xc-116 nextel ceramic wick/sleeve

[metamorpheus]

Thanks your remarks Meta. I generally agree with your conclusions. I've been doing a six month informal scientific inquiry of consumer rebuilding methods and wicking products. So far over 350 builds. Nextel resides as the de facto standard to beat at this point with these tests displacing cotton early on. It has a deficiency in that it falls notably behind in its cross-section saturation because of the very properties that makes it flow as exceedingly well as it does. Consequently it excels no doubt in some drippers but others where there is no well such as the Immo (I test 4) it does not fare as well requiring more dripping. It's flow rate is unequaled. So I'm very optimistic about use in a Genny.

I am flavor sensitive. A blessing and curse. So I can distinguish between silica, Ekowool and Nextel in that all three have a distinct flavor signature. Those reporting an inferiority of flavor have not had sufficient long term experience with the [Nextel] wick I believe. Many conditions can affect the flavor result of all synthetic media including the method of preparation. When properly prepared Nextel is the most flavor neutral of all the media from all sources I have tested. It does have a break-in time (brief, tip. <half mil) and certainly after torching/pulsing as any synthetic does. However, no other wick media has the potential for single-coil long term usage of Nextel.

Meta I found that stubborn surface ash, usually bars at either side of the coil (if a micro) as surface debris. This can be usually eliminated by a narrow and brief small torch burn right on a clearo without hazarding any nearby silicone. It doesn't substantially heat the head assembly. Then the wick coil can be restored to practically match any flavor or juice channel wicks in their pristine white color. It's not perfect as you have pigment particles interspersed in the weave due to wicking and these can't be totally removed. Especially if they are allowed to accumulate. As time goes by this is what disrupts flow and mutes the flavor requiring another 3/8" or so of more wick in most clearo's. I recommend a procedure in my blog to ...... this which absolutely works. And all techniques I've described elsewhere can have a typical tank running out two weeks or longer. After repeated washes and burns though this interval is shortened.

Pic's of a typical contact (micro) coil from these tests in a long burn with wick heated, illuminated; and, Nextel install with attendant juice channel wicks to help mitigate flange bypass of juice…

This product is about one of the best kept open secrets there is meta. And really impressive combined with the use of an actually functional microcoil for its efficiently uniform operation. When that happens Nextel is IDEAL…for durability and you will experience virtually no ash in liquid or discoloration. However, I find no substitute for cotton overall for its capacity to convey the broadest possible flavor. Nextel sometimes may equal it or come close but its not a substitute. Unfortunately for me as a user I can always taste cotton as a competing flavor. It never hides in the background and so is imposing. I'm sure there are many like myself which makes Nextel a very interesting alternative worth trying.

Thanks again for taking the time to ad your observations. All confirmation is helpful and exceptions worth exploring.

Good luck all. Enjoy.

The most neutral flavor I have experienced is actually the bon 60 grit aluminum oxide. That stuff was mind blowing once I got the wire Ga/resistance-wick diameter-coil height ratio right. There's a balance between VP, heat sink of the ceramic mass, saturation of the wick, and air flow that must be done right, but that white wick is at the top of my list. I'll post pictures after this calculus II exam nightmare is over on wed 8-o . Worst class I've taken(so so professor and haven't taken calc I in 2 years) and I loved organic chemistry.

 

[MacTechVpr]

This is what I've found too. When testing wicks, my highest priority is flavor since tasting multiple types of juices is the biggest part of my vape hobby. For me, Nextel, German silica, and sterile rolled cotton all become flavor neutral while using them, I adjust to whatever flavor they give quick enough for it to disappear. For some reason, regular twisted silica I always taste, so I dropped that as an option early. The rest are all top-notch wicking materials for me.

Out of the rope wicks, the German silica offers the widest spectrum of flavor notes and portrays them well. Cotton I would rate a little better, but not with every juice. Eko and Nextal do better than those with certain juices, but that's rarer for me. Keep in mind this is all personal observation and preference, others will find different wick preferences for different juices than I do.

