Why Vaping Might Fail... (Manufacturers, Distributors please note)

[FantWriter]

I know many people don't want to "get into" vaping, they just want a simple alternative to cigarettes. Making them recognize not only the model number of what they use but also remember which models have interchangable parts is a bit much.

In analogy, I doubt that most people could buy the right filters for their car -- they know the make, model, and year, but the engine size, whether it has CA emission equipment, etc. etc. etc. is far beyond them.

If I were going to retail products, I would set up one storefront for 901, 808, and compatible equipment, and have another storefront and name for the 510 and compatibles, etc.. In this way, the customer could be assured that anything and everything they buy from one source works with everything else from that source.

Unfortunately, standardization in PVs is as impossible as it is in automobiles -- the person who needs a 4WD SUV to get to their favorite hunting spot or fishing hole isn't going to be happy with a Jag..

 

[ElProximo]

Why stop at just PV's? How great would life be if everything was super simple?

It would be great but I think that is his point. He has zero compatibility problems with cigarettes and did not need to go online, research models, find parts, hope his brand of cigarette doesn't go out of style and find himself with cartons of essentially 'useless' cigarettes.

Interesting update but just got back from the one retailer in the area who sells e-cigs and we had quite a discussion about this. He himself was complaining. He has sold a few kits and now the folks are returning asking him why they don't work anymore or if they can buy an 'Atty' or if something fits the '510' or asking him to order 'cartomizers' and if they are different from 'carts' etc.
Now he says he has to become an 'expert' and even worse he did order a bunch of parts and accessories but now that model is becoming 'passe' and people want Egos instead.
For him its not worth it. He sells 100 packs of cigarettes a day with zero knowledge, research and just has to ID young-looking people (he jokes its the hard part).

I also agree with those who mention the 'good thing' is that all these different brands and models are a way for the 'market' to choose and drive it to the best case scenario.
I do get concerned when I see the trend becoming wider and more varied (but not interchangeable) models, threads, more and more 0.Xmm fittings etc etc.
I would hope the trend (overall) goes towards some kind of mainstream or at least there is some kind of 'common' connectors.

Also, in the same way Operating Systems might have impeded progress by building for 'legacy' it also allowed us to keep using that software a little longer.
A new PV that effectively renders last months atomizers, carts, chargers and batteries 'useless' is pretty frustrating for the average user.

 

[lostknitter]

There are some companies that do it all for you. One of the girls I work with is using one of those, all you have to do is buy the starter kit and they send you what you need on a monthly basis and it goes on your card and you don't have to even think about it much, for her it is working. I think there are levels of service for all levels of interest. We have to decide how much we want to put into it, then find the company/set-up that suits us. Yes, smoking a cigarette was, in some ways, easier. But I also think there is an e-cig for everyone who really wants to improve their health.

 

[Hoosier]

Cigarettes have hundreds of years of refinement behind them.

PV's are in the first decade.

Anyone can pick up a cigarette and get it to work flawlessly.

PV's have a learning curve.

Cigarettes are effortless.

PV's do require some effort.

The only question is, is a PV right for you? It either is or is not. I am not one of those that think they are for everyone. I also do not think an entire industry should cater to one type of individual, the individual for whom PV's are not really going to work for them.

Have your friend give the PV market another 100 years to get things more refined and then give it a go. This is like jumping into buying an automobile when Haynes Appersons and Cords were the usual Hoosier autos. Things are changing rapidly and it is new. Some folks should stick with horses a bit longer. New tech is complicated because that is human nature.

My first computer ran a cassette tape for its big memory feed and my programs were all written by me. It wasn't for everybody, but I liked it. Nothing was cross compatible. A few decades later and things are better, but the market had to work or we would all be stuck with TRS80's today. (BTW: A TRS80 was a huge step up from my first computer.)

 

[Valsacar]

It's also quite irritating when I go out and buy AA batteries only to get back and realize my remote doesn't take AA batteries... so I go back to the store and buy D batteries... just to come back and find out they don't fit either, so I get me a couple 9v batteries... well crap, that doesn't work either... now I have a desk full of useless batteries and my remote still doesn't work! Or... I could have... I don't know... taken a few seconds to look up the right part and just bought some AAA batteries the first time, or even better, I could have gotten some extras because I might run out (you know... like how you used to keep an extra pack of cigarettes on you, just in case you ran out?).

