Wismec USA's response to finding out their 20A Avatar batteries are being sold as 30A

[Mooch]

The Avatar batteries I tested, and being sold by vendors, have wraps saying the rating is 30A. The battery tests out as only being 20A though. Wismec, joyetech, and eleaf show pictures and specs only for a 20A battery on their web sites. There is no mention of a 30A rated battery. This seemed quite suspicious to me.

I emailed Wismec USA after posting my test results asking why their web sites showed a 20A battery but one with a 30A wrap was being sold. With their permission, here is their response:

Hello Battery Mooch,

Avatar has informed us that they only provide 20A/2000mah ICR Cells, reasons for why there would be a 30A in the market was not provided to us. As for reconciliation, we request to send back Avatar Cells with contact info to our facility, which the address is listed below, for testing and if approved, will be replaced with a Sony VTC4 for our Wismec fans. Like we mentioned with the electronic_cigarette subreddit community, we were not aware of the situation because we've always been supplied with the 20A cells. We do apologize on our behalf for this case, and our process of reconciliation is our way of handling the matter and to ensure that the vaping community is being helped, rather than being left with unanswered and unresolved situation.

3059 Edinger Ave.
Tustin, CA 92804
United States

Thank you
Wismec USA

While I am very happy to see Wismec USA step up to the plate and offer to exchange Avatar batteries for VTC4's (if you pay the shipping), I have a lot of concerns...

- Why hasn't Wismec and Wismec USA posted anything about this on their social media pages?

- How could Wismec, Joyetech, and Eleaf all not know that someone (Avatar Controls?) switched the rating on the wrap from 20A to 30A?

- How could Wismec, Joyetech, and Eleaf all not know that every vendor selling the Avatar battery had photos of that battery with 30A on the wrap, not 20A?

- Why weren't quality-control checks being regularly done on the batteries being sold? These are standard tests to help to identify if a lower grade battery is being used or if the battery under the wrap was switched.

- What kind of relationship is there between Avatar Controls and Wismec, Joyetech, and Eleaf where Avatar feels they can try to sneak in battery shipments with wraps that have been changed?

- If Avatar went rogue once before, what kind of assurances do we have that it won't happen again?

What is Wismec going to do to get these falsely rated batteries off the market? I'm sure that Wismec doesn't want these batteries, that were snuck onto the market without their knowledge, being sold for one second longer!

If you have any questions, thoughts, or concerns regarding all this you can email Wismec USA at service@wismec.us.

**********************************************************

My Avatar battery test report on ECF:
Wismec Avatar 30A 2000mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...something suspicious is going on

The Reddit thread Wismec USA mentions:
Wismec Avatar 30A 2000mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...something suspicious is going on • /r/electronic_cigarette

I had an interesting conversation in that thread:

 

[zoiDman]

It is Kinda Sad and Disturbing that at this stage of the e-Cigarette market we would even have to be having this Dialog with a Substantial OEM.

 

[retired1]

While I am very happy to see Wismec USA step up to the plate and offer to exchange Avatar batteries for VTC4's (if you pay the shipping), I have a lot of concerns...

- Why hasn't Wismec and Wismec USA posted anything about this on their social media pages?

- How could Wismec, Joyetech, and Eleaf all not know that someone (Avatar Controls?) switched the rating on the wrap from 20A to 30A?

- How could Wismec, Joyetech, and Eleaf all not know that every vendor selling the Avatar battery had photos of that battery with 30A on the wrap, not 20A?

- Why weren't quality-control checks being regularly done on the batteries being sold? These are standard tests to help to identify if a lower grade battery is being used or if the battery under the wrap was switched.

- What kind of relationship is there between Avatar Controls and Wismec, Joyetech, and Eleaf where Avatar feels they can try to sneak in battery shipments with wraps that have been changed?

- If Avatar went rogue once before, what kind of assurances do we have that it won't happen again?

What is Wismec going to do to get these falsely rated batteries off the market? I'm sure that Wismec doesn't want these batteries, that were snuck onto the market without their knowledge, being sold for one second longer!

It's quite simple. They really don't care as evidenced by the myriad of other batteries with dangerously over inflated ratings. They figure the batteries will be used in a regulated mod, which would negate any catastrophic issues that arose from using them with a build that would cause them to fail. What they, and other companies fail to recognize is these batteries are also used in mechanical mods, which would have catastrophic results if used improperly.

 

[sawlight]

It's like each company is its own entity under this umbrella! I won't make another Wismec purchase, period! On the other hand, I've had nothing but a great experience with Eleaf?
As per the batteries, at least Wismec is trying to do something, that's more than I can say about their other issues!

 

[retired1]

I do have to wonder, though, if the legal arm of Wismec knows about this. I have a sneaky hunch that if they knew the full ramifications of over inflating cell ratings, they'd waste no time in demanding that their resellers "cease and desist".

 

[sawlight]

I do have to wonder, though, if the legal arm of Wismec knows about this. I have a sneaky hunch that if they knew the full ramifications of over inflating cell ratings, they'd waste no time in demanding that their resellers "cease and desist".

That's a great "assumption", but we all know what that can get us!

 

[retired1]

Oh I have no doubt that if the legal brains for the company knew what was going on, they'd waste no time in implementing CYA measures. Nothing strikes fear into the legal department as the risk of liability does when a product they sell is being misrepresented.

 

[zoiDman]

Oh I have no doubt that if the legal brains for the company knew what was going on, they'd waste no time in implementing CYA measures. Nothing strikes fear into the legal department as the risk of liability does when a product they sell is being misrepresented.