I do have all four of those types on different drippers, but I use cotton the most often. I prefer it because it's so easy to remove, dry burn, and replace with a fresh wick, it offers the broadest flavor spectrum (especially with extracted tobaccos), and it's a very saturated flavor since cotton holds much more liquid. The one area the ropes seem to do better is creamy notes, though the difference is pretty small. For some reason Nextel is even worse with creamy notes, getting trumped by German silica and Ekowool.

I agree with you on each one of your observations. I am particularly taste sensitive and lend my assistance to flavor testing for some vendors. It takes time to get there and capital! Time and money. Most of us give up. I took a different approach to a solution. Find the simplest most accessible track to a baseline. That's where Nextel shines, as the latter as I just posted at This is what I've found too. When testing wicks, my highest priority is flavor since tasting multiple types of juices is the biggest part of my vape hobby. For me, Nextel, German silica, and sterile rolled cotton all become flavor neutral while using them, I adjust to whatever flavor they give quick enough for it to disappear. For some reason, regular twisted silica I always taste, so I dropped that as an option early. The rest are all top-notch wicking materials for me.

Out of the rope wicks, the German silica offers the widest spectrum of flavor notes and portrays them well. Cotton I would rate a little better, but not with every juice. Eko and Nextal do better than those with certain juices, but that's rarer for me. Keep in mind this is all personal observation and preference, others will find different wick preferences for different juices than I do.

I do have all four of those types on different drippers, but I use cotton the most often. I prefer it because it's so easy to remove, dry burn, and replace with a fresh wick, it offers the broadest flavor spectrum (especially with extracted tobaccos), and it's a very saturated flavor since cotton holds much more liquid. The one area the ropes seem to do better is creamy notes, though the difference is pretty small. For some reason Nextel is even worse with creamy notes, getting trumped by German silica and Ekowool.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on each one of your observations, except the dry burn (don't think you meant that). I am particularly taste sensitive and lend my assistance to flavor testing for some vendors. It takes time to get there and capital! Time and money. Most of us give up. I took a different approach to a solution. Find the simplest most accessible track to a baseline. That's where Nextel shines, in the latter, as I just posted at [url]"http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion-68.html#post12195935"]Post #672 : Protank MicroCoil Discussion!! : Best wicking option? The one that works!.

Cotton is an evolution. It doesn't work out of the box. It's where we want to be for an abundance of reasons. But it's merciless and that doesn't necessarily get us past the hump, quitting. Where is step-1-2-3 here? Get cotton wrong which is easy to do and you fail. I didn't give up on it. I set it aside and gave myself the time and resources to get it right until I did. Good thing! I'm trying to map that Jerms. A successful track. I think Nextel's likely a part of it for most coming up.

Thank you very much for your well considered remarks. Good luck.

 

[Jerms]

I agree with you on each one of your observations, except the dry burn (don't think you meant that). I am particularly taste sensitive and lend my assistance to flavor testing for some vendors. It takes time to get there and capital! Time and money. Most of us give up. I took a different approach to a solution. Find the simplest most accessible track to a baseline. That's where Nextel shines, in the latter, as I just posted at "http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...!! : Best wicking option? The one that works!.

Cotton is an evolution. It doesn't work out of the box. It's where we want to be for an abundance of reasons. But it's merciless and that doesn't necessarily get us past the hump, quitting. Where is step-1-2-3 here? Get cotton wrong which is easy to do and you fail. I didn't give up on it. I set it aside and gave myself the time and resources to get it right until I did. Good thing! I'm trying to map that Jerms. A successful track. I think Nextel's likely a part of it for most coming up.

Thank you very much for your well considered remarks. Good luck.

By dry burn I meant just the bare coil after removing the cotton and before inserting the new piece. That's a big draw to me, the ease of quickly replacing the wick means the only thing that has gunk that needs to be burned off is the coil itself which is as simple as pressing the button on the mod, no torching or lighting needed. Nextel's nice in that you can dry burn with the wick in place, but to truly clean the wick you need to torch it too. Replacing a cotton wick for me is quicker and easier than cleaning Nextel.

The drawback to cotton like you said can be the learning curve. For me there really wasn't much of one, I just saw how others did it and was able to repeat the results right away. I can see that not always being the case. For cotton there is yarn which is easy to explain and get repeated results as any rope wicking, but it does need to be boiled. Sterile rolled cotton works out of the box, but a person needs to learn how to roll a working coil out of the material. For some that can be an issue, others take to it right away. Cotton yarn I haven't tried because sterile cotton works perfect for my needs, and I'd rather not have to deal with boiling.