 

[eeyore72]

My drs use to tell me I can talk to you till I am blue in the face on not smoking. If you not ready to do it then it not going to happen. It is my time to leave cig behind. I read up on ecig for over 6 months before buying. Sorry you still got to get in your car and buy smokes. There is time involved in it. So I have to charges batteries, and fill my cart with juices all day away. I got to clean my atties and so fourth. Plus I got to have supplies on hand because I can not run to the store. I control it. I wake up in the morning and choice my flavors I want to have. Like one evening I was placing a order for juices. I thought I do not have the money to buy this. Then I realize I somehow for 23 years had money to buy cigs that were killing me. I am now complaining of spending $23 bucks for two weeks of juices when we were spending almost $400 a month. So yeah it not easy. I am tired of paying taxes on cigs, cigs killing me and just fedup with smoking cigs.

 

[Stosh]

Would it be easier if we only had one car we were able to purchase? Make parts easier to find............

If you had six dealers next to each other selling "different" cars, each with the exact same engine, won't tell you what the engine is, what size spark plugs it uses, and tells you that you have to buy your gas only from them? Then they are out of stock of spark plugs and you'll be able to drive again in 2-3 weeks, or buy a entire new car, but won't tell you that the dealer next door has 5,000 in stock?

Unfortunately the current state of e-cig sales are too much like this, takes some techie veterans to guide a noob who may not even know the actual model they are using. The vendors and scammers that want to "hook an addict" to only "buy the best available" that only they sell are doing nobody any favors. Too many scammers see big tobacco addicts as money trees, if only they can change their addiction from smoking to vaping, and hold them as tightly as RJ or Phillip Morris.

Personally I will not buy an atty or carto that does not have the ohms in the description, on the website, and no sending an email or calling customer support is NOT good enough. Descriptions and technical detail of the products we buy are not classified secrets, they should be freely available. (my rant over)

 

[Krisb]

Too tired for a long post, but... really? I thought I had done adequate research. I bought a lux. I quit smoking as soon as I had a full charge. I had no idea what 510 meant, or cartos, attys, etc. After getting the lux, looking at it, going on the computer and within minutes finding ecf, was able to quickly learn what it all meant. Not sure what some are saying about the threads changing...I've been vaping for 6months and very little has changed there. Still 510's, 901's... I agree with a few others. Is there a learning curve, yes. Is it that hard, no. Your friend just isn't ready to quit. Put forth very little effort and gave himself a reason to give it up.

*Droid

 

[Evie]

I wonder how much research your associate did before purchasing.

I view vaping as an investment in my health. I approached it as I would any investment ie: purchasing a home, stocks, etc. As my health is important to me, I researched and asked questions before I decided which e-cig to purchase. My time paid off. I couldn't be happier with my decision. Should I have issues with my PV at some later point in time, I will do more research and attempt to find a model which will alleviate the problems I encounter. There are several excellent resources available for those who have issues with their PVs (this being one of the best, IMO)

I realize I am making an assumption here, but it seems to me that your acquaintance jumped into the world of e-cigs without doing his homework then just kept going. Were I to encounter a situation similar to the one they were in, I would at a minimum call customer service and ask for advice. One phone call could have saved him copious amounts of frustration, time, and money.

To me, it boils down to personal responsibility.

 

[swedishfish]

It's also quite irritating when I go out and buy AA batteries only to get back and realize my remote doesn't take AA batteries... so I go back to the store and buy D batteries... just to come back and find out they don't fit either, so I get me a couple 9v batteries... well crap, that doesn't work either... now I have a desk full of useless batteries and my remote still doesn't work! Or... I could have... I don't know... taken a few seconds to look up the right part and just bought some AAA batteries the first time, or even better, I could have gotten some extras because I might run out (you know... like how you used to keep an extra pack of cigarettes on you, just in case you ran out?).

