WV targets dissolvables

[TropicalBob]

From the West Virginia Gazette:


CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- In 2007, public health officials in West Virginia warned consumers about "snus," ground tobacco packaged in a teabag-like pouch. Now, some lawmakers want to draw more attention to the growing variety of smokeless tobacco products.

A bill approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday would bar the sale of "dissolvable tobacco products" in West Virginia.

Sen. Mike Oliverio, D-Monongalia, said it was highly unlikely the bill would pass this late in the legislative session. But he introduced it to start a discussion about the increasing use of smokeless tobacco products among teens, he said.

"I just thought we should start a public debate," he said.

Earlier this week, members of the teen anti-tobacco group Raze visited the Capitol for Tobacco Free Day, he said. Students from Oliverio's district told him about new dissolvable tobacco products, which take the form of dissolvable sticks, strips, and tablets.

The kids said some teens use the smokeless tobacco products while sitting in class, Oliverio said.

"It's scary stuff out there," he said.

One of the newest products are Camel Orbs, dissolvable tobacco tablets packaged like mints. They hit the shelves in January.

So far, the product is only available in three U.S. cities, said R.J Reynolds Tobacco Co. spokesman David Howard: Columbus, Ohio; Portland, Ore. and Indianapolis.

They are made of finely milled tobacco and food-grade binders, he said.

"These types of products, we believe, meet the needs of adult smokers," Howard said.

Howard said such products let smokers use tobacco in places where smoking is prohibited - like restaurants and offices - while "meeting societal expectations."

"There's no spitting required," he said. "They don't have secondhand smoke. And they fully dissolve, so there's no litter."

When asked about health risks, Howard said he wasn't aware of any studies specific to dissolvable tobacco.

"We are not making any health claims," he said. "No tobacco product has been shown to be without risk."

Dissolvable tobacco products are age-restricted, sold behind counters and contain warning labels, he said.

"It's clear that these are tobacco products," he said. "And they are marketed as such, and sold as such."

 

[Kitabz]

From the West Virginia Gazette:<snip>

Most interesting. Still you're lucky over the pond in being able to even get snus, they're not legal in the EU at all.

I find the hysteria over [what was smoking but is now] nicotine somewhat bemusing. Why do people care what others do to their own bodies? Is it the case that all the noise over cigarettes these past few decades really had nothing to do with passive smoke, the smell, etc., but really to do with controlling others?

Why is coffee exempt from this tirade and, to a lesser extent - here in the UK at least - alcohol? Until now at least...

I've been surprised at the speed with which smoking/nicotine have gone from accepted to tolerated to segregated to demonised to largely outlawed to beyond-the-pale. I fear for the future (of everything not just smoking/vaping/coffee/drinking/whatever).

 

[Lorddrek]

I really want to try out those Camel Orbs too. I wonder if I will ever get the chance...

 

[TropicalBob]

I use my e-cig and Stonewall dissolvables about equally. The dissolvables are essential for me first thing in the morning and after meals. Haven't tried the Camel ones yet, but RJR appears to have simply copied Star Scientific's pioneering method of curing and pressing tobacco into pellets.

I have my tobacco shop owner order Stonewalls in cartons of 5 packs of 20 each. I use a carton a week.

These harm reduction alternatives to cigarettes are being opposed with the familiar rallying cry of "save the children." It seems some nicotine-addicted teens are using snus and dissolvables all day while in school. Since these aren't attention-getting like smoking a cigarette, use can be kept secret from authorities, who want the kids to either stop or die.

 

[Kitabz]

I use my e-cig and Stonewall dissolvables about equally.

Can I ask why you use one over the other at certain times of day?

Why not use one or the other exclusively, I'm guessing that each must have specific attributes that are preferable at different times/places?

 

[skullsoup432]

Two of my sons varsity baseball teammates got caught with Camel snus in their mouths during class. Someone narced on them. 2 days school, 6 bb games suspension. Next time, no senior trip, no more baseball. I knew that the school was cracking down, but damn. When I was in school, you got caught with smokes, they took them away and called your parents.
My son was in a fist fight in school, each (again both jocks) got 1 day suspension. I guess tobacco is worst than violence in the authorities mind.

 

[Mohave]

When I was in school, you got caught with smokes, they took them away and called your parents.

When I was in high school there were ashtrays at the entrances and a designated smoking area.