Like I said, I think all of these wicking choices are great options and depending on the person and application, one will work better than the others. Prefered flavor will also depend on the person, they all offer great flavor but each tends to display different notes differently. I tend to recommend cotton the most to new rebuilders even though it has a learning curve to some, because it's dirt cheap ($5 for basically a lifetime supply) and the flavor provided has the broadest appeal. If they want to dry burn with the wick in place I suggest German silica and Eko. If they don't want to use silica or find they don't like the flavor I suggest Nextel last, because it's by far the most expensive.

 

[MacTechVpr]

By dry burn I meant just the bare coil after removing the cotton and before inserting the new piece. That's a big draw to me, the ease of quickly replacing the wick means the only thing that has gunk that needs to be burned off is the coil itself which is as simple as pressing the button on the mod, no torching or lighting needed. Nextel's nice in that you can dry burn with the wick in place, but to truly clean the wick you need to torch it too. Replacing a cotton wick for me is quicker and easier than cleaning Nextel.

The drawback to cotton like you said can be the learning curve. For me there really wasn't much of one, I just saw how others did it and was able to repeat the results right away. I can see that not always being the case. For cotton there is yarn which is easy to explain and get repeated results as any rope wicking, but it does need to be boiled. Sterile rolled cotton works out of the box, but a person needs to learn how to roll a working coil out of the material. For some that can be an issue, others take to it right away. Cotton yarn I haven't tried because sterile cotton works perfect for my needs, and I'd rather not have to deal with boiling.

Like I said, I think all of these wicking choices are great options and depending on the person and application, one will work better than the others. Prefered flavor will also depend on the person, they all offer great flavor but each tends to display different notes differently. I tend to recommend cotton the most to new rebuilders even though it has a learning curve to some, because it's dirt cheap ($5 for basically a lifetime supply) and the flavor provided has the broadest appeal. If they want to dry burn with the wick in place I suggest German silica and Eko. If they don't want to use silica or find they don't like the flavor I suggest Nextel last, because it's by far the most expensive.

You know we're going to give 'em an education here. Almost a bit too much, too fast, lol, for someone to take in.

But yeppers have to agree with you on cotton, it's my favorite. And you describe Nextel's ease of use accurately. I also know that for many getting that balance right on cotton is difficult. I work with them all them time. A few on this forum. Many elsewhere. And it's difficult if you use a lot of various tanks like Kanger's to anticipate the need and have that many quick swap coils, in the right wind and res, to accommodate. And that's where Nextel comes in for it's practicality as well as durability. And unfortunately yarn is not always easy to thread in the smaller diameters that some users prefer to hit their res targets particularly on clearo's. There again Nextel is more universal. I'm not scalping for Nextel as a brand. As a type of wick, a media, I definitely must. Because it serves a need.

Me personally I use cotton in virtually all the devices I use for my personal use. But I appreciate the convenience and performance of a PT Mini I can grab at the last minute, throw whatever juice suits my fancy in it and on a Magneto to take that trip to the shopping mall knowing it's just going to work. In that sense, it's the perfect back-pocket wick. Something to be said for that.

If price is the only dividing criteria it is indeed a very personal decision. And that's exactly why I began looking at this particular material seriously. For most people time is money. And ease of use represents a dollar savings in that sense.

We're not going to agree on that jerms but we don't have to because we're both concerned about the same issues. I leave it to folks to decide what suits them best. And I try to make sure they understand what they're in for. I sure as...hope they're old enough to know better. LOL

You take care and good luck. Thanks for the great feedbackl.

 

[MikeE3]

In a genny I haven't tried it but I doubt it would be very good compared with mesh or AO.

In a Kayfun style atty I would take hemp fiber or rolled cotton AO hybrid>hemp fiber>cotton>116>132>ekowool>silica

in a taifun style/fogger atty I would take 116>cotton

in a PTII style I would take 132 with a coil wrapped around a 14Ga syringe needle(if I remember correctly) and the 132 twisted through, a flavor wick of 132, and a little hemp fiber diaper on the outside after assembled if leaking becomes a problem.