That's not exactly what he's saying. He does have a point to some extent Even in the short time that I've been vaping it seems that new products are coming out that really don't appear to be completely tested. Everyone is looking for the perfect vape. The carto that holds the most juice, or the longest lasting battery or the best TH. When something comes out, everyone jumps on it. The tank or clearomizer or whatever comes out and everyone jumps on it trying to see if it'll work on whatever rig you have. Then they find the carto doesn't work with their battery, or they need a different type of atty.

 

[caffeinated]

I reject the OP's premise completely. I quit with a Joye 510 and mall nicquid. Only later did I discover SuperT manufacturing and Backwoods Brew. This can be as easy or complex as you want it to be. I still use the 510 on occasion, heck I have a handful of batteries and I like the size. You can pick up a Joye 510 with 2 batteries and a PCC for $50 these days and it will last for months. Switch to the eGo if you want longer battery life, that's a whopping $25 expense.

I think that "someone I know" simply wanted to keep smoking cigarettes. Cool, smoke away if that's your choice but don't complain about your inability to master something that's no harder to understand than changing a lightbulb.

The bolded part is the key, IMO, but I agree with this entire post.

The whole e-cig process is only difficult, or complex, if you jump in blind and refuse to familiarize yourself with even the most basic concepts.

 

[Krisb]

As much as I agree that many people jump at new products, can't you also say that about any product? Even when I see something new come out that looks awesome, I wait until those that jump quick have a chance to play with it and give their thoughts. I agree, it comes down to personal responsibility, self control and personal accountability. I couldn't blame anyone if I decide to purchase an untested product from an unknown unproven company. Granted, I know someone has to be the first to jump...but I wait and I think any noob should know enough to so also.

*Droid

 

[jazdale]

I have a friend like the op's.
Super smart but discourages easily on new things.
I concur with "he's not ready to quit yet"

After raving to all about my quitting after 35 years, I'm now the expert and have to supply a good answer to "what should I get?"

I'm still muddling with this answer.
I don't want to ask qualifying questions.
I just want to point them to a particular store/site and say get model XYZ and these accessories for your first month of supplies.

Most people have trouble buying unfamiliar products online.
You can sense the hesitation when you offer it.
The local store/mall sells greensmoke and e-health.
I know they suck, but....
I'm thinking this is the best suggestion because it's a tangible instant form of gratification that worked for me.

 

[Katfeesh]

I don't see how it can be confusing all the stuff i own is 510 even the two mods i have. Also all the new stuff i want is all 510 and that seems to be what everyone has for sale

 

[Krisb]

I have a friend like the op's.
Super smart but discourages easily on new things.
I concur with "he's not ready to quit yet"

After raving to all about my quitting after 35 years, I'm now the expert and have to supply a good answer to "what should I get?"

I'm still muddling with this answer.
I don't want to ask qualifying questions.
I just want to point them to a particular store/site and say get model XYZ and these accessories for your first month of supplies.

Most people have trouble buying unfamiliar products online.
You can sense the hesitation when you offer it.
The local store/mall sells greensmoke and e-health.
I know they suck, but....
I'm thinking this is the best suggestion because it's a tangible instant form of gratification that worked for me.

Has your friend tried your pv? What did your friend like/dislike about it? That should help you narrow down the field for him/her. Having a newbie start with the store one leaves me skeptical, if they discourage easily, the poor performance may turn them off completely! Showing them a positive experience, imo, would be better.



*Droid

 

[madbunny]

I think this is normal with an evolving technology. As E-Cigarettes become more mainstream I think you will find more standardisation. At the moemnt, every manufacturer is trying to design the next big thing. I haven't even started my journey but I can already see that some models gain popularity and as such different parts are designed for use with that model, for example the Ego.

Eventually, the industry will be more commercial and you will find that models will have standard connectors etc..

A simple example would be mobile phones. How many different charger connections are there? It is only now that manufacturers have come to an agreement to standardise the connection type.

 

[toddos]

I have a friend like the op's.
Super smart but discourages easily on new things.
I concur with "he's not ready to quit yet"

After raving to all about my quitting after 35 years, I'm now the expert and have to supply a good answer to "what should I get?"

I'm still muddling with this answer.
I don't want to ask qualifying questions.
I just want to point them to a particular store/site and say get model XYZ and these accessories for your first month of supplies.

