Wizard Labs is still down!! Any other suggestions?
- Thread starter Knuckle_Buster
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Wow personal attacks? Bro you have possibly the thinnest skin I may have ever run into. If you took something I said as a personal attack I do apologize. I didn't think the whole conspiracy theory thing would ruffle your feathers. I love them myself. Anyhow, I'm not taking my ball and going home. I simply don't feel like arguing with someone on the Internet that thinks they are better than me. Just tiresome and never really leads anywhere. You win ok. That better? Lol.
This was my response back to you. Could you please point out the personal attack so I might learn:
I bet you buy in to a lot of conspiracy theories huh. If you can accept putting something into your body that you have no clue where it's from, by all means carry on. I happen to care and think my questions were more than fair. Wholesale wouldn't sell to an individual, let alone do I have that dough. Another business? You don't think a start up business could easily find info on what labs make nic in the USA? Just seems flimsy and then a duscinnect? Either way poorly handled.
This was my response back to you. Could you please point out the personal attack so I might learn:
I bet you buy in to a lot of conspiracy theories huh. If you can accept putting something into your body that you have no clue where it's from, by all means carry on. I happen to care and think my questions were more than fair. Wholesale wouldn't sell to an individual, let alone do I have that dough. Another business? You don't think a start up business could easily find info on what labs make nic in the USA? Just seems flimsy and then a duscinnect? Either way poorly handled.
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Sure, I'll bite... From the quote above. Emphasis mine.
Conspiracy theorist = ad hominem attempt to discredit someone from the start. Putting words into my mouth -- I never said that I don't care. I simply explained the business side's point of view.
Further attempts to discredit any statements I make without actually responding to the points I bring up.
You keep jumping back to handwaving like what I said has no validity; if you are the businessman you say you are, you would understand exactly why you got the response you did. I didn't justify their attitude with closing the chat session, or hanging up on you -- simply their attitude with not sharing their business connections with some random unknown on the internet. It started purely as a neutral comment, then you tried to discredit my comments without addressing the points I brought up.
So, yes. Ad hominem personal attacks.
So... heres a legitimate question for you.
Say you found what labs are creating the nicotine for various vendors. Whether thats in the states, in Europe, in India, in China, wherever. And lets just assume (even though its never going to happen) that you got information such as the MSDS data sheets and lab analysis from all of these labs. Are you capable of even understanding what you look at when you see this? This isn't an accusation; but a direct question.
If you looked at these lab reports, and understood their contents -- and found that the purity and quality of the ones made in the states were LOWER than that from foreign sources, would your opinion still be the same that the foreign sources are a problem?
Again. I'm not trying to attack here. I'm trying to make a legitimate point; the information you're seeking really makes no difference at the end of the day if you don't have the cursory knowledge to interpret the raw data -- and if you aren't seeking the raw data attached to it, and only trying to determine country of origin and not analyzing anything relating to purity and quality, you're looking at it flawed.
If you're that concerned about the quality -- how about you don't try to force the direct source out of a vendor, since it means nothing -- and instead buy some samples of multiple brands and send them to an independent lab for purity analysis? This is a MUCH more valid argument than the xenophobic argument of "it comes from China therefore it must be bad".
Say you found what labs are creating the nicotine for various vendors. Whether thats in the states, in Europe, in India, in China, wherever. And lets just assume (even though its never going to happen) that you got information such as the MSDS data sheets and lab analysis from all of these labs. Are you capable of even understanding what you look at when you see this? This isn't an accusation; but a direct question.
If you looked at these lab reports, and understood their contents -- and found that the purity and quality of the ones made in the states were LOWER than that from foreign sources, would your opinion still be the same that the foreign sources are a problem?
Again. I'm not trying to attack here. I'm trying to make a legitimate point; the information you're seeking really makes no difference at the end of the day if you don't have the cursory knowledge to interpret the raw data -- and if you aren't seeking the raw data attached to it, and only trying to determine country of origin and not analyzing anything relating to purity and quality, you're looking at it flawed.