So basically the only applications I can see cotton being better is in a kayfun style atty or in a genny if done right.

The most neutral flavor I have experienced is actually the bon 60 grit aluminum oxide. That stuff was mind blowing once I got the wire Ga/resistance-wick diameter-coil height ratio right. There's a balance between VP, heat sink of the ceramic mass, saturation of the wick, and air flow that must be done right, but that white wick is at the top of my list. I'll post pictures after this calculus II exam nightmare is over on wed 8-o . Worst class I've taken(so so professor and haven't taken calc I in 2 years) and I loved organic chemistry.

Just read through this thread - nice discussion!

Kinda off topic - but FWIW. I've switched a couple genny's from DIY AO ceramic wicks (been my fav for many months) to Nextel. Both are working very comparable to the AO w/ respect to vapor production and clean flavor. And given I don't have to 'grind' my own wicks and that the Nextel is much more 'flexible' (he he) to work with - I give the edge to Nextel. It does, IMO, need to fit loosely in the wick hole. It's working better in a DID (3mm) than a Cobra (2mm). It fit through the Cobra, but since it's a tad snug, I don't think it wicks as good.

 

[Yellow Hawk]

I've gone with RBAsupplies.com, 8$/ft. but, WHAT is YOUR life worth? I'm already missing my legs because I was a silly ... stupid kid who believed the Hooplah about the RED DEVIL, coming to GET our families, so OFF to the USMC, and to Vietnam. But, they bite back, and had these really GREAT 152mm Russian Long range artillery pieces, One, did NOT miss!
The un-treated, or STUPID treated XC-116 will just take a little longer to get you. I DO wish he would start buying and cooking some XC-18 though! I emailed him to ask him if he was planning on that, no answer. But, from what I heard, he's having a hard enough time, just keeping the XC116 in stock, he's NOT just doing the one 12 hr. burn, he's doing a DOUBLE 12 hr. burn, burn, cooldown, and burn it again, for another 12. He's WAY ahead of the recommended Requirements to make it "safe". But, I'm not SURE of this, I saw it printed ABOUT his material, not BY him. Somebody email Shopan, (ECF handle), he owns RBA suppllies. He posted earlier.

Yellow Hawk

 

[Shopan]

I've gone with RBAsupplies.com, 8$/ft. but, WHAT is YOUR life worth? I'm already missing my legs because I was a silly ... stupid kid who believed the Hooplah about the RED DEVIL, coming to GET our families, so OFF to the USMC, and to Vietnam. But, they bite back, and had these really GREAT 152mm Russian Long range artillery pieces, One, did NOT miss!
The un-treated, or STUPID treated XC-116 will just take a little longer to get you. I DO wish he would start buying and cooking some XC-18 though! I emailed him to ask him if he was planning on that, no answer. But, from what I heard, he's having a hard enough time, just keeping the XC116 in stock, he's NOT just doing the one 12 hr. burn, he's doing a DOUBLE 12 hr. burn, burn, cooldown, and burn it again, for another 12. He's WAY ahead of the recommended Requirements to make it "safe". But, I'm not SURE of this, I saw it printed ABOUT his material, not BY him. Somebody email Shopan, (ECF handle), he owns RBA suppllies. He posted earlier.

Yellow Hawk

Well hello There..I Do Not Own RBA Supplies LLC . I am a Customer and do support LucidiousRage Who Is the Owner and has a Show on Vapers.tv on Sunday Nights All The Rage LIVE! where I am Sure you can pop in and ask in Chat all that you care to;Will Not be the first Time
I hope You Enjoy ReadyXwick, I know I do Just waiting for him to get wire on the Site to Order More

 

[mattrhdr]

When I received my xc-116 do I have to boil it before wrapping the coil on it?

 

[Yellow Hawk]

NO, no boiling necessary, it's ready to vape. You CAN boil it if you want, it just won't do anything to it. A waste of time.

 

[Sed Contra]

Taifun GT w/ cotton & micro coil AND XC-116 "flavor wick" for the win!

