Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.
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See, you made your point subtly and with wit. I could take some pointers...
I think it is Great that Nothing has Changed in Your neck of the Woods since 2010. I wish I could say the Same for Everyone.
In 2010, I don't remember the term "Call For Action" ever being used. Today, the Top of Every ECF has a List of Locations Under Siege.
And I don't Recall Vaper's in the UK being worried About Much. Except maybe where to get a Good Deal on Boge 2.0 Cartomizers.
I Don't think 2017 will be much different than 2016. And 2016 will be Similar to 2015. The Year of the Change will be 2014. And by 2015, vaping as we know it will be About what it Is going to be.
I like that Say'n that Less is More.
BTW - How are you doing on that Draft you are going to e-Mail Bomb people with?
@ZoidMan:
I thought you guys were a team? Which is it, now? What IS your recommendation? What CAN ordinary citizens do?
Hm....
Yes, good question. After he just said that writing to those in politics is no use
I thought you guys were a team? Which is it, now? What IS your recommendation? What CAN ordinary citizens do?
Hm....
Yes, good question. After he just said that writing to those in politics is no use
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HA! You baited me and I got a post deleted. You win. You're logic is solid. I'm sure every post you make only increases everyone's confidence in your ability to provide sound logic and sincere arguments.
It's not an either/or scenario no matter how much you want to dictate that it is. You can put whatever words you want in my mouth. I acknowledge you think a lot of things and like to share those thoughts.
Is this another conspiratorial delusion that I'm here to sabotage things? Or, are you the one saying things are hopeless? Are you pinning you're hopelessness on me, then attacking me out of some sort of weird catharsis?
Once again - you see right through us. I'm glad everyone here gets to be enlightened by your insights.
@ZoidMan:
I thought you guys were a team? Which is it, now? What IS your recommendation? What CAN ordinary citizens do?
Hm....
Yes, good question. After he just said that writing to those in politics is no use
I think you Like to try and Stir Things Up and to Spread FUD More than you Like to Work on a Solution.
Totally agree!
Helps living in a state that was proactive on eCig use in public (proposing to exempt eCigs from smoking ban when really didn't need to be, but needs to be as a matter of principle, and to make it clear for private property owners/business that it is allowed).
The reactionary politics sweeping the nation makes it much tougher for the average vaping consumer and right about now, L.A. looks like prime example of this. I'd love to see L.A. rally and change things for usage allowance. L.A. would possibly be good example of where militant vapers are needed.
And by "militant" I mean activists who are peaceful but relentlessly determined.
Yes, good question. After he just said that writing to those in politics is no use
Please provide the link to the post so I can clarify my stance. Obviously, it's written in a way that can be misinterpreted and I'd like to correct it.
Good idea!
I say Close the Thread.
It's Run it's Course. And Nothing New is Being Brought up.
I second. Me and Zoid are working together in a conspiracy to thwart the efforts of certain people here. Now that that's been established and is in no way a distraction from the point at hand, there's no need to continue this circle...hug.
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Here's the thing...
I have 10 years worth of my beloved 510 atomizers that I drip with.
And I have no need to do anything other than drip.
I have 10 years worth of nicotine vacuum packed in the freezer.
But since I only vape about one milliliter per day at best, it doesn't take up any space at all.
I do not really have a horse in this race.
But I fight because it is right to fight.
I contact legislators, vape shops, reporters, and talk to politicians.
I even go so far as to speak with both small and large businesses regarding their policies.
Not that I care what any of them decide to do as it regards my ability to vape, because I will always be able to.
I vape everywhere that vaping is not allowed, if and when I should decide that I want to.
I can stealth vape anywhere, and no one can ever stop me.
But that is NOT what this is all about.
This is not about me.
This is about millions of smokers that are still smoking and still dying.
And THEY want to stop us, because THEY don't REALLY want smokers to stop smoking.
I would like to hope that I don't have to go into detail on who THEY are or why THEY are doing this to smokers.
Or why THEY are now doing this to us as well.
But I can, and gladly will, if asked.
I have 10 years worth of my beloved 510 atomizers that I drip with.
And I have no need to do anything other than drip.
I have 10 years worth of nicotine vacuum packed in the freezer.
But since I only vape about one milliliter per day at best, it doesn't take up any space at all.
I do not really have a horse in this race.
But I fight because it is right to fight.
I contact legislators, vape shops, reporters, and talk to politicians.
I even go so far as to speak with both small and large businesses regarding their policies.
Not that I care what any of them decide to do as it regards my ability to vape, because I will always be able to.
I vape everywhere that vaping is not allowed, if and when I should decide that I want to.
I can stealth vape anywhere, and no one can ever stop me.
But that is NOT what this is all about.
This is not about me.
This is about millions of smokers that are still smoking and still dying.
And THEY want to stop us, because THEY don't REALLY want smokers to stop smoking.
I would like to hope that I don't have to go into detail on who THEY are or why THEY are doing this to smokers.