Yeah... Looks like all mention of 30A has be removed from this page...

Avatar ICR 18650 Battery | Best 18650 Battery from Wismec

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Am I thinking of something else? But I thought ICR Batteries were Not Recommended in e-Cigarettes in the 1st Place.

 

[Mooch]

BTW - Am I thinking of something else? But I thought ICR Batteries were Not Recommended in e-Cigarettes in the 1st Place.

ICR's are only a problem if they are short-circuited. If the right type of ICR is shorted badly enough it can go into thermal runaway where its reaction can be a lot more violent than IMR or INR. If not short-circuited thouh it's as safe as the other chemistries. It's incredibly hard to bring a battery, of any chemistry, into runaway without short-circuiting it.

A lot depends on which chemistry the Avatar is using too. ICR isn't a chemistry. It's a manufacturer's model number prefix that is used for two very different chemistry types. One type is the same as used in LiPo's and the other type is a "hybrid" chemistry that is used in 25R's, VTC4's, VTC5's, and many LG batteries. The chemistry used in LiPo's, lithium cobalt or LCO, is the more volatile one.

 

[zoiDman]

ICR's are only a problem if they are short-circuited. If the right type of ICR is shorted badly enough it can go into thermal runaway where its reaction can be a lot more violent than IMR or INR. If not short-circuited thouh it's as safe as the other chemistries. It's incredibly hard to bring a battery, of any chemistry, into runaway without short-circuiting it.

A lot depends on which chemistry the Avatar is using too. ICR isn't a chemistry. It's a manufacturer's model number prefix that is used for two very different chemistry types. One type is the same as used in LiPo's and the other type is a "hybrid" chemistry that is used in 25R's, VTC4's, VTC5's, and many LG batteries. The chemistry used in LiPo's, lithium cobalt or LCO, is the more volatile one.

Just my Thoughts.

But if I an considering Buying a Battery. And one type has the Potential to cause a Really Bad Day (if shorted). And Another a Not so Bad Day (if shorted). What would be the Reason I would choose the 1st Battery over the Second?

 

[Mooch]

Just my Thoughts.

But if I an considering Buying a Battery. And one type has the Potential to cause a Really Bad Day (if shorted). And Another a Not so Bad Day (if shorted). What would be the Reason I would choose the 1st Battery over the Second?

Great question.
The LCO versions of ICR batteries can have unmatched performance, running at higher voltages and much more consistently during the discharge than any other chemistry. This lowers the amount of current being drawn by regulated devices and allows a mech user to get a harder hitting, more consistent vape as the battery drains.

 

[zoiDman]

Great question.
The LCO versions of ICR batteries can have unmatched performance, running at higher voltages and much more consistently during the discharge than any other chemistry. This lowers the amount of current being drawn by regulated devices and allows a mech user to get a harder hitting, more consistent vape as the battery drains.

Just My Thought Again.

But for Use in a VW Device, I don't see a Slightly Better battery performance as a Huge Plus.

And, to Me, Safety should have a Higher Consideration than performance when choosing a Battery for a Mech.

 

[DaveP]

Just My Thought Again.

But for Use in a VW Device, I don't see a Slightly Better battery performance as a Huge Plus.

And, to Me, Safety should have a Higher Consideration than performance when choosing a Battery for a Mech.

Mech vapers face the ultimate mediocre vape once the battery voltage drops below 3.7V. Mechs were a great option when eGo at 3.2v and 3.4v were king. Now, VV/VW/TC mods are king and mechs are once again looking like a desirable vape for "after the FDA outlaws everything".

I don't think the FDA will outlaw everything, but I'm stocking up on VV/VW/TC mods and RBA's that I find on sale for whatever happens next.

 

[zoiDman]

Mech vapers face the ultimate mediocre vape once the battery voltage drops below 3.7V. Mechs were a great option when eGo at 3.2v and 3.4v were king. Now, VV/VW/TC mods are king and mechs are once again looking like a desirable vape for "after the FDA outlaws everything".

I don't think the FDA will outlaw everything, but I'm stocking up on VV/VW/TC mods and RBA's that I find on sale for whatever happens next.

I have Always admired a Mech Mod's Raw Simplicity. And the Ability to tune/modify a Mech's switch using parts found in Any Hardware Store.

And a Mech's Price can make them Very Appealing.

But I believe that Anyone who uses a Mech must Never Forget that a Mech Mod can Also be a Bad Day Waiting to Happen if used Improperly. And Choice of Build for Choice of Battery has to Always be Paramount.

 

[DaveP]

I have Always admired a Mech Mod's Raw Simplicity. And the Ability to tune/modify a Mech's switch using parts found in Any Hardware Store.

And a Mech's Price can make them Very Appealing.

But I believe that Anyone who uses a Mech must Never Forget that a Mech Mod can Also be a Bad Day Waiting to Happen if used Improperly. And Choice of Build for Choice of Battery has to Always be Paramount.

I've never bought a real mech. I am buying regulated variable mods as I find them on sale. I have about 8 or 9 now and still looking. Hoosierecig.com has quite a few mechs on sale from $10 to $20 if anyone's interested. Search for MECH. It would be advisable to buy the Kick accessory to protect from shorts.

Welcome to Hoosier E-Cig - The Best E-cigs, Juices, and accesories

 

[DaveP]

Sorry for redirecting the thread in my previous post.

Re-wrapping batteries and selling them as something they are not is near crime status, especially when people rely on what's printed on the wrapper for safety.

It's why I've started buying from battery vendors who test and inspect and verify. I generally get better prices from RTDVapor and OrbTronics, too.