an opinion, not fact based. How can that be fact based when the same person being called ignorant by one group can be called a genius by another? Just for example, I will call Todd Akin (you know the ‘legitimate rape” guy) ignorant but I am sure his supporters will not call him that? So how it is based on fact? It’s purely a person’s opinion.

Fourth, I also disagree when you say “LOL, my "different standard" doesn't parrot what the negative articles say. My "different standard" is the standard of science not public opinion.”

I take that you mean that there have been scientist studies that point to the harmlessness of SHV and therefore it’s a matter of standard of science now but not a matter of public opinion. Well, as I have explained, it takes a lot for scientists to really come to a consensus with a lot of things. One camp of scientists may conduct studies and conclude that X=Y. Low and behold, another camp of scientists may conduct their own studies and conclude that X is not = Y. Trust me, it happens a lot! Like I said before, as brilliant as Einstein and Neil Bohr were, two very intelligent scientists, they actually held quite opposite view on a very scientific subject! Do any one of them call the other unscientific? Ignorant? No they didn’t. Do we call any one of the two unscientific? Ignorant? No we don’t. One scientist’s fact can very well be another scientist’s friction. It happens a lot.

So, it’s a weak argument to say that b/c some studies out there have indicated that SHV is harmless and therefore it is now an undisputable fact! 15, 20 years or even longer in scientific studies on subjects such those regarding health and physiology are more of a norm than exception! Before I leave this post I feel that I must re-emphasize the fact that I’ve never said SHV is harmful. And, I have never bought into any “negative” study only b/c it is negative just as I have never bought into any “positive” study only b/c it is positive. I scrutinize EVERY study with the same vigor and diligence.

You quoted something that I didn't remember saying like you treated it. I went back up to my post and you separated the previous qualifying sentence to make your point.
I didn't like having to go back up and find my post then, I don't want to do it now. It's not worth it.

Well the side you are on is saying vapers are going to be what gets vaping banned because they vape inside.

What is Todd Akin ignorant about. I'm sure he is ignorant about something. Everyone is, nobody knows everything. Ignorant is a state of knowledge on a certain topic, nothing more.

Scientists will probably never come to concensus on vaping. If you want to believe the side you seem to be believing you may as well quit. Even if their tests come out rosey they're probably going to lie about it. They've made their position clear.

If it takes 15-20 years for something wrong to come out with vaping a puff in a doctor's waiting room will still have no effect. Don't forget, concerts and haunted houses have been fogging kids for a very long time.

Like a kid in a waiting room at his doctors office?

All I have said and all I suggest is specific to the scenario described by the OP.

On any given day in waiting rooms around the world, you will find people with the most extreme conditions.. just sitting there.. waiting to see their doctor. I'm my line of work. I have known many of those people. You mentioned peanut allergies.. well that is nothing compared to the issues that some people have that are sitting in one of those waiting rooms.

You know what? Vape where you will.. I really don't care.. but there really are places where you shouldn't.. I'm sure doctors will ban the practice on their premises soon enough.

A kid in a waiting room at a doctor's office doesn't have a known allergy to me.
If the doctor called me up and said there would be a kid there with an allergy to strawberry scents I'd wash my hair with something else and carry a different tank.
But I'm not going to avoid peanuts everywhere I go because some kids have peanut allergies.

One of those "extreme" conditions in waiting rooms might be me on immune suppressants some day. Someone bringing a herd of snot nosed kids in like the last time I was at the dr could kill me some day or at least put me in the hospital. Should people stop taking kids to doctors, or should I be responsible for myself and wear a mask (actually they provide masks for sick people and none of those kids were wearing them)?

I know what's in waiting rooms, I'm there at least 6 times a year.
I already said my medical group includes vaping along with tobacco products. Technically you can't even use snus by their rules.

Kids are growing up weak these days. I never heard of peanut, milk, gluten, perfume/cologne... allergies growing up; now, it seems some are terribly allergic to seemingly innocuous things...

Although I agree, all those allergies were around.
The problem is a lack of natural selection. Those people don't die young like they used to so they breed new generations of weaklings. 1 becomes 3, 3 becomes 9, it escalates quickly.
I probably should've died when I was 9 months old. I didn't breed but I know others with IBD and they all want to breed, some even want a mate with IBD which makes the odds of passing it on more than double.

Some of the gluten though is complete crap. Someone heard of Celiac's and decided to make some fad diets. There are 2 of them right now being touted as cure-alls.

 

[STEELRAIN]

Ok, Where I live vaping is actually being strongly encouraged and the local and state government are getting fully behind it. I was at the Dr's office just a week ago. i was not vaping in the office, but my APV fell out of my pocket the Dr noticed and asked about it. He asked me to show him how it worked so i set up mine and the spare setup i carry and he and i (with my kids in the office) casually vaped while other nurses and Dr's came in to see what the ecigs were and to learn about them. Spent a good hr after the appointment with 7 ppl Dr's and nurses going over how they worked the fact that they do work, and educating them on sites like this and CASAA.