If you're that concerned about the quality -- how about you don't try to force the direct source out of a vendor, since it means nothing -- and instead buy some samples of multiple brands and send them to an independent lab for purity analysis? This is a MUCH more valid argument than the xenophobic argument of "it comes from China therefore it must be bad".
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/298547-nicotine-comparisons.html
Many good people spent alot of time comparing nic in this thread. Kurt the chemist also gets involved atleast at page 66 and beyound.
Its well worth the read. You will learn that there are differences in the nic. Some are more flavorless, some have more throat hit and they can oxidize and change over time. Also, there is discussion of the MSDS and purity.
Many good people spent alot of time comparing nic in this thread. Kurt the chemist also gets involved atleast at page 66 and beyound.
Its well worth the read. You will learn that there are differences in the nic. Some are more flavorless, some have more throat hit and they can oxidize and change over time. Also, there is discussion of the MSDS and purity.
Did the OP ever come back here and let us know where, if any, he bought from? just curious
This is a valid and good post. Listen, I am learning on the fly. I have been into the vaping world for all of 16 days. Maybe I was being a bit over concerned on things. You bring up great points here.
That all being said though, I will again say I was not trying to discredit you when I said conspiracy theorist. What I was saying is that me calling them as someone who was trying to steal their supply was much less likely than an actual customer looking for answers. Thus the conspiracy comment. Its a joke bud. I can only assume you have not had a lot of joking male friends in your life. (this is not an attack) I have 3 brothers and we constantly rag on each other in this manner, as well as most of my guy friends. If I wanted to personally attack you, I am sure I could have come up with something a lot worse than you buy into conspiracy theories, right? If you go back after that, you really were the one who escalated the conversation. My first post really was saying the customer service sucked, which I stand by.
I get your point... but its pretty clear when and why you made the statement; it was an attempt to gloss over the point I'd made as you felt it ignored your own point. That's really the reason it classifies as an attack. You're getting 'personal attacks' mixed up with 'ad hominim personal attacks' -- the difference being the directness. In a personal attack, you're coming at me and trying to attack me balls-out. In the ad hominim version, its not about attacking me -- its about making my points look like they're not coming from level ground and therefore you win by default. This is my complaint.
I understand the harassing eachother and male alpha characterizations -- I spent many years in a shop environment and have heard/seen it all.. but you also have to remember that in person, you can hear infliction in voice and expressions of face, thus leading to a better understanding of someones intent. In text, you have only one option: be direct. When you start trying to obfuscate someones points without responding to their questions, you get hostility back -- because in text you can't hear sarcasm. Yes, I escalated the conversation. But, I escalated the conversation because, as I pointed out, you tried to gloss over facts that I presented, and make it like I was just a wingnut that was taking things the wrong way.
Just remember -- spoken dialect and written dialect are VERY different -- if you're trying to be funny, make it clear -- same with being negative.
Edit: And for the record, I don't believe for a second that you intended those barbs as 'jokes'. In the context, it was very clearly trying to discredit any truth behind my statements simply because it didn't jive with yours.
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The Bubble we are in
This thread and several others outline an interesting, unique situation we are in.
Use of e-cigs is growing exponentially
People quickly learn of the massive savings of mixing their own juice
The FDA, we fear, will impose restrictions or taxes on nicotine sales and distribution
There has been a surge in DIY purchasing
Suppliers are expanding their facilities and falling behind
This bubble will soon burst. Folks like myself have bought 5 years worth of high concentrate nicotine and won't be restocking anytime soon. I hope our suppliers are well prepared for the coming shortage of orders, assuming the FDA doesn't put them out of business by this time next year....
This thread and several others outline an interesting, unique situation we are in.
