Wicking Material

[gvii]

If you find something that works well, I'm all ears. Now that I made the plunge and started tinkering, I'm amazed at just how simple these are. I was really surprised at how easy the atomizers were to disassemble, and I really have a lot of thanks for the people here whose posts explained how to take them apart. The pictures they posted were a HUGE help as well.

I'm thinking about trying some tungsten wire I have access to, but I'm thinking it's going to be a bit too thin. But I'll see what I can do with it anyway. It's free, and the worst that will happen is that it won't work, lol. That's the nice thing about having these cheap cigs. Though I would prefer that I not destroy one tinkering, I'm not exactly going to lose any sleep over it if I do.

 

[mogur]

Tungsten has a huge coeffient of thermal resistance, as opposed to Nichrome. A forty watt bulb measures 30 ohms cold, and calculates to 300 ohms hot. That's a huge inrush current, and one that you don't want to deal with. If you hook up an ammeter to your household current, you will find that the .38 amp current that a 40 watt bulb consumes, has a 5.8 amps inrush. If you wanted a 1 amp continuous current at 5 volts dc, then tungsten would have an inrush of 10 amps. Not to mention the vacuum required.

 

[vslim]

That's the advantage with nichrome. I read that the chemistry of the nichrome creates an insulator when heated and the coils don't short out when wound tight.

You 'read' some idle speculation by someone who was too lame to do a simple 5th grade batteries-and-wires experiment. It is in fact very difficult to wind a self-shorting coil from oxidized stainless. If you heat the wire to red heat with a lighter before you wind the coil it will become oxidized, and it doesn't matter how tight you wind it, it won't short. Although it will make no difference to the nichrome Nazis here on this forum, I will mention that I have a perfectly functioning rebuilt 901 atomizer with a stainless steel coil in it. All it took was a lighter, a meter, and a paper clip form to wind the coil. I hope people can refrain from posting misinformation and related BS that keeps people from experimentation and innovation. After all, this is a modder's forum, which should be encouraging creative solutions.

 

[surbitonPete]

You 'read' some idle speculation by someone who was too lame to do a simple 5th grade batteries-and-wires experiment. It is in fact very difficult to wind a self-shorting coil from oxidized stainless. If you heat the wire to red heat with a lighter before you wind the coil it will become oxidized, and it doesn't matter how tight you wind it, it won't short. Although it will make no difference to the nichrome Nazis here on this forum, I will mention that I have a perfectly functioning rebuilt 901 atomizer with a stainless steel coil in it. All it took was a lighter, a meter, and a paper clip form to wind the coil. I hope people can refrain from posting misinformation and related BS that keeps people from experimentation and innovation. After all, this is a modder's forum, which should be encouraging creative solutions.

That's interesting about even stainless being self insulating if oxidized. I could never make an atomizer....I have never been very good at working with anything really small.

 

[exogenesis]

Tungsten has a huge coeffient of thermal resistance, as opposed to Nichrome. A forty watt bulb measures 30 ohms cold, and calculates to 300 ohms hot. That's a huge inrush current, and one that you don't want to deal with. If you hook up an ammeter to your household current, you will find that the .38 amp current that a 40 watt bulb consumes, has a 5.8 amps inrush. If you wanted a 1 amp continuous current at 5 volts dc, then tungsten would have an inrush of 10 amps. Not to mention the vacuum required.

Reading that I thought, that's true,
but the atomizer coil doesn't get to that extreme incandescent temperature.
i.e. possibly the light bulb filament is a bit of an extreme analogy ?

From
Temperature coefficient of resistance : PHYSICS OF CONDUCTORS AND INSULATORS

Metal             "alpha"
Tungsten           0.004403           
Nichrome           0.00017

i.e. at operating temperature say 300'C or less
(the coil is cooled by evaporating the e-liquid),
operating resistance might be 3 ohms to give around 1 amp or so.
From the above equation the 20'C resistance would be around 1.3 ohms,
so the brief inrush is 3 amps,
is that within (battery) practical bounds does anyone think ?

I ask cos it has a direct bearing on how much wire I use in
the long filament of thin tungsten I'm going to try & use
as a combined 'heater & wick' test 'mod'.

 

[exogenesis]

Also I tried that 'heating stainless to orange heat in air' thing,
the wire surface turned a deep blue discolouration.

Hooked two of these wires to each side of a 4.5 V supply,
brushed wires gently together on the blue parts
= Instant contact & burn-out.

Maybe it's a very much thinner oxide layer than for nichrome ?,
possibly a bit un-reliable as an insulator.