I just a couple days ago ran into my children's Dr and he now has his own set up (Vamo V5) and has started the journey to being analog free.
Do I feel that I should be discreet as to where I vape? No not at all. People who still smoke analogs dont have to wash their clothes and brush their teeth before the interact with non smokers. The smell of their clothes/breath is by far more invasive then the smell and harmlessness of my vapor. Also, I will take every chance I can get to help educate another person to a safe and healthy alternative to something that WILL kill them.

With that said, If I am asked to not vape in a particular place I will stop. But that has yet to happen. Most people are more curious then afraid of someone vaping.

 

[KenD]

Third, calling anyone ignorant, it is an opinion, not fact based. How can that be fact based when the same person being called ignorant by one group can be called a genius by another? Just for example, I will call Todd Akin (you know the ‘legitimate rape” guy) ignorant but I am sure his supporters will not call him that? So how it is based on fact? It’s purely a person’s opinion.

Fourth, I also disagree when you say “LOL, my "different standard" doesn't parrot what the negative articles say. My "different standard" is the standard of science not public opinion.”

I take that you mean that there have been scientist studies that point to the harmlessness of SHV and therefore it’s a matter of standard of science now but not a matter of public opinion. Well, as I have explained, it takes a lot for scientists to really come to a consensus with a lot of things. One camp of scientists may conduct studies and conclude that X=Y. Low and behold, another camp of scientists may conduct their own studies and conclude that X is not = Y. Trust me, it happens a lot! Like I said before, as brilliant as Einstein and Neil Bohr were, two very intelligent scientists, they actually held quite opposite view on a very scientific subject! Do any one of them call the other unscientific? Ignorant? No they didn’t. Do we call any one of the two unscientific? Ignorant? No we don’t. One scientist’s fact can very well be another scientist’s friction. It happens a lot.

So, it’s a weak argument to say that b/c some studies out there have indicated that SHV is harmless and therefore it is now an undisputable fact! 15, 20 years or even longer in scientific studies on subjects such those regarding health and physiology are more of a norm than exception! Before I leave this post I feel that I must re-emphasize the fact that I’ve never said SHV is harmful. And, I have never bought into any “negative” study only b/c it is negative just as I have never bought into any “positive” study only b/c it is positive. I scrutinize EVERY study with the same vigor and diligence.

If you're talking about Akin's claim that women can't get pregnant from being raped due to their bodies rejecting the sperm in that case (injecting that women who were raped and got pregnant weren't really raped at all), no it's not a matter of different opinions. We now as a fact that that's not how it works. Akin is either ignorant or knowingly spreading false information on order to support a position (in this case, anti-abortionism). I'm guessing the latter, and in any case his claims were incredibly offensive.

As for Einstein and (Niels) Bohr, we're talking about theoretical physics, not empirical science. Neither was ignorant, i.e. unknowing of facts that could be known. I'm ignorant on the specifics of plumbing (among many, many other things). Doesn't mean that I'm stupid, just that I don't have the knowledge that is possible to have on that subject.

As for the dangers of SHV, there are plenty of studies of the main ingredients (pg and vg), conducted over a long period of time, establishing that they are generally safe (and therefore allowed in plenty of products that we ingest/inhale). P.Opus has demonstrated by way of math that anything that could be inhaled second hand is in trace amounts, not hazardous. Then we have the Drexel study. So, the ingredients are not hazardous and in any case you'd only get trace amounts of them = SHV is a non-issue. With that out of the way we have the objections based on vapour having an odour and being visible, and therefore rude to exhale in public (anywhere smoking's not allowed). The odours of accepted products such as perfume are far stronger, so vaping is no ruder than wearing perfume. With that out of the way we are left with vapour "looking offensive", and that'll depend on what a particular individual will consider to be offensive. Vaping is thus no more rude than wearing or not wearing a baseball cap, wearing or not wearing a suit, having or not having long hair, and so on.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[jpargana]

Well said, as per usual.
The bolded part caught my eye in particular because I've already witnessed ANTZ using that scent against Vapers. It's a set up. Sabotage.
See Vaper vaping at the smoke section with the smokers.
Smell Vaper when they come back inside and mingle.
Confirm, Vaper smells like cig smoke.
Confirm, ANTZ are right, due to first hand witnessing.
Sabotage, plain and simple.

THIS!!


Those of us who are treating vaping just like smoking, are falling right into the ANTZ's game! Maybe some un-informed people will not quite believe the ANTZ's, because they have been caught in their lies before... but those people will surelly 'believe' our own actions! Picture this: an un-informed person who, today, is half-convinced the e-cig is much more harmless than tobacco, because some vaper told him so. The next day, said un-informed person witnesses the situation described above.

