Will do.
WTA, as a topic, is exploding with popularity. As with new technology or ideas, with time it will only become better and better as more and more information is collected.
WTA is the future
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Will do.
WTA, as a topic, is exploding with popularity. As with new technology or ideas, with time it will only become better and better as more and more information is collected.
I would be interested to know if the simple combination of nicotine and anatabine*, in appropriate ratio, would be as effective as WTA (possibly even beter). The obvious omission being the more minor harmala alkaloids that have some reasons to be thought possibly important. On the other hand, one could avoid nornicotine.
To my mind this combination would still be a tobacco extract, little more complex that just nic. 50/50 if it would be as effective (or more accurately, as effective for as many people) as WTA. If I had to choose, I'd bet on this simle dual combination as indeed being effective.
Ultimately WTA might be a steping stone to something better. Yet a very important one nonetheless.
If I was Ethan, or otherwise in a position to do so, I'd do some small trials.
* A MAOI; and perhaps as much as 4% of smoking tobaccos; so not that minor!
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ps: oftentimes nicotine and smoking are used interchangeably (!). It is looking increasingly to be the case that benefits attributed to nicotine are more accurately associated with anatabine.
To my mind this combination would still be a tobacco extract, little more complex that just nic. 50/50 if it would be as effective (or more accurately, as effective for as many people) as WTA. If I had to choose, I'd bet on this simle dual combination as indeed being effective.
Ultimately WTA might be a steping stone to something better. Yet a very important one nonetheless.
If I was Ethan, or otherwise in a position to do so, I'd do some small trials.
* A MAOI; and perhaps as much as 4% of smoking tobaccos; so not that minor!
+++
ps: oftentimes nicotine and smoking are used interchangeably (!). It is looking increasingly to be the case that benefits attributed to nicotine are more accurately associated with anatabine.
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Kinabaloo, I've been supplementing vaping with CigRX, which contains anatabine and Yerba Mate extract. It's better than vaping alone, but still not like smoking a cigarette or even snus...
From my experience alone, totally unscientific, mind you, it's not anatabine alone. There are those other minor alkaloids that clearly act in synergy with nicotine to deliver the punch we all seem to be craving. The 64,000 dollar question is of course, which ones....
From my experience alone, totally unscientific, mind you, it's not anatabine alone. There are those other minor alkaloids that clearly act in synergy with nicotine to deliver the punch we all seem to be craving. The 64,000 dollar question is of course, which ones....
It's a 50/50 till we do some vaping tests.
What I do think is important is that the two be in the vape, not one as a pill - for that would greatly alter the impact in a whole range of ways. Just as a nic patch is no match for a nic-only vape; different delivery route, different delivery rate/pattern (no 'spike' that I feel is important), etc. Having to pass though the stomach / digestive system is a very different route and how much would remain effective after that.
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Not sure whether to post this - but be warned it is just initial impressions :
Was thinking again about the salt vs freebase angle following the recent interest in nic-level testing and that some vendors acidify their e-liquids. This led onto to trying a simple tobacco soak extract rather than what I normally do, which is a fair bit more. This extract would be predominantly alkaloid salts. I found that the WTA effect was there, but the nicotine barely noticeable - at least in terms of TH or taste. That led me to finding that anatabine has a significantly lower boiling point; and possibly easier to heat dissociate the salt.
Beyond the anatabine interest, I'm also curious how long an atomiser will last with such a basic extraction method and if that method could be improved in a simple way, etc.
I increasibly feel cartos/atomizers are more mistifyers than vaporisers. The salted alkaloids dont have the TH or taste, or the same psycho-physiological hit, most likely, but perhaps still deliver by numbers (still the poor relation) (?)
Was thinking again about the salt vs freebase angle following the recent interest in nic-level testing and that some vendors acidify their e-liquids. This led onto to trying a simple tobacco soak extract rather than what I normally do, which is a fair bit more. This extract would be predominantly alkaloid salts. I found that the WTA effect was there, but the nicotine barely noticeable - at least in terms of TH or taste. That led me to finding that anatabine has a significantly lower boiling point; and possibly easier to heat dissociate the salt.
Beyond the anatabine interest, I'm also curious how long an atomiser will last with such a basic extraction method and if that method could be improved in a simple way, etc.
