Wire suggestions

[Tinksfloppyears]

It nice you have all 3 to try out to see what you like. Be aware that after your experimental phase, you can dry burn the coils when you change your wicks (go a little light on that with the SS just short pulses and glowing a low orange, white hit isn't good for the metal). You can get a coil to last you several months before you need to change it because it just won't clean up, you bent it too much wicking it, or you're just plain bored and want something to do. That much wire will last you many years unless you start the down the dozen RTAs running and spinning fancy wire path, in which case you're still set for a few years, although you might want some other gauge wire (if you spin you need really thin 32-36G for the wrap). But for a mtl tank like that or others complex coils are just not a good match and you're best off doing what you currently are. Have fun with it!

Right on. Its been a blast so far.

Kanthal. Nough said.

I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

Thanks all for the info and tips

 

[bombastinator]

If you really want to be safe, do not exceed 420°F. That figure is somewhat controversial, but I've seen evidence of bad stuff being created in higher temps, so I usually start at 360 or so and, say, 25 watts, and take it from there. YMMV, as always.

I heard 460f. It’s not a bad suggestion though. Cellulose burns at 451f so i generally keep mine to 450f myself

 

[Katya]

I heard 460f. It’s not a bad suggestion though. Cellulose burns at 451f so i generally keep mine to 450f myself

My information comes mostly from this (old and locked) thread.

New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

Plenty of data, test results and some random speculation also. But it was enough to convince me to stay below the 420°mark. Again, my choice and my decision based on what I've read... YMMV.

 

[KurtVD]

If you decide to play with TC more, while there is the safety issue of not getting the coil too hot to increase the production of nasty crap, it also makes for a very smooth vape. Of course that depends how you vape. I like a longer draw, so with TC it's not going to be too hot at the end of a 6 or 7 second draw. But that's as not a common draw for mtl, so from that perspective it's less useful for the experience. But if you like long pulls that get a little too toasty after several seconds, TC will handle that. It also protects you from a dry wick and a dry hit, not to be underestimated.

I agree, if you make a coil with SS316 wire, it's worth to try out vaping with TC enabled. Before I knew TC existed and how it worked, I had tried power curves (in Arctic Fox), but it's just not the same: some juices need to be heated enough right at the beginning, otherwise they taste bad/differently, but without TC, at the required wattage for good taste, if you like to take slow draws, it gets too hot after just one or two seconds - and that's where TC is fantastic.

 

[bombastinator]

My information comes mostly from this (old and locked) thread.

New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

Plenty of data, test results and some random speculation also. But it was enough to convince me to stay below the 420°mark. Again, my choice and my decision based on what I've read... YMMV.

Started to read it till I saw 309 pages(!). I’m not sure I could find anything in that. You may be correct though. My data came from a statement made around here somewhere that someone had done some testing and after about 460f strange and scary stuff started to emerge from well used coils. My thought was “that must be the wick starting to burn” so I keep it below that. Your number may very well be more accurate than mine. I was never able to get a decent vape below about 430f myself though so that may have influenced my attitude.

In any event lower is probably better.

I have seen decent wick and coil life improvements from wattage mode at the 450f setting. Not sure how much that means.

 

[Tinksfloppyears]

Dropped in a Kanthal coil for kicks and giggles. Did 6 wraps with 3ml (or something close) to attain around 1.0 ohm resistance. Nailed it... 1.01ohms right now and running it at 14.5 watts on an old pico. Seems kinda smoother for some reason, can't imagine why that would be, must just be me.

I need to work on my wicking game for sure though. I'm never really sure if I have too much or too little cotton. Guess its something you get a feel for with time and experience.

 

[Katya]

Started to read it till I saw 309 pages(!).

My thought was “that must be the wick starting to burn” so I keep it below that.

In my case (and the point of the thread), it's no so much about the wick burning but about e-juice components beginning to degrade above 420°. I honestly haven't burned a wick (in wattage mode) in years, but the findings that VG and PG (and possibly flavorings?) start to degrade into various nasties (acrolein, formaldehyde) without us noticing anything made me think. And since I choose to vape defensively anyway--you know, low cloud volume, plenty of airflow, no coil overheating, minimal or no flavorings, etc.--I'm perfectly fine in that range.

 

[Katya]

Did 6 wraps with 3ml

If you meant to say 3 mm, then it's close to what I do. My favorite build is 2.5 mm diameter coil (or so), 28 or 29g Kanthal, just about 1Ω. Perfect for my relaxed MTL vaping.

I need to work on my wicking game for sure though. I'm never really sure if I have too much or too little cotton. Guess its something you get a feel for with time and experience.