Maybe that person will believe the vaper on the previous day was either lying, or speaking half-truths (Just like any ANTZ will do), because that person has witnessed a different story... another vaper who treats vaping exactly like smoking, smells like smoke, etc...

Now, that person cannot tell if the second vaper is:
1) just being overly polite, or
2) if he actually 'knows' something about 'the dangers of second-hand vapour'... something that the first vaper either did not know, or chose to hide... and of course, because vaping mimics smoking, that person will probably accept the second scenario.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[jpargana]

How come every body who has this argument thinks that suddenly all of mankind has lost the ability to smell????!!!!!

I shouldn't vape in public because it LOOKS like I am smoking???? PUHLEEZE. One quick little inhale should tell anyone within 50 feet that I'm not smoking. I can smell cigarette smoke 100 yards away. This whole argument that it "looks like smoking" is laughable at best.

Did anyone else in the doctors office confront this woman? NOPE only the OP. Maybe the rest of the people in the Doctors office realized that vaping is generally nothing to get their panties in a wad over.

Let's give some people the benefit of the doubt that they have their own brains.

As far as no studies being done, perhaps you need to join CSAA and learn what research HAS been done and realize that there is no scientific reason for anyone to be concerned with second hand "vape".

I am not a smoker. I do not expect to be treated like a smoker. I will not vape directly into someones face. But I will not voluntarily submit myself to the same bans as someone who burns tobacco in public.

Here's the question. If we as vapers can't agree that vaping in public poses no significant risk, then how will we convince an already skeptical public of the fact.

The more I ACT like a smoker, my very actions tell the ignorant public that my second hand vapor poses the same risks as second hand smoke.

Public vaping bans are already here in some places. However, we all know just how "enforcaeble" those bans are. I understand where the OP is coming from, but last time I checked, the way one fights for one's rights is not to give them up voluntarily and hope we can convince someone to give them back to us later.

I personally agree to what Dimetri (the vaping greek) said in a recent interview. Instead of coming to town meetings armed with statistics and studies that most people simply roll their eyes and tune out, I would come up to the microphone, APV in hand, take a Huge Toke....Hold it and then exhale.....nothing. I would then ask the town council how they expect to enforce THAT!!!! An unenforceable BAN is a useless ban....Prohibition should have taught us that...

(Could have have said it better myself )

 

[chapeltown]

I love you, man! but no...I don't want any beer. you could share the poppin' corn though!

To the OP:

I try to be respectful. To be honest with you, I had already been trained for so many years NOT to smoke in buildings, it doesn't usually hit me that I *need* nicotine while spending time in one.... but maybe that's just me....

 

[BillyTheWild]

[...]

You quoted something that I didn't remember saying like you treated it. I went back up to my post and you separated the previous qualifying sentence to make your point.
I didn't like having to go back up and find my post then, I don't want to do it now. It's not worth it.

Well the side you are on is saying vapers are going to be what gets vaping banned because they vape inside.

What is Todd Akin ignorant about. I'm sure he is ignorant about something. Everyone is, nobody knows everything. Ignorant is a state of knowledge on a certain topic, nothing more.

Scientists will probably never come to concensus on vaping. If you want to believe the side you seem to be believing you may as well quit. Even if their tests come out rosey they're probably going to lie about it. They've made their position clear.

If it takes 15-20 years for something wrong to come out with vaping a puff in a doctor's waiting room will still have no effect. Don't forget, concerts and haunted houses have been fogging kids for a very long time.




A kid in a waiting room at a doctor's office doesn't have a known allergy to me.
If the doctor called me up and said there would be a kid there with an allergy to strawberry scents I'd wash my hair with something else and carry a different tank.
But I'm not going to avoid peanuts everywhere I go because some kids have peanut allergies.

One of those "extreme" conditions in waiting rooms might be me on immune suppressants some day. Someone bringing a herd of snot nosed kids in like the last time I was at the dr could kill me some day or at least put me in the hospital. Should people stop taking kids to doctors, or should I be responsible for myself and wear a mask (actually they provide masks for sick people and none of those kids were wearing them)?

I know what's in waiting rooms, I'm there at least 6 times a year.
I already said my medical group includes vaping along with tobacco products. Technically you can't even use snus by their rules.





[...]

You keep saying your side this and your side that about me. Just what is my side? From reading your post above, I take that you mean I am on the side that says SHV is harmful, correct? Did I misunderstand you? Hmmm, I don't know why you would say such a thing when time after time, post after post I emphasize that I have not once even suggest that I think SHV is harmful. That's not my "side", not at all. Looks to me that it is my time to exit this thread because it is not very productive if I have to defend myself from things I haven't said and opinions I haven't given, over and over again, like the "conversation" below:

"Tom is coming to the party."
"Oh, I am not sure Tom is coming or not"
"Why do you say Tom is NOT coming?"
"I didn't say that. I say I don't know"
"Why you say Tom is NOT coming"
"I say I don't know whether Tom is coming or not."
"You say Tom is not coming."
"For the last time already, I didn't say Tom is not coming"
"Why do you say Tom is not coming?"
"Oh, brother!"