I increasibly feel cartos/atomizers are more mistifyers than vaporisers. The salted alkaloids dont have the TH or taste, or the same psycho-physiological hit, most likely, but perhaps still deliver by numbers (still the poor relation) (?)
Would any of the juices that are advertised as "house extracted tobacco" have these additional WTA elements...beyond just nicotine? Specifically the MAOI's?
I have seen several juice vendors that advertise this but don't mention/promote WTA's. Is the process of extraction that say for instance BWB or Vaperite uses for tobacco flavors going to include traces of the other WTA's or just tobacco flavor and nicotine?
I have seen several juice vendors that advertise this but don't mention/promote WTA's. Is the process of extraction that say for instance BWB or Vaperite uses for tobacco flavors going to include traces of the other WTA's or just tobacco flavor and nicotine?
Excellent question. I just got some Vapelicious WTA stuff and it's a great vape for sure. I can't yet say whether there is a different effect or if it has changed my habit. I will wait a couple of weeks to see. I do find it very satisfying and I have not picked up my two fave AVE juices since I got this stuff, 2 days ago. That actually says a lot come to think of it.
But the effect of vaping the wta stuff is not too different from some other juices I vape that are not advertised as wta. Wondering if these alkaloids are actually in many juices and just not talked about much.
The answer would be no..... or at least very highly unlikely. The only way there could be a bit of WTA would be because of a very dirty extraction, and then there would be lots of other stuff in the liquid that we wouldn't want. I haven't a clue as to what they mean by house extracted tobacco. You would have to contact them and get an explanation as to what that means.
There is something called tobacco extracts but they have no nicotine or any other alkaloids. It's basically tobacco flavor.
Interesting thread! Thank you to all contributors. 
From the Want2vape website:
From the Vaperite website:
I have read through this thread several times (and peaked at other WTA information) and not seen where the WTA extraction process was mentioned? I think kinabaloo posted a summary process earlier in this thread and then may have deleted it? I am just wondering how the process differs? Do the processes mentioned above differ from the process that Vapelicious or Aromaejuice is using to extract the additional alkaloids? Is there additional steps or it seems maybe an intermediate step before the extract is distilled down to just nic or even further to just flavoring?
From the Want2vape website:
From the Vaperite website:
I have read through this thread several times (and peaked at other WTA information) and not seen where the WTA extraction process was mentioned? I think kinabaloo posted a summary process earlier in this thread and then may have deleted it? I am just wondering how the process differs? Do the processes mentioned above differ from the process that Vapelicious or Aromaejuice is using to extract the additional alkaloids? Is there additional steps or it seems maybe an intermediate step before the extract is distilled down to just nic or even further to just flavoring?
Think extraction is just focusing more on alkaloids then just nic. It seems Vapelicious and Aromae use a different process. Think Vapelicious separates the wta from the nic while Aromae does not. Am I wrong? Just passing info that I gleaned. Brave new world out there.I have read through this thread several times (and peaked at other WTA information) and not seen where the WTA extraction process was mentioned? I think kinabaloo posted a summary process earlier in this thread and then may have deleted it? I am just wondering how the process differs? Do the processes mentioned above differ from the process that Vapelicious or Aromaejuice is using to extract the additional alkaloids? Is there additional steps or it seems maybe an intermediate step before the extract is distilled down to just nic or even further to just flavoring?
I just ordered WTA- I figured it's worth a try as I'm still weaning from analogs completely. Many folks would wonder why I can't shake the analogs... I nearly did a couple of months ago, until we had a family tragedy and I had gone through great stress and went back to my old habits. I'm trying to get back on my feet again now that my life has calmed down. I've had to start my process basically all over again for now, but at least I'm trying. If WTA will replace what I'm lacking from nic juice and help with getting me off analogs, I feel it's worth a try. I ordered mine from Ethan and hopefully I'll get it soon to give it a try.
I think that for folks who have easily made the transition and only vape- great for you. But remember, there are those of us who have a much harder time kicking the habit or in dealing with missing analogs. Everyone is different and I feel it is unfair to criticise those of us who are struggling. What we need is encouragement and help, but having said that-- in some ways it's good to hear both sides of the story and get various opinions on the various alternatives out there to try. Then we can make our own decisions on what to try or what not to.