 

[smokingclam]

When I was in high school there were ashtrays at the entrances and a designated smoking area.

Wow I got caught in high school and I got a 3 day suspension. That was 30 years ago. I should have went to your school.

 

[TropicalBob]

Can I ask why you use one over the other at certain times of day?

Happy to answer this. In the morning, I wake up with a dry mouth .. typical. I pop in a Stonewall, which tastes delicious to me, and it initiates saliva production. If I e-smoke, it further dries my mouth and throat at that early hour. But I reach for the e-cig shortly afterward, as the Stonewall dissolves and I drink that first cup of coffee.

I do NOT whip out the e-cig in public places like a restaurant, where it could easily be confused with banned cigarette smoking. I do not want to upset other customers or management. It is much, much easier to finish a meal and pop in a Stonewall, until I'm outside and can use the e-cig without consequences.

The e-cig has never supplied me with enough nicotine, not even steadily puffing on 36mg liquid. Strangely, the pipe smoking does. It can almost knock me out all by itself. Snus can make me ill if I use a high-nic version. I have no real idea why e-smoking is inadequate for me yet others report going to a hospital with overdose symptoms. I cannot and will not attempt to explain it. We are all .. different.

I use snus all day, beginning after coffee. It's either Stonewall or snus, and almost always an e-cig at the same time. The only time I use only one is when I'm pipe smoking. Nothing else is needed. But of course that cannot be done publicly, which keeps me ordering snus and Stonewall!

 

[Kitabz]

Happy to answer this.<snip>

Wow, thanks for a very detailed response.

I read somewhere recently that you were only a 30-a-day smoker, that's not so much (and it surprised me when I read it - I'd always assumed from your other posts that you were a former chain-smoker, i.e, 60+ per day).

The e-cig has never supplied me with enough nicotine, not even steadily puffing on 36mg liquid. Strangely, the pipe smoking does.

Do you inhale the pipe smoke then?
FWIW, I think that the nicotine spike from "wet" vapour is slower (but possibly longer lasting) than dry smoke which is why getting a nicotine hit - in the burning tobacco sense at least - doesn't seem to be possible no matter how high the mg.

 

[julliefishes]

Happy to answer this. In the morning, I wake up with a dry mouth .. typical. I pop in a Stonewall, which tastes delicious to me, and it initiates saliva production. If I e-smoke, it further dries my mouth and throat at that early hour. But I reach for the e-cig shortly afterward, as the Stonewall dissolves and I drink that first cup of coffee.

I do NOT whip out the e-cig in public places like a restaurant, where it could easily be confused with banned cigarette smoking. I do not want to upset other customers or management. It is much, much easier to finish a meal and pop in a Stonewall, until I'm outside and can use the e-cig without consequences.

The e-cig has never supplied me with enough nicotine, not even steadily puffing on 36mg liquid. Strangely, the pipe smoking does. It can almost knock me out all by itself. Snus can make me ill if I use a high-nic version. I have no real idea why e-smoking is inadequate for me yet others report going to a hospital with overdose symptoms. I cannot and will not attempt to explain it. We are all .. different.

I use snus all day, beginning after coffee. It's either Stonewall or snus, and almost always an e-cig at the same time. The only time I use only one is when I'm pipe smoking. Nothing else is needed. But of course that cannot be done publicly, which keeps me ordering snus and Stonewall!

Bob, thank you for sharing your experiences with snus and Stonewall. I may have missed it, but do you use the Norwegian or Swedish snus? How does one use snus? Does it taste like a cigarette? Also, I have not heard of Stonewall. Is this easily available? Does it taste like a cigarette as well?

 

[TropicalBob]

I don't inhale the pipe. The PH is such that mouth absorption of pipe tobacco smoke is very good. The nic hit can be very high, depending on the tobacco.

You might be right about the impact of liquid-nicotine inhalation. Many of us have questioned what is missing in vapor. I honestly can't tell one nic level of liquid from another. I depend on my other vices for maintaining a solid nicotine blood level.

Pack-and-a-half a day of cigs. Not high, no. But not casual either. Work interfered with smoking whenever I might want to!

 

[TropicalBob]

Bob, thank you for sharing your experiences with snus and Stonewall. I may have missed it, but do you use the Norwegian or Swedish snus? How does one use snus? Does it taste like a cigarette? Also, I have not heard of Stonewall. Is this easily available? Does ilt taste like a cigarette as well?