 

[kinabaloo]

You 'read' some idle speculation by someone who was too lame to do a simple 5th grade batteries-and-wires experiment. It is in fact very difficult to wind a self-shorting coil from oxidized stainless. If you heat the wire to red heat with a lighter before you wind the coil it will become oxidized, and it doesn't matter how tight you wind it, it won't short. Although it will make no difference to the nichrome Nazis here on this forum, I will mention that I have a perfectly functioning rebuilt 901 atomizer with a stainless steel coil in it. All it took was a lighter, a meter, and a paper clip form to wind the coil. I hope people can refrain from posting misinformation and related BS that keeps people from experimentation and innovation. After all, this is a modder's forum, which should be encouraging creative solutions.

These comments are really uncalled for. And very far off the mark.

It's a forum. People can and should speculate and debate - and be allowed to get things wrong (although I am not convinced that what you refer to is wrong exactly).

Hope we can maintain a friendly, helpful and encouraging atmosphere.

I like the idea of using a paperclip wire as the former; would seem about the right size. Then wetting the core material to slip it in (a la gvii). This might be much easier than trying to wind around the wicking material directly (as RjG did by holding the material taut using a vice).

 

[kinabaloo]

Here's a VERY rough drawing of what I did. I don't know if it's the proper way to do it, but it seems to be working very well. To be honest, I'm surprised the coild lasted as long as they have. The wick in the other one I replaced was extremely bad. It was almost baked to the point it was almost like ash, and it literally fell apart like an ash from a cigarette. The coil also had a heavy build-up of crust despite me being fairly diligent about cleaning them. I think this may have had something to do with the fact that the wick was so bad it really wasn't wicking much to the coil. Which was also probably why vapor production was pretty unremarkable.

I know it's a little hard to tell from my Rembrandt of a picture there, lol, so I'll also explain how I did it.

I made the wick considerably longer than the coil, and much wider than the mouth of the ceramic pot. I folded the ends of the wick up over the sides of the pot, and then wrapped the steel mesh over that to hold them down and in place. I think this is what they attempted to do originally, but whatever material they used for the wick degraded quickly, and was falling apart in the atomizer.

Again, I don't know if this is the correct way to do it, and if someone believes this to be a bad idea for whatever reason, please tell me. But I can say it made a considerable difference in how they worked. And for all I can tell, it's been nothing but good. The coils even seems to be holding up a little better as well, though that may be just due to pure luck.

Anyway, I hope this makes sense and helps someone out. And I apologize for being so long winded. Been a long weekend, lol...


h ttp://i651 DOT photobucket DOT com/albums/uu238/gvikar/wickreplacement DOT jpg

Grrr... I don't have enough posts to post links, so take out the space in http, and replace the DOTs with periods, lol...

Link to gvii's image: http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu238/gvikar/wickreplacement.jpg

I think you'll be a real bonus to the modding community Adjusting the pressure switch is pretty hard core !

I like the idea of bevelling the vent hole to reduce whistlng noise - great idea

At least on some e-cigs, the inner material does seem to degrade to a black almost powder state. I think there's some variability between models and makes.

Surprised that connecting the coil wicking to the metal wicking worked for you. It might make the coil too wet (?) and the pot and its inlets redundant. Seems the juice flow is either just right, or actually it contributes nothing.

It will be interesting to hear how it goes with the tungsten wire ...

 

[surbitonPete]

Also I tried that 'heating stainless to orange heat in air' thing,
the wire surface turned a deep blue discolouration.

Hooked two of these wires to each side of a 4.5 V supply,
brushed wires gently together on the blue parts
= Instant contact & burn-out.

Maybe it's a very much thinner oxide layer than for nichrome ?,
possibly a bit un-reliable as an insulator.

Hmmm......I don't think I will plan anything using the idea that oxidised stainless steel is self insulating then exo......lol.

 

[kinabaloo]

That's interesting about even stainless being self insulating if oxidized. I could never make an atomizer....I have never been very good at working with anything really small.

Pete - It is very fiddly, no way to fudge the fact; like watchmaking say. But with a vice and some tools and one of those bench magnifier pole things, you could do it !

ps: steel alloys come in so many versions; might work with a particular type but the comment was just too glib; most stainless steels have no oxide in any practical sense.

pps: How's the atty holding up??

 

[surbitonPete]

Pete - It is very fiddly, no way to fudge the fact; like watchmaking say. But with a vice and some tools and one of those bench magnifier pole things, you could do it !

ps: steel alloys come in so many versions; might work with a particular type but the comment was just too glib; most stainless steels have no oxide in any practical sense.

pps: How's the atty holding up??