Or why THEY are now doing this to us as well.
But I can, and gladly will, if asked.
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And let me just add...
I often struggle not to say anything that will alienate those that are willing to do something.
And that includes Jay-dub, Jman8, kristin, ZoidMan, wv2win, Anjaffm, myk, and many others whom I may be neglecting to mention.
And please don't think you should be working to make it onto the above list, because it is likely no place of honor to most of the readers of this forum.
To many, if not most, we may all look like freaking douchebags.
I don't find it to be very productive to focus on our different views on these issues.
I just find it productive to be ready, willing, and able to fight for what is right.
But even that is not simple, because there are clearly different views on what is right.
:sigh:
It is what it is.
But people as motivated as those I've mentioned should not be struggling against each other.
We should be trying to find common ground while also doing what we feel in our hearts.
Give each other a break.
And if this is the stupidest post I've ever made, then give me a few days.
I'm sure I can make one far more stupid if given adequate time.
I often struggle not to say anything that will alienate those that are willing to do something.
And that includes Jay-dub, Jman8, kristin, ZoidMan, wv2win, Anjaffm, myk, and many others whom I may be neglecting to mention.
And please don't think you should be working to make it onto the above list, because it is likely no place of honor to most of the readers of this forum.
To many, if not most, we may all look like freaking douchebags.
I don't find it to be very productive to focus on our different views on these issues.
I just find it productive to be ready, willing, and able to fight for what is right.
But even that is not simple, because there are clearly different views on what is right.
:sigh:
It is what it is.
But people as motivated as those I've mentioned should not be struggling against each other.
We should be trying to find common ground while also doing what we feel in our hearts.
Give each other a break.
And if this is the stupidest post I've ever made, then give me a few days.
I'm sure I can make one far more stupid if given adequate time.
I think it's important to remember that the regulations are a top down effort. There has been no public outrage or cry about rude vapers or second hand vapor like there was with smoking bans. Most of the public isn't even aware of ecigs or their useage if they have been around it.
I stealth vaped in my doctors waiting room when I was left waiting too long. When he returned, he never smelled a thing. Another friend is a doctor and I pulled my pv and took a vape right in front of her, in her office (no patients present) because otherwise I don't think she would have believed me. "Where does the nicotine go?" etc. Lots of questions are not being answered in the media, they are not being described accuratley and ppl don't even know what they look like. I'm preaching to the choir.
Anyway, the truth is on our side. The effort to ban them is top down and has nothing to do with what vapers do or don't do. It's not about "us". It is about money and they have direct access to politicans, policy makers, lawyers who write the bills, marketing focus groups, advertising agencies, pr companies / think tanks that specialize in changing public opinions, grant money (our taxes at work), and people who get paid for activism. That's all.
Still we vote politicans in office and without us, they have no job - at least not their first choice. We have to be our own lobbyists. If an email or letter isn't getting a response, go visit their office. Maybe they know someone who is still smoking and hand them an ego kit. That's pretty effective.
I've seen another politically unpopular industry, but legal, under go an attack. One company spend $150k on lobbying and they were protected. That really can be a game changer.
The sleeper in this arguement has been independent small business' who I think for the most part felt secure that legislation wouldn't attempt to wipe them out. "Too much money in this" or belief in fair competition, idk what they were thinking. My prayers are that after the experiences with legislation in Calif and Wa that they are waking up to the fact they are probably in deeper guano than the individal vaper is because their livelihood / investments are on the line here. This might be the tipping point that we haven't seen before.
I stealth vaped in my doctors waiting room when I was left waiting too long. When he returned, he never smelled a thing. Another friend is a doctor and I pulled my pv and took a vape right in front of her, in her office (no patients present) because otherwise I don't think she would have believed me. "Where does the nicotine go?" etc. Lots of questions are not being answered in the media, they are not being described accuratley and ppl don't even know what they look like. I'm preaching to the choir.
Anyway, the truth is on our side. The effort to ban them is top down and has nothing to do with what vapers do or don't do. It's not about "us". It is about money and they have direct access to politicans, policy makers, lawyers who write the bills, marketing focus groups, advertising agencies, pr companies / think tanks that specialize in changing public opinions, grant money (our taxes at work), and people who get paid for activism. That's all.
Still we vote politicans in office and without us, they have no job - at least not their first choice. We have to be our own lobbyists. If an email or letter isn't getting a response, go visit their office. Maybe they know someone who is still smoking and hand them an ego kit. That's pretty effective.
I've seen another politically unpopular industry, but legal, under go an attack. One company spend $150k on lobbying and they were protected. That really can be a game changer.
The sleeper in this arguement has been independent small business' who I think for the most part felt secure that legislation wouldn't attempt to wipe them out. "Too much money in this" or belief in fair competition, idk what they were thinking. My prayers are that after the experiences with legislation in Calif and Wa that they are waking up to the fact they are probably in deeper guano than the individal vaper is because their livelihood / investments are on the line here. This might be the tipping point that we haven't seen before.
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