Hey Julie. Just saw your post after answering the previous one. I post frequently in the Alternatives section of this forum for snus and dissolvables. I do order snus from The Northerner in Sweden and lately have been buying Camel snus at a local tobacco store. The portions are like little tea bags of tobacco. You place them -- invisibly -- between the cheek and gum. The mouth absorbs nicotine and there is no spitting involved. This is not "chew".

The Camel snus have just been released nationwide. Camel also has a line of three dissolvables, but they are presently sold in only three cities.

Note that snus has a safe history of use in Sweden for at least a century. Dissolvables have the lowest TSNA levels of any tobacco product. No concerns with your health with these products. They are frequently cited as the major harm reduction alternatives for cigarette smokers.

Pssst. No one will ever know you're using any of these products.

Star Scientific has made Stonewall for at least four years. That's a Virginia company that cures Virginia burley tobacco, compressing it into flavored little pieces the size of a breath mint that dissolve in the mouth in about 45 minutes. They are used just like snus. I had my tobacco store owner be sure he always has them in stock. Now, many others have discovered them in his store -- he's sometimes sold out for a few days.

Any store could request them from a wholesaler.

They have "natural" flavor, but I don't like it personally. You might. Also have mint and java. Sold as Ariva for light cig smokers and Stonewall (with higher nicotine) for heavy cig smokers. Snus comes in a huge variety of flavors. They taste more of salt than smoke, but Camel is a sweet exception.

 

[julliefishes]

Hi Bob, Thank you for answering all of my questions. Greatly appreciate your sharing of knowledge and experiences, since I have either not heard of these products or didn't view them as an alternative to smoking. I've googled them to find out more info and about where I can locate them closer to where I live. I wish I had known about all these alternatives previously, as I am sure they would have helped me be more successful in quitting. Once again, thank you Bob.
P.S. - I especially like the, "no one will know you are using these products", being an educator who works with the little ones.

 

[Mohave]

I should have went to your school.

I think they shut down the smoking area and pulled out the ashtrays just a few years after me. In the early 1970s.

But then, in college it was considered rude to smoke in class during the lecture unless the professor also did so. He usually did.

 

[julliefishes]

Hi Mohave, I remember that time ever so fondly. My first year of teaching and the staffroom was cloud of blue smoke, the way I liked it. What a way to escape and relieve stress. Unfortunately, I had only one year of the staffroom fumes and blooms and then then all hell broke lose, with all the smoking bans. I recall one teacher had to be carried out to the car and taken to the hospital, because of a panic attack she suffered from not being able to smoke in the school. Wow, do I ever miss those good ole days. Cocktails and smokes, oh my!!!!

 

[TropicalBob]

True story: I was a hooked addict by the time I entered college. Smoking was forbidden in all classrooms except journalism and art. Smoking was traditional for journalists on deadline. Art rooms had tall ceilings with open windows.

In my sophomore year, I changed my major to journalism and minor to art. Graduated a happy camper and spent 45 years as a reporter/editor for some major newspapers.

 

[MonkeyMonk]

TB, when you say pipe, do you mean a real pipe or an e-pipe? I still haven't been able to locate Stonewall in Chicago, wish I could.

 

[Parallx]

"I've been surprised at the speed with which smoking/nicotine have gone from accepted to tolerated to segregated to demonised to largely outlawed to beyond-the-pale."

Much like another plant with many uses, used for most of recorded history, and then banned for political purpose. Ignorance wins in the short term, but times, they are a changin'.

 

[jamie]

Earlier this week, members of the teen anti-tobacco group Raze visited the Capitol for Tobacco Free Day, he said. Students from Oliverio's district told him about new dissolvable tobacco products, which take the form of dissolvable sticks, strips, and tablets.

So there is no actual issue, no surge of problem reports. It's another organized anti-activity masquerading as grassroots "concern".

Raze, the "teen" group which is lobbying the legislature, is a "counter marketing brand" of the West Virginia State Department of Health and Human Services Division of Tobacco Prevention, developed in conjunction with a professional corporate marketing company.

So this is one branch of WV government recruiting kids to lobby another branch of WV government. And their "brand" Raze coordinates with.... wait for it.... Serena Chen's knife-fighting group, the American Lung Association.