I feel scared to say anything kinaba.....another day and my atty is still working as good as new.

 

[kinabaloo]

Pete - great ! This would be a wow thing if not fringed by the bitter-sweetness of seemingly failed universality. I can understand why this approach could be bad news for atys already gunked beyond repair, but that it can kill a new atty is a real shame. Of course will depend on atty model, duration, voltage and supply type etc. But all atty coils should be able to be heated to red-hot for 20seconds without failing.

I am thinking how Sun reported 3 new atys died dong this. Not sure if there have been other reports like it that used new attys. Hopefully, that experience would be rare.

 

[kinabaloo]

Yes, but you'd have to assume that none of the fiberglass particles could possible break loose/free and get carried with the vapor/air. I'm new to e-cigs and not an expert by any stretch (actually, I joined more out of interest for the devices and their controversy than anything else), so please feel free to enlighten me, it's what I'm here for!

I have wondered about this too. And close up photos inside used attys do show stray short strand-like bits.

It's possible to get the end cap of a cart in some cases and put a cut down (in length and circumference) filter from an analog in there; would guard against juice leaks too. And would later allow a microscope investigation.

 

[surbitonPete]

Pete - great ! This would be a wow thing if not fringed by the bitter-sweetness of seemingly failed universality. I can understand why this approach could be bad news for atys already gunked beyond repair, but that it can kill a new atty is a real shame. Of course will depend on atty model, duration, voltage and supply type etc. But all atty coils should be able to be heated to red-hot for 20seconds without failing.

I am thinking how Sun reported 3 new atys died dong this. Not sure if there have been other reports like it that used new attys. Hopefully, that experience would be rare.

That's the trouble.......my very next coil might break on it's very first burn. There just isn't anything that makes me feel any kind of problem solved confidence.

 

[kinabaloo]

Pete - it can easily sound like doubting the messenger, but it is hard to see why a new atty could fail by doing this. The only thing I can think of is that it melts the solder joint.

 

[surbitonPete]

With regards to the possibility of inhaling strands of wicking material ......I am being quite surprised by just how many little black particles have been caught by the filter I have put in my mouthpiece, it's not been very much but it's still enough for me to decide that I won't be vaping anymore 'without' having any kind of particle filtration in my mouthpieces.

 

[kinabaloo]

Oh I didnt know you worked ou that one too already !

When i was modding carts I realised that possibility but don't actually use a filter normally.

I wonder if that's why you get a shortened atty life Pete - because even if slight you are cutting down the cooling by reducing the airflow. You could offset that by enlarging the inlet hole since you use a manual switch

 

[surbitonPete]

Oh I didnt know you worked ou that one too already !

When i was modding carts I realised that possibility but don't actually use a filter normally.

I wonder if that's why you get a shortened atty life Pete - because even if slight you are cutting down the cooling by reducing the airflow. You could offset that by enlarging the inlet hole since you use a manual switch

No that won't be anything to do with my poor atty life Kinaba...because I have only recently put the filtration in...(unless it's actually helping!!) I am just being surprised and also a little shocked by how many particles of black gunk have been caught by it.

 

[kinabaloo]

I dont suppose you have a micoscope but any thread like ones as seen through a magnifier?

It makes sense to have a filter for this reason. If it is not too tight it need not affect air-flow too much but there is another drawback : the filter will get damp quite quickly and start to absorb the nicotine and perhaps flavors too from the vapor. Perhaps a single layer nylon mesh lke for filtering coffee grounds would be better (non-absorbant).

 

[surbitonPete]

I dont suppose you have a micoscope but any thread like ones as seen through a magnifier?

It makes sense to have a filter for this reason. If it is not too tight it need not affect air-flow too much but there is another drawback : the filter will get damp quite quickly and start to absorb the nicotine and perhaps flavors too from the vapor. Perhaps a single layer nylon mesh lke for filtering coffee grounds would be better (non-absorbant).

I do have one of those USB microscopes...but I haven't been using it to check the filter......the trouble is the thing I am using is a kind of stainless steel mesh that has a similarity to the metal wicking mesh..and it's absolutely perfect for the job...it barely restricts airflow but will trap 'very' small particles....it's something I had in my toolbox from my engineering days and if my memory is correct they were used for air filtration in the pneumatic controls on some of the machines... as you say it does get wet and I have to wash and dry it every night. ...I am just not sure if any other material would do the job as well....... anything else might get too wet too often. It's something that needs experimenting with.