Peace out.

 

[p.opus]

I wouldn't see a problem if no vapor cloud were expelled in a closed space with potentially sick people with unknown conditions.
Those people's rights have not been infringed.

That's the rub. Vapor IS expelled, but you can't see it.

Don't you realize that if I keep it in long enough that no crowd is produced, and then exhale, then THE EXACT SAME ingredients are being expelled, you just can't see it.

So the whole argument depends on what you can see, not what I exhale.

That's my point.

People say they are concerned about second hand nicotine, but not about the nicotrol inhaler, which also produces "second hand nicotine". Why? No cloud.

People are not concerned about second hand vape if they don't see it. Why? No Cloud.

BUT if I exhale a cloud, all of the sudden it's a problem. So I am vaping my Stawberry liquid in the office not creating a scene, creating no cloud, and then at one point a bit of cloud escapes and suddenly I am rude, I am disrepectful and I am threatening the life of some poor allergic kid in the office.

Never mind the fact that for the last 30 minutes I've been exhaling the same ingredients, just not visible, for the last 30 minutes.

That is the very heart of this argument.

If I exhale a cloud or not I still exhale PG VG Nic (if I vape nic) and flavors......

But Cloud is bad and no cloud is good?!!!??

This makes no rational sense. Now, If I were in a movie theater and blew a huge sub ohm cloud so that it impeded the view of the person behind me, then I would agree with that scenario.

However it's this VERY double standard that wants me pull my hair out. I stealth vape in most situations because I don't want to deal with all the Nannies around, but the fact that the standard exists is frustrating. And what is even MORE frustrating is that fellow vapers apply the same double standard.

That's what I'm fighting against. I want people to realize that theirs nothing to fear from the cloud.....Yes I can stealth vape....It takes a little extra effort, but it can be done. But I'd prefer not to.

 

[FRANKSTER]

I agree 100 percent that you have the right to vape indoors, but I still believe that you should not because you are just making easier for the government to stop it. I do not know what the majority think about this, but the regulation is coming to stop internet sales of vaping products and this is what worries me the most.

Our rights in this county are being trampled upon everyday. You say inform the public that it is not harmful, that is not going to help because this country is only about money and there is no money in health. Big drug and tobacco have every politician in their pocket. I only want to be able to vape and I really do not care if vaping is not allowed where smoking is not allowed,

I just want to be able to buy what I need to vape and by blowing all these clouds indoors, you just helping the regulators stop us so why do it. You can believe your rights are being violated and they are, but it will not help. It's all about money and just is no money in being healthy. Believe this or not the truth in this country went to die as soon as they signed those documents on July 4 1776.

So, I think we should get ready to buy as many mods and rba's as possible because soon you are not going to be able to get them and that is a shame but it is going to happen whether we like it or not. You can count on it. That is my position on this entire discussion. " Something Wicked This Way Comes" YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK.

 

[p.opus]

I agree 100 percent that you have the right to vape indoors, but I still believe that you should not because you are just making easier for the government to stop it. I do not know what the majority think about this, but the regulation is coming to stop internet sales of vaping products and this is what worries me the most.

Our rights in this county are being trampled upon everyday. You say inform the public that it is not harmful, that is not going to help because this country is only about money and there is no money in health. Big drug and tobacco have every politician in their pocket. I only want to be able to vape and I really do not care if vaping is not allowed where smoking is not allowed,

I just want to be able to buy what I need to vape and by blowing all these clouds indoors, you just helping the regulators stop us so why do it. You can believe your rights are being violated and they are, but it will not help. It's all about money and just is no money in being healthy. Believe this or not the truth in this country went to die as soon as they signed those documents on July 4 1776.

So, I think we should get ready to buy as many mods and rba's as possible because soon you are not going to be able to get them and that is a shame but it is going to happen whether we like it or not. You can count on it. That is my position on this entire discussion. " Something Wicked This Way Comes" YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK.

Unfortunately I think what you are saying is true.

I have a Sigelei in the mail that uses replaceable batteries instead of relying soley on my MVP's. I have a Kayfun in the mail and learning to rebuild. I have a Protovapor on order because I like the fact that' it's well built and also uses replaceable batteries.. I may get a mech mod eventually as well.

In the meantime. I'm going to a vape convention in Tampa this weekend.

100's if not thousands of us will be vaping......Indoors.......Where smoking is prohibited......

Not only is the building owner aware of this, he is blessing it. He understands, there is nothing to fear from the cloud.