Practice, practice. You'll get there. I suggest you watch some YouTube videos--Phil Busardo's videos are always good and instructional. Keep in mind that cotton does expand when wet, so you don't want to overstuff your coils as the wicking will be impeded. OTH, the cotton should be in contact with the coil to avoid hot spots and to ensure perfect juice vaporization.

 

[Tinksfloppyears]

If you meant to say 3 mm, then it's close to what I do. My favorite build is 2.5 mm diameter coil (or so), 28 or 29g Kanthal, just about 1Ω. Perfect for my relaxed MTL vaping.

Lol, for sure, that's what I meant. Or at least somewhere close to that. I don't actually use a coil rod or anything, just kinda guestimating on the diameters based on ohms and wraps and Steam Engine info.

So far I'm diggin it alot. Working really well.

 

[Mordacai]

Hello @Tinksfloppyears, the old school way of coil wrapping was to use a drill bit.

I personally use stainless steel knitting needles, but something like these ideas may work well for you.

 

[Tinksfloppyears]

I personally use stainless steel knitting needles, but something like these ideas may work well for you.

Nice, both of those are great ideas, been using a set of allen wrenches, seem to work pretty well and have been able to match wraps with ohms almost spot on. Just learning what I prefer i.e. spaced or contact etc..

 

[Mordacai]

Contact coils are usually used in wattage or power mode, as they can create electrical contacts between the wraps. Also I've noticed that they gunk up quickly.

Spaced are usually used with TC or Temperature Control, as there's no electrical bridging between the wraps. As TC uses the change in resistance to determine the temperature. Also they don't seem to gunk up as quickly.

Allen or Hex keys, novel idea. Hexagonal coils.

 

[Tinksfloppyears]

I've been using wattage for the most part, probably just because thats what I'm used to, coming from a long time MTL pod user (or the closest thing to that). But haven't had a whole lot of success using TC, might be because I'm using an old Pico 75w, but more likely because I'm not using the function right and even more likely because I flat out don't understand how to use it at all.

 

[Mordacai]

It's a bit of a learning curve with TC @Tinksfloppyears, but it's not that terrible.

One of the best practices is to adjust the TCR (Temperature Coefficient of Resistance) for the material that the wire is made from, this increases the accuracy of the TC mode. I use SS316L and it's TCR is around 88.

Maximum Temperature setting is 250°C, adjust to your liking or preference.

Also you need to adjust the Wattage sent to the coil to initially heat it up until it reaches Temperature and then the Wattage is throttled to keep it at Temperature, Watt Calculator for Android can get you close and I'm sure that there's many more apps like it available for iOS. Higher Wattage will get the coil to Temperature sooner, but can make the vape harsher and or possibly start to burn the coil somewhat. Too low a Wattage and the coil doesn't reach Temperature.

TC can only be used with Titanium (Ti), Stainless Steel (SS), Nickel (Ni) and Nickel - Iorn (NiFe). Ti and Ni can only be used in TC mode and cannot be dry burned, due to them giving off toxic products. SS can be used with either TC or Wattage modes without any issues.

Kanthal (FeCrAl) can only be used in wattage mode, this is because when it is heated it's resistance barely changes and most mods are unable to measure it.

Also I have checked for you and found out that that your Pico 75 is supported by Artic Fox & NFE Tools, they're after market firmware and software that add more functionality.

NFE Team

Artic Fox & NFE Tools may well be worth looking into, and they have dedicated forums if you need help or have any questions.

 

[Tinksfloppyears]

It's a bit of a learning curve with TC @Tinksfloppyears, but it's not that terrible.

That is an incredible amount of helpful information, all of which I didin't know. I had a very simplistic view of what TC was capable of. It sounds like theres the likelyhood of dialing in a really great vape experience. Looks like I have some learning to do.

I've been real suprised with what this little old pico is capable of, considering I picked it up some years ago as a starter kit (came with a Milo, can't remember what version though). It's been working great as far as form-factor goes, and since I don't need more than 15-20 watts the power is more than sufficient for this MTL RTA.

I did do a software update on it once, I'll have to look into the link provided to see if there's anything relevant.

Thanks for the tips, very helpful.

cheers.

 

[Mordacai]

You can certainly get a more consistent vape with TC. It can help reduce liquid consumption a little and extend coil life a little.

And that Artic Fox I mentioned is a modded firmware, which replaces the stock firmware and adds more functionality. And NFE Tools are a little like Evolv Escribe software that will allow you to monitor your mod and do more advanced tweaking.

And there's some great gear about that will serve you well and not cost you a small fortune.

Fasttech, 2fdeal and 3fvape are good for that.