wrong about ecig strength?

[hgielm1]

Please see this article:
E-cig News: Dr. Laugesen's report on the Ruyan e-cigarette as shown to the Society for Research on Nicotine & Tobacco conference in Dublin April, 2009

If this is true, that it takes 72 puffs on an e-cig to equal ONE tobacco cigarette, then those of us who have been worrying about getting too much nicotine from the cartridges do not need to worry any more. 72 puffs would be about 7 cartridges of liquid to equal ONE regular cigarette.

What do you all think? Maybe the nicotine is not getting absorbed very well at all. Before I increase my nicotine intake on the ecigs, I'd like to know your thoughts.

 

[hgielm1]

Well, I wasn't really awake when I typed my original message.
Say one gets 35 "puffs" from an ecig cartridge. Even at that rate though, according to this doc, I'd only be getting 1/2 of a regular cigarette from a whole ecig cartridge.
The original things I heard about ecigs said that 1 cartridge equalled about 1 PACK of regular cigs.
Just confused.

 

[Babachoo]

As I understand it, mostly because of Kate being a wealth of information, the typical cigarette contains around 1mg of nicotine. A penstyle cart holds about 1ml of juice, so if you used 36mg juice in a penstyle, one cart's worth of vaping would equal around 36 cigarettes. So your math is a little off, but I confess to not reading the link because the math you're proposing is so off, I doubt that the link says anything to corroborate your computations. If it does, then it's probably just more marketing BS that means nothing, unfortunately. Hope that helps. Also keep in mind that there are a ton of variables that come into play such as nicotine absorption efficiency rates of analogs versus vaping, different strength juices, etc.. But for one cart to be equal to one cigarette, it would have to be like 1mg/ml strength nicotine, which nobody sells, and nobody would probably bother to cut their own DIY mixes that low.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure exactly how many puffs you'd average from an 801 cart, but it's definitely not 35. I'd say closer to 150-180 or so.

 

[ZambucaLu]

Moved out of newb forum. Please post in appropriate forums.

Thank you,
Lu

 

[frightline]

From what was told to me by JC. I went through this all in depth last Sat. so i know how confusing it all is.Here is what i found.Using a 24mg of JC juice.It equates to 24mg of nicotine in 1.3ml of smoke juice which equals roughly 23 cartridges per bottle.So as a former newport smoker this would be about a pack(22mg) per 1.3ml (really 24mg).As was stated earlier, it is very very hard to calculate because of all the variables.You probably can get close but never exact!I am now offically on week 2 of being analog free and can't believe that it worked instantly! I have spread the word to at least 5 others about e cigs.3 of them were complete strangers.Sorry, i don't mean to rattle on but this is very exciting for me.

 

[Tugger]

so why does tobacco nicotine adhere to the lungs better? Does it stick to smoke particulates?

 

[dohsma]

As I understand it, mostly because of Kate being a wealth of information, the typical cigarette contains around 1mg of nicotine. A penstyle cart holds about 1ml of juice, so if you used 36mg juice in a penstyle, one cart's worth of vaping would equal around 36 cigarettes. So your math is a little off, but I confess to not reading the link because the math you're proposing is so off, I doubt that the link says anything to corroborate your computations. If it does, then it's probably just more marketing BS that means nothing, unfortunately. Hope that helps. Also keep in mind that there are a ton of variables that come into play such as nicotine absorption efficiency rates of analogs versus vaping, different strength juices, etc.. But for one cart to be equal to one cigarette, it would have to be like 1mg/ml strength nicotine, which nobody sells, and nobody would probably bother to cut their own DIY mixes that low.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure exactly how many puffs you'd average from an 801 cart, but it's definitely not 35. I'd say closer to 150-180 or so.

The 36 mg for 1 cart would be true if you absorbed all the nicotine, which is most certainly not the case. Smoking a cigarette yields approximately 1 mg
of nicotine. Before it's smoked it probably contains closer to 15-20mg.

 

[Babachoo]

The 36 mg for 1 cart would be true if you absorbed all the nicotine, which is most certainly not the case. Smoking a cigarette yields approximately 1 mg
of nicotine. Before it's smoked it probably contains closer to 15-20mg.

Do you have any links to back that up? As far as I know each cigarette contains around .8 to 1.2mg of nicotine, as in contains not will yield that much into the bloodstream.

 

[dohsma]

Do you have any links to back that up? As far as I know each cigarette contains around .8 to 1.2mg of nicotine, as in contains not will yield that much into the bloodstream.

Nicotine poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Doesn't give exact figures for how much nicotine is in a cigarette but it states that

"Sixty milligrams of nicotine has the potential to kill an adult,[1] which is the amount of nicotine in about five cigarettes or half a cigar, if all of the nicotine were absorbed."

That would mean 12mg per cig. I would venture to guess it would vary by brand. I have read (don't have a link to back it up sorry) that the mg content on packaging comes from the amount that is absorbed, when tested on the puff machines.

Sorry I would provide more links but I'm short on time this morning.

 

[Babachoo]

Nicotine poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Doesn't give exact figures for how much nicotine is in a cigarette but it states that

"Sixty milligrams of nicotine has the potential to kill an adult,[1] which is the amount of nicotine in about five cigarettes or half a cigar, if all of the nicotine were absorbed."