Use of e-cigs is growing exponentially
People quickly learn of the massive savings of mixing their own juice
The FDA, we fear, will impose restrictions or taxes on nicotine sales and distribution
There has been a surge in DIY purchasing
Suppliers are expanding their facilities and falling behind
This bubble will soon burst. Folks like myself have bought 5 years worth of high concentrate nicotine and won't be restocking anytime soon. I hope our suppliers are well prepared for the coming shortage of orders, assuming the FDA doesn't put them out of business by this time next year....
waiting patiently here in IA for either RTS, MFS, or WL to get stock back in.
I have, in the past, had a good experience using onestopdiyshop's 36mg base. They are only one state away from me (MN) so shipping was super fast.
I was getting flavors ordered at the time, tried it on a lark, was pleasantly surprised.
back to the original topic...
My last order from WL was identical to the others mentioned in earlier posts. Got 120mL/100mg, showed up in an amber (nearly black) plastic widemouth screw-top bottle. Triple bagged in ziplock, then wrapped at least twice around in bubble wrap. *Then* packed into a padded envelope for shipping. Made it from FL to IA in 3 days.
Plus you can't beat the prices.
That's why I'm reloading the website every 30mins and watching my stock notification mailbox!
I have, in the past, had a good experience using onestopdiyshop's 36mg base. They are only one state away from me (MN) so shipping was super fast.
I was getting flavors ordered at the time, tried it on a lark, was pleasantly surprised.
back to the original topic...
My last order from WL was identical to the others mentioned in earlier posts. Got 120mL/100mg, showed up in an amber (nearly black) plastic widemouth screw-top bottle. Triple bagged in ziplock, then wrapped at least twice around in bubble wrap. *Then* packed into a padded envelope for shipping. Made it from FL to IA in 3 days.
Plus you can't beat the prices.
That's why I'm reloading the website every 30mins and watching my stock notification mailbox!
I am sensing this as well. The FDA regulations that are being considered made me re-evaluate my base stockpile, which is why I am here needing WL to re-open!
I tried to find a thread on this, but was unable to locate one...
RTS's thread?--
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lity-flavorless-nicotine-liquid-made-usa.html
To order, just google RTS vapes or something.?
Did the OP ever come back here and let us know where, if any, he bought from? just curious
I just gave him the link to the rts thread, I think that was what he was looking for.
Ha I agreed with EVERYTHING you said up until your edit. Simply different points in the initial comment. Perhaps a return button would have helped with that. I already described my thought process on it so I won't again.
And you shouldn't feel the need to justify your opinions or why you did things to me. Likewise, I don't feel I have to justify my opinion of what you threw at me -- and my impression of it stands. I've been on the receiving end of it enough times to know it.
"if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... its probably not a bull."
My impression of your reasoning will not be altered by backpedaling -- and neither will yours of mine -- but none of that matters. Taking this to personal levels isn't what its about; its about facts. Thats all I want out there, and I felt your posts were missing certain key elements and pointed them out. Nothing more.
All I posted was facts. I am not sure what you are talking about. In my initial post I simply commented on the experience I had with them, correct? I am unsure how anything that I said could be misconstrued as opinion. It's what happened, plain and simple. Nothing more.
That being said, and with your last comment, I am just done with this lol. It really is just silly at this point.
Yep, taken exactly as I expected it to be.
My facts were not the same as your facts. I didn't say your statements didn't contain any; I said they didn't contain the ones *I* brought up. These are not one and the same; I am not you, and you are not me.
If you can't understand that you already have an internally averse reaction to any comment from me based on your own commentary, you're ignoring subconscious reactions. I openly recognize that I was offended by you trying to blow off the points I tried to make without refuting any of the details within them. Which you still haven't done, by the way, making the ad hominem status I pointed out all the more obvious.
This will also be my last comment on the topic. You continue thinking that anything I'm saying is directed at you and trying to make you look bad, and I'll continue making the point that you're missing the bigger picture of safety and concerns here, and ignoring WHY a business would react to you the way they did. We'll clearly never see eye to eye, so any continuation is just a waste of space.
G'day!
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