Most people have trouble buying unfamiliar products online.
You can sense the hesitation when you offer it.
The local store/mall sells greensmoke and e-health.
I know they suck, but....
I'm thinking this is the best suggestion because it's a tangible instant form of gratification that worked for me.

As a car enthusiast, I get people asking me all the time about opinions on cars, what they should buy, etc. I could take the stock answer, which for me would be, "Buy a Porsche Boxster," but that's not going to work if they need to haul around kids or kit, or if they're going offroading, or if they need to handle bad weather, etc. As an enthusiast, you've set yourself up as the expert and people will ask you. There's never going to be a single stock answer (what cigarette should I smoke? What computer should I buy? What phone should I buy? Where should I eat dinner? What school should I go to? ...), and if you really want to be help you have to ask clarifying questions. At least with vaping you've got an easy out -- tell them to come here and we'll ask those questions for you

 

[SecondChance]

Wow! lots going on here tonight. I can see both sides of this, the Ecig companies could streamline and get more in line with each other..but they are all looking for sales, so not likely that will happen.. Other hand if you really want to quit..IMO you do what you have to. Answers are not always easy, but the result is worth the effort. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ElProximo]

I know many people don't want to "get into" vaping, they just want a simple alternative to cigarettes. Making them recognize not only the model number of what they use but also remember which models have interchangable parts is a bit much.
In analogy, I doubt that most people could buy the right filters for their car -- they know the make, model, and year, but the engine size, whether it has CA emission equipment, etc. etc. etc. is far beyond them.

It really does seem to be a barrier to a lot of those average peeps who 'might' consider trying it but are not interested in becoming mini-mechanics.

I consider myself a borderline 'vaping nerd' keener and just recently I was highly annoyed to find out that atomizers for my x-power (brand or model.. dont' even know myself) don't fit my regular Ego.
What bothers me is not that one is some 'improved version' but seems to be different threads for (seemingly) no good reason at all.
One could easily believe that the threads are just slightly different for no other reason than... yep... so I have to buy the specific atomizers. Sure enough I'm ordering more. For seemingly no reason I can think of. No improvement in design. (or is there a reason?)

If I were going to retail products, I would set up one storefront for 901, 808, and compatible equipment, and have another storefront and name for the 510 and compatibles, etc.. In this way, the customer could be assured that anything and everything they buy from one source works with everything else from that source.

I think you have the right idea. I want to mention this to the local shop keep here.

One thing he mentioned (as far as customer disappointment) went like this:
- The person buys the first kit.
- The atomizers die after a month.
- The customer still has the batteries and chargers.
- He tells the customer how much the atomizers cost - almost as much as the new model's bigger better kit.
OK.
- The customer figures they might as well buy the new model but then their previous kit is rendered 'useless' as the batteries and charger don't work with new upgrade.
- They buy the atomizers instead but 4 weeks later a battery dies. Now they spent as much as the new kit would have cost but at this point they are 'gun shy' fearing the new 'upgraded model' will be another repeat of the same scenario (and won't legacy into what will be next months new model).

I think for the storekeeper this comes down to his time=money. In the time he spends becoming a 'vaping hardware expert' and ordering 6 different models and corresponding parts (and then educating customers) he could have sold 50 bags of chips and 20 cokes hehe.

But yeah I gotta say even for myself I have a healthy sized bag of WORKING parts which (if you added prices) probably is a good $100+ worth of essentially useless unusable parts.
(unless I want to go find and buy matching parts which are becoming rarer blah why bother).

I think we will get there though. I could see in a year or two something like an Ego 1300 battery will be a 'standard' common thing and its connector 'standard' for the vast majority of atomizers/cartomizers which are also 'standard fit'.
I hope? I think it would bring in far far more 'mainstream users' to the market.

 

[willr001]

Okay, so I read the original post, and after the person first ordered non-compatible parts, or couldn't find compatible parts, why was the solution to buy whole new sets of things, instead of a sub-$5 adapter that would let you use whatever battery you have with whatever atty's you have?

Am I the only one who sees this as a problem of someone who probably had no idea what they were doing, and refused to ask anyone at all for help? If they had, they would have been pointed to much cheaper ways of making things work.