That would mean 12mg per cig. I would venture to guess it would vary by brand. I have read (don't have a link to back it up sorry) that the mg content on packaging comes from the amount that is absorbed, when tested on the puff machines.

Sorry I would provide more links but I'm short on time this morning.

Thanks for the link. I wish someone would pursue a study to really nail down a lot more facts when it comes to vaping and the general "vaping versus smoking" questions we all have...someone without any agenda at all, just so it would be accurate and thorough information in the interest of consumer and regulators alike.

 

[happily]

I can honestly say that I get more nicotine from e-cig's than cigs..........in the quitting process now and get no enjoyment whatsoever from analog's

I think the fact that it's so easy to get off analog's should be considered as your scientific data

 

[taz3cat]

Big Tobacco put 10mg nicotine in each analog we only get about <1> mg. Some of it just burns up, when me make vapor some of it burns up and there are other factors and chemical that BT put in the tobacco to help us absorb the nicotine.

 

[Babachoo]

Another HUGE factor is the fact that 99% of the vapor we create IS inhaled, save for 1% left inside the little rubber mouthpiece. Analogs sit there and burn like a chimney while we aren't puffing on them, whereas ecigs are much more efficiently used and little to none of the nicotine is wasted. So maybe the nic levels are lower, but we're not watching half of our nicotine blow away in the wind until after we've inhaled and absorbed it.

 

[Sumratio]

I actually think it is easier to control your nicotine intake by vaping versus smoking. I have read there is up to 25 mg of nicotine in a cigarette but due to the burning process and the ability of the body to absorb it through smoke you only get 1-2 mg per cig. If that is the case then when I smoked 25 cigs a day I was getting 25-50 mg of nicotine. With vaping you absorb more of the nicotine and less nicotine is destroyed by heat. I vape about 1.5 ml of 18 mg/ml juice for about 27mg of nicotine a day which is on the low end of the smoking equation. There is less guessing going on with vaping and it is easier to reduce the nicotine content without changing your habits. That is my take on all the information anyway.

 

[DigDreams]

I vape about 1.5 ml of 18 mg/ml juice for about 27mg of nicotine a day which is on the low end of the smoking equation.

It seems to me that you are actually getting alot less than the raw numbers of how much liquid you vape. If you vape 27mg of nicotine that means you got 27mg if you absorbed 100% of what you inhaled. I would guess that the majority of the niccotine is exhaled along with the vapor leaving you with a fraction of that amount.

 

[katink]

Yet there is the number in the NZ-studies, that around 98% or more gets taken in, leaving at most 2% that would be in any vapor that is being exhaled.
It all remains quite puzzling for now...

 

[Tom09]

...that around 98% or more gets taken in, leaving at most 2% that would be in any vapor that is being exhaled...

This "98% nicotine absorption" number had been adopted from combustion cigarette smoke. In his 2008 ecig reports, Laugesen simply assumed that it could be just the same for e-cig vapor. However, in 2009, Laugesen’s study group reported [thread=15034] actual data on blood nicotine levels [/thread] and particle sice measurements (crucial for the site and effectiveness of nicotine absorption). These new results indicate that uptake of nicotine is far less effective than had been anticipated. Now we know that the "98% absorption" figure does not hold true for vapor. Estimates of nicotine delivery overestimate the realistic value - if such estimates are based on the assumption of equivalent nicotine delivery from combustion smoke and ecig vapor.

 

[Nuck]

Yet there is the number in the NZ-studies, that around 98% or more gets taken in, leaving at most 2% that would be in any vapor that is being exhaled.
It all remains quite puzzling for now...

That NZ 'study' is quite suspect. They reference values they didn't test themselves and the methodology of what they did test was quite poor. It reads like a press release and definitely contains a LOT of bogus information.

 

[Nuck]

This "98% nicotine absorption" number had been adopted from combustion cigarette smoke. In his 2008 ecig reports, Laugesen simply assumed that it could be just the same for e-cig vapor. However, in 2009, Laugesen’s study group reported [thread=15034] actual data on blood nicotine levels [/thread] and particle sice measurements (crucial for the site and effectiveness of nicotine absorption). These new results indicate that uptake of nicotine is far less effective than had been anticipated. Now we know that the "98% absorption" figure does not hold true for vapor. Estimates of nicotine delivery overestimate the realistic value - if such estimates are based on the assumption of equivalent nicotine delivery from combustion smoke and ecig vapor.

Exactly. After actually reading the initial study I've decided to treat any 'studies' from that source as unreliable. They apparently have no issues with skewing the data.

 

[Tom09]

...quite suspect ...bogus information.

Um, that’s not how I wanted to come across (non-native speaker alert). Granted that the previous reports read as if they had been written quite hasty. And certainly, I would have preferred some publication that could held up to higher standards (and included more careful discussions). However, not much had been known at times when those prelimnary reports had been compiled. Within this framework, it was legitimate to run with the knowns from cigarette smoke. I think it was made clear in the reports that some estimates did rely on certain assumptions, not on actual data. They have not been skewing data, no data was available at that time. New results should tell us that some previously hold assumptions have to be modified. Maybe Laugesen’s writing style is not perfect and he may have priorities besides ecigs (so we had to wait for experimental results). That’s not a point, however, to question his credibility.