 

[Yellow Hawk]

I'm using One coil with cotton, and one with XC116 in my Kracken, and I thought I was wierd...... But, at .8 ohms, it works like a charm.... Hits so hard, i have to back down on my normal Nic. level, or get a masssive nic. high. From 18mg/ml, to about 10mg/ml. I make all my own juices, and MY flavors, so I set Nic. to what I want, not what THEY decide, as in the makers of bulk juices. My two drippers, a Omega, and a IGO-L, both are ReadyXWick though. Very fast wicking, VERY. Pricey, but, what's your health, and a GREAT vape worth?

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm using One coil with cotton, and one with XC116 in my Kracken, and I thought I was wierd...... But, at .8 ohms, it works like a charm.... Hits so hard, i have to back down on my normal Nic. level, or get a masssive nic. high. From 18mg/ml, to about 10mg/ml. I make all my own juices, and MY flavors, so I set Nic. to what I want, not what THEY decide, as in the makers of bulk juices. My two drippers, a Omega, and a IGO-L, both are ReadyXWick though. Very fast wicking, VERY. Pricey, but, what's your health, and a GREAT vape worth?

You have to back down because it wicks so damned fast, exceedingly. So much I can't use it in my fav flavor beast, the Immo. Can't keep it wet and vertical. It's outstanding for any dripper with a good soggy platform reserve. Particularly something like the Omega. It doesn't permeate as well as Eko. It's saturation is linear, up the pipe, and how!

Would you agree as I've written for a study on Nextel for clearo's that it is nearly as flavor neutral as cotton? Curious. I think so, nearly so. For some flavors more so. I'm taste sensitive and I can't dismiss cotton, can't mask it. Nextel comes as close to melding in as anything I've tried.



Good luck.

 

[Yellow Hawk]

I use Surgical cotton, becuase I have access to it, then I boil the heck out of it twice, and squish water out then dry it. I have two pounds drying right now, and it's absolutely flavorless. Or, so I think. I have NEVER tasted, or smelled one darn thing from it, not even if you run it nearly dry. The XC116, IS just about as tasteless, but, I DO taste something, but, that could be imagination. Strange how that works. IF you expect to taste something, YOU WILL. Expectations, vs. outcome. Dr. here, lots of research. And, I KNOW how large a roll expectations play in experiments of all types.

 

[MacTechVpr]

We're all wired diff YH. Most of our taste is in our heads, LOL.

Unfortunately cotton, all cotton, tastes like linen out of the dryer to me. Can't escape the flavor/smell/taste of it, washed or no. I don't like what the wash does to the natural fiber density. But…and it's a big but…it produces the most robust neutral and comprehensive results of any wicking media. And that's what I've been doing for almost six months, a flavor test of sorts, researching wicking media and consumer build techniques in my own privately funded study. For my generic tests, I settle on solutions that the typical user/consumer might have access to. So my common cotton wick tests used CVS organic.

Thank goodness I don't compile detailed flavor notes for the juices that I use for test. That would be maddening. No, that is not central to my study. Clearomizer performance and ergonomics is.

I appreciate the feedback, your experience seems to parallel mine. I've only run across two others and the 2nd only recently after 6 months with my degree of taste sensitivity. All media to me has a flavor and, no exception here, expectations can definitely affect that. I sometimes have to color tag Protanks with a dot# on the batt where I can't get to it, set the few within a group of Sig's and forget which is which for a while, or a day later. I run a lot of tanks. See if I make the distinction by batt change. Yep, I've had to do the blind comp with some frequency. Assumptions can color variations of flavor overall…and you find they all suddenly taste the same! Yes, the mind can play tricks. Best to set it aside at times and focus elsewhere.

Sjögrens, have plenty of surgical cotton unfortunately. A lifetime supply. Great wick. The uniformity helps get the density right in a standardized wind, repeatably.

Thanks very much knockin' on my door Doc. Natural born skeptic here lookin' for all the answers I can to help the newb's.



Good luck.

 

[Phone Guy]

I bought some XC116 untreated (DUH!) and never even used it. 10 ft of it... I decided to LIST IT IN THE CLASSIFIEDS. It's my understanding it's unsafe to use the stuff before heat treating, which is why I never used it. I REALLY WANTED TO TRY IT.

