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Wrong Question Being Asked...

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by Snarkyone, Sep 25, 2009.

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  1. Snarkyone

    Snarkyone Super Member ECF Veteran

    It's a shame that with the technology available to us and the proven fact that the things work 1000% better than ANY OTHER SMOKING CESSATION DEVICE ON THE MARKET, that since the right pockets aren't being lined the government wants to step in with their bs about safety.

    Safety? Really... that's what they want to go with safety? From the people that allow cigarettes to be consumed in record numbers despite the proven FACTS THAT THEY KILL along with ALCOHOL which is also a POISON, and also proven FACT THAT ALCOHOL KILLS as well causing cirrhosis of the liver and death. Throw in all the pain and messed up families left in the wake of an alcoholic, and yet you can buy and consume that stuff 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Ok then, now on to tobacco cigarettes vs e-cigs. How many toxic and cancerous items are found in tobacco smoke??? Something like 4000 right? In test run on E-Cigs found on average something like 1 or less. Wonder which one is safer?

    Don't look me in the face and talk to me about safety as being the reason for the ban, that's just idiotic. Everything in the things is currently in use in everyday food and other things consumed by humans. The e-juice? Ingredients: Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerin for producing the vapor, Lorann Flavor Oils (or similar), nicotine. That's it, not a single thing is burned, no flames, no outrageous chemicals inhaled. The parts in a E-Cig perhaps? I don't think so the only thing that gets hot is the atomizer which is stainless steel which doesn't get hot enough to produce any vapors from the stainless steel or any other component except perhaps the plastic of the filter tip but it doesn't come in contact with that or close enough to melt it.

    The bottom line is that the wrong people are making money on this and the "right" people are losing money on them. Who are the two biggest losers if E-Cigs become a rampant success and millions of people start using them and quit smoking tobacco? Off the top of my head I would say first off the obvious, big tobacco stands to lose billions upon billions in today and future sales. We are talking the potential demise of an industry really. It could open the doors to the banning of tobacco. Since you can get your nicotine in a safe and effective way why should tobacco cigarettes be legal anymore? That's the question they don't want anyone asking. The second group to lose big if millions of smokers stop smoking and start living a healthier lifestyle and you won't want to admit it but the health industry stands to lose just as much money as the tobacco industry from the drop in tobacco related health cost and care.

    The really scary part of that is that these two groups lose not just this generation of smokers but the next and if the scenario I propose of banning tobacco cigarettes now that we have a safe and effective alternative with E-Cigs then all future generations. RJ Reynolds company execs are crapping in their pants at the thought of that. This ain't about safety it's what it is always about, money and who is making it. Don't get caught up in the wrong argument by asking the wrong question, that's how they have been doing this game since the beginning of time.

    OK enough of my rant for now, 2 weeks without a cigarette and I feel GREAT!
  2. RIMP

    RIMP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

  3. NekoGurrl

    NekoGurrl Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2009
    Muskego, WI
    Very well put! It always comes down to the first thing they tell investigative journalists, back when the could make into print.

    Follow the Money Trail.

    Most of the vocal anti e-cig groups are sponsored by Big Pharma companies that make smoking cessation products. You know they will have the FDA require the manufactures to change the devices so that they will only work with a cartridge, no more tasty juice, and the maximum strength made infective, just like their BP cousins.

    Unfortunately the future of vaping right now rests in the hands of one judge in Florida.

    Dito on getting off analogs, I stopped on 9/9/09, part way thru a pack. Didn't plan it, just worked out that way.
  4. Crooooooow!

    Crooooooow! Full Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    Please keep this in mind - China does not give a **** about international laws. They will continue to manufacture electronic cigarettes as well as the juice, regardless of what laws the FDA decides to throw at us. Sure it may put an end to U.S. based suppliers, but thats about it.They will continue to ship products right to your door. Even if they make special carts that cannot be refilled, rest assure, China will make "black market" carts to be installed on "FDA approved" vaping devices. I am sure Mooby Ghost will figure out a way to mod one as well......when the time comes.

  5. Snarkyone

    Snarkyone Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oh no I am so scared that the government will make these illegal. Then what will we do, maybe have them smuggled in with the ......... shipments since we all know what a crap job they do of stopping that. I have never had any problems finding that stuff and it's been outlawed for years. These are a marriage made in heaven for smuggling with pot, ironic in a way.
  6. Blooper

    Blooper Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2009
    the war on drugs is such a farce.
  7. Kate51

    Kate51 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 27, 2009
    Argyle Wi USA
    The thing that bothers the Smoke Stoppers groups ( S.S. ~ Sound familiar?) is the fact that these marvelous machines is that there could be some nicotine in the juice!! Now they're trying to call them ENDS (Electronic Nicotine Delivery System) so that the FDA will have jurisdiction over the possible importation of not only the Devices for Nicotine use (when in all reality is nothing more than a portable fog machine) but also the juices that contain nicotine. Got 'cha! That way, nicotine, being a drug, and the devices, being for drug use, are now falling under the thumb of Big Brother, the same thumb that Big Pharma and Big Tobacco help hold down all the creepy little guys that are trying to side-step the system. Oh No!! Competition?? This is our turf. As in "astro". As in "taxable". Better than cigarettes? And who pray tell cares about that.

    Me. That's 1. I think there's a few others.