Just my two cents ;-)
I think that for folks who have easily made the transition and only vape- great for you. But remember, there are those of us who have a much harder time kicking the habit or in dealing with missing analogs. Everyone is different and I feel it is unfair to criticise those of us who are struggling. What we need is encouragement and help, but having said that-- in some ways it's good to hear both sides of the story and get various opinions on the various alternatives out there to try. Then we can make our own decisions on what to try or what not to.
Just my two cents ;-)
Here is an interesting read on Comparison of Methods for Extraction of Tobacco Alkaloids.
Note: Don't try this at home! Not trying to come up with DIY method for WTA!
Note: Don't try this at home! Not trying to come up with DIY method for WTA!
Here is an interesting read on Comparison of Methods for Extraction of Tobacco Alkaloids.
Note: Don't try this at home! Not trying to come up with DIY method for WTA!
Thanks for the link - interesting to read how microwaves and ultrasonics can be used in the extraction process.
Key points from the article :
Flue cured : alkaloid content ~0.85%
Burley : alkaloid content ~4.6%
Minor alkaloids constitute around 15% of the total alkaloids in Burley tobacco, though closer to 5-10% in flue-cured).
Hence, up to 10x more minor alkaloids by choosing the right tobacco to extract from.
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Interesting thread! Thank you to all contributors.
From the Want2vape website:
From the Vaperite website:
I have read through this thread several times (and peaked at other WTA information) and not seen where the WTA extraction process was mentioned? I think kinabaloo posted a summary process earlier in this thread and then may have deleted it? I am just wondering how the process differs? Do the processes mentioned above differ from the process that Vapelicious or Aromaejuice is using to extract the additional alkaloids? Is there additional steps or it seems maybe an intermediate step before the extract is distilled down to just nic or even further to just flavoring?
What I do is the classic base-acid ('flipping') approach that has been discussed in the past here by myself, DVap and tceight. Basify (e.g. with sodium carbonate, made by heating sodium bicarbonate, solution) the tobacco till it's wet and add a small amount of oil such as olive oil; the freebased nicotine will mostly partition into the oil (along with other organic compounds). Add acidified water (say, citric or ascorbic) to emulsify with the oil and the alkaloids will mostly re-salt / migrate to the water layer (non-polar organics will not). It's a reasonably good extraction (70-80%) of primarily alkaloids. (The partition depends partly on the relative volumes.) A final freebasing of the nicotine is beneficial. Care is needed to not have any oil in the final water solution (that is then diluted with ~4x VG). Obviously, one needs to try to keep liquid volumes small to maintain a reasonable end concentration.
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Started to compare a simple VG tobacco soak extract but haven't got far as yet. The big difference is that the simple extract is uncannily like smoke - somehow there is a smokiness to the vapor; I'm guessing that is heat decomposition/ashing of dry residues but not had time to look into it so far; perhaps it is actually an aroma reminiscent of smoke. Found it a bit distasteful at first but got used to it - not because it is 'smoky' (any 'soot' is probably minimal) but the twang - more of an earthy/leaf taste. The WTA effect is there but I expect dry residues to be a significant issue. The nic is low in taste / TH as mostly in salt form.
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kinabaloo - Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. This sounds similar to the process that Want2vape and Vaperite may use for their "house extracted tobacco"? Note the parts of the quotes below I highlighted in bold.
From the Want2vape website:
From the Vaperite website:
Since W2V mentions that their juices with the natural extracts contain additional nicotine (with nicotine itself being a substantial portion of the WTA whole) and Vaperite is using a simple PG tobacco soak, I am wondering if traces of the minor alkaloids could be present?
On the face of it, yes, and more than traces, but fairly minor overall. Perhaps 5-10% of a true WTA liquid; probably noticeable, but weak.
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What naturally extracted juices do you feel the weak WTA from? I am just curious.
I am planning on ordering some Vaperite Organic VR4. I will report back after I get it and have tried it.
The Burley thing is interesting as when I was smoking a pipe the only tobacco I liked was Burley. I found everything else dissatisfying.
It makes me curious as to what is happening with Swedish snus. Nearly all snus uses air cured tobacco. I wonder what that does to the alkaloid content. I would guess it wouldn't be as distractive as flu-cured. Snus certainly does have the minor alkaloids but would have no clue as to the ratio.
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