 

[Coelli]

I bought some XC116 untreated (DUH!) and never even used it. 10 ft of it... I decided to LIST IT IN THE CLASSIFIEDS. It's my understanding it's unsafe to use the stuff before heat treating, which is why I never used it. I REALLY WANTED TO TRY IT.

Ask around, maybe someone near you has a kiln - I bet even those little ceramic shops that cater to kids' painting parties might have one. Failing that, just get some from rbasupplies.com!

 

[Phone Guy]

Ask around, maybe someone near you has a kiln - I bet even those little ceramic shops that cater to kids' painting parties might have one. Failing that, just get some from rbasupplies.com!

When I bought this, I didn't realize it had to be heat treated to be used. I kind of jumped in before I did the proper research. After I bought it and realized it had to be treated, I asked 1 place, and gave up. I just wanted to USE it, ya know... Not fuss with it.

All that being said, I may make some call's again and try to get it treated again, if it doesn't sell before that. MANY THANKS!

 

[metamorpheus]

Taifun GT w/ cotton & micro coil AND XC-116 "flavor wick" for the win!

not exactly the same, but I had good luck with the fogger using straight 116 and a nice 1.3 ohm hand wrap. Best part about the fogger I had was the ability to open the chimney by twisting the glass so I could get maximum flavor density without flooding it. I had that wick for nearly the entire time I had the fogger. I sold it after I got my Russian, started school, and needed money. I wish I didn't though. Extremely low maintenance and great flavor/TH.
I recently did a .3ohm 22 Ga mini coil in my IGO-W and tried hemp fiber at a few densities first before twisting some 116 in. The 116 has the vapor edge and tasted great right away so I explored no further. I bought 2 feet of the stuff 4 months ago and I still have some. I just recycle it all. The ceramic I don't have anymore was either a frayed wire rope topper or stuff I used to build other peoples setup. When I tear a ceramic build down to try something new I just throw the wick/coil in a bag. Either all my ceramic is thoroughly broken in which is definitely possible or it doesn't really have a break in, either way I love the stuff. When people tear down my ceramic build after a month and tell me they tossed the wick I cringe. Nooo atty gold gone to lie in filth and rubbish lol. That's like tossing jewelry because it becomes tarnished....almost.

 

[folkphys]

xc-116 + Fogger = synchronous tooting overdrive.

When I got the xc-116 my Fogger came out of the drawer that it had been living in since I got the R91. Perfect fit in the wick slots, and threaded into some 0.5mm ribbon at 0.8 Ohms it is blissful.

It seems to me that the ceramic, being a dense insulating material, can really function well in a lower-than-kayfun resistance coil. Just like the FC-2000 did in my old RSST with a 3-wrap of 0.8mm ribbon around it. Otherwise, with the usual KF ohms range of 1.1-1.4, the xc-116 seems a bit slow to get going at times.

Here's what I think is going on:

1. The Fogger with its wide open and more direct air flow pathway makes it, in general, better than the KF's in handling lower resistance coils, which means: quicker coil heating => quicker vaporization => more vapor per unit of time.

2. The KF's rely on an indirect juice pathway from tank-to-wick-to-coil and a decently balanced pressure differential which means they need a little more time than the Fogger for wick resupply -- or else a well stocked in-chamber juice reserve. This also means that variances in wick size or density don't affect things as much as coil resistance because the KF's provide a relatively stable juice flow. I suspect that the raised deck and invertedly akimbo juice channels of the KF's function like a syringe, giving you a nice little metered dose of juice into your coil chamber every time you take a tug. Whereas in the Fogger, that flow can be horribly unstable and too much dependent upon the size/density/shape of the wick itself because the juice-to-wick-to-coil path is so short and straight-shot direct.

But this is where xc-116 really shines. When you put a wick that is stiff, hollow and doesn't swell appreciably when wet into a direct-feed setup like the Fogger it can actually keep up, wicking-speed-wise, with the heat and vaporization speed of a lower ohm coil.

And so, the very design details that make the Fogger so damnably finicky with cotton are exactly what make the Fogger pretty damnably awesome when fitted with xc-116 instead.