    Yes, I want it to be safe. Regulate away. It's the nic juice that's bothers them so much, so legislate safety, that's fine. Hope they're better at watching that than they have been about our food, water, and air supply. I rather think though that no e-juice company will want to hurt their customer base.
    Not the honest ones, anyway. So the knock-off people will have to watch their butts! No pun.
    I've seen sufficient testing, sufficient use, and sufficient experience to vote "yes" for making them available OTC right now for every single ADULT in the world who wants one.
    I wonder, how much taxation would e-liquid generate per milligram of nicotine.....hmmmm. This could get expensive. Better stock up. I hear VG/nic only has a two-year shelf life. I think I'm about there now, unless I cut down a little more. Do-able.
  8. Crooooooow!

    Crooooooow! Full Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    With out a doubt.
  9. FluffaPuff

    FluffaPuff Full Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2009
    Shallotte, NC
    Oh, and let's not forget the thousands of prescription drugs APPROVED by the FDA that carry the literature informing the consumer of the "possible adverse effects" from use of the drug, which is usually a couple of pages long, including such things as liver disease, stroke, seizures, etc.!
  10. Crooooooow!

    Crooooooow! Full Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    Indeed! The side effects on those med commercials are ****ing scary! Warning, May cause intestinal bleeding, a limp wang or cancer of the face.

    I medicate myself without the use of pills. **** big pharma.:pervy:

  11. Mac

    Mac Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Personally I think it's the nrt's made by big pharma that are threatened moreso then tobacco. PM has the resources and distribution network in place to seize the market. The only reason these products can be marketed like they are is because they aren't in 7-11. All it would take is for PM to drp a couple mil and they could easily put all of us out of business. People will always smoke tobacco. What this threatens is those crappy overpriced nrt's that don't work.
  12. Þornbjörg

    Þornbjörg Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 27, 2009
    Tampa, FL
    The worst possible thing you can do is tout their ability to be used as a 'smoking cessation device'. ALL smoking cessation devices fall under very strict, and costly, FDA approval guidelines.

    You would be best advised to use the term 'safer alternative to smoking'.

    When an e-cig is compared to the various pills, the patch, the nicotrol inhaler, and the gum, it is right on par with them in regards to safety. This we know because of testing done by various groups. However. The application process for approval runs into the several million dollar range for cessation devices.

    Now, compared to cigarettes and cigars, they are on a scale of 1400x safer (that number isn't random, its the scale of nitrosamines found in Ruyan as compared to a Marlboro, go read the study). The approval process for a 'safer smoking alternative' is a lot faster, and requires a lot less money.

    Now, that being said; yes, most people agree it is much easier to quit e-cigs than real cigs. Though I don't know exactly why, I would go out on a limb and guess its because additives in cigarettes are meant to free-base the nicotine, thus making them far more addictive.
  13. geeker

    geeker Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 12, 2009
    Neither here nor there
    On our local news here they had two stories, one right after the other.
    The first was Celebrating the Montana Clean Indoor Air Act which means that no on can smoke in any indoor area, including bars. Yay, yahoo, screw property owner's rights!
    Immediately following: Microbrew beers are allowed to increase their alcohol contend from around 7 to now 14% Yay, yahoo, now you can get plastered even faster!
    Ironic, I thought.
  14. Don'tReadTheRunes

    Don'tReadTheRunes Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2009
    St. Louis MO
    I wonder. Who outside of this community cares about this? Second, does anybody know of an informal group or forum such as this one that is against e-cigarettes? I'm curious as to what arguments, rational and otherwise, are being spoken and written about. Perhaps some joe shmoes with a youtube video talking about how vapors killed their cat or something? I've seen enough government and agency reports, I know that stance.
  15. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
    Yup, the "smoking cessation" support boards tend to be overrun with those who believe that smoking cessation isn't good enough. You must be 100% nicotine-free or you are "no better than a junkie".

    From another string:

    I also ran into downright hostility on Become an EX
  16. Don'tReadTheRunes

    Don'tReadTheRunes Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2009
    St. Louis MO
    Whoa dude! I went to that board and read the 'relevant' thread. It seems that the people who apparently quit cold turkey are gonna be the ones leading the charge against banning e-cigs and the like. Funny how people do things like that and it's not just with quitting smoking too. People have a personal triumph over a situation or a substance and then get uppity because the next guy just didn't 'nut up' and do it like they did.
  17. RIMP

    RIMP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    There's no who*e like a reformed who*e:) They're just mad that they didn't have e-cigs when they went to quit:pervy:

  18. Don'tReadTheRunes

    Don'tReadTheRunes Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2009
    St. Louis MO
    Hell, where is the reformed caffeine addiction forum? I wonder if they are just as high on themselves?

    I could google, but the question is rhetorical. I guess I should ask them, but why...oh why is it such an evil thing to quit nicotine gradually? Nobody starts out with 2 packs or more a day.
  19. JamieJ

    JamieJ Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 5, 2009
    Washington State
    Perhaps someone can explain this to me but I was just in venice CA and they had shops that sold bongs and other pot smoking devices but they want to make the sale of the electronic cigarette illegal? Honestly how can that occur?
  20. Paworkingmom

    Paworkingmom Full Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 3, 2009
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Does anyone know a link to information on the Ban? I would like to learn more. I quit on September 22.:confused:
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