You electric gurus can I get some help?

[the_vape_nerd]

I've been vaping fixed voltage now for nearly a year. An e-power and a few eGos passthroughs is all I have. I'm looking into a VV device but am in no rush to get one. I want to do my homework and have done a bit already. Mainly what I'm after is more vapor production, consistent hitting and something that would be durable. I've put up a separate post on the Pro Vari and I know it has a big following here.

What I really need help with today is for one or some of you to give me a simplistic breakdown on what all these things mean. I understand volts I guess and I understand ohms also. Volts are ...what... a measure of battery power? And ohms are a measure of resistance? Do I have that right?

Can someone explain to me first what volts, amps, ohms, and watts are in very simplistic terms?

And second can you provide a few real world vaping examples of how this might be used in terms of vaping on a VV device?

 

[elfstone]

I'm no electric guru, but this is one of the best posts I found: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...w-plus-bit-electronic-theory.html#post1988870

 

[BHam]

Thanks I was curious too.

I'm no electric guru, but this is one of the best posts I found: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...w-plus-bit-electronic-theory.html#post1988870

 

[elfstone]

Can someone explain to me first what volts, amps, ohms, and watts are in very simplistic terms?

In addition to that:

Volts - measure what is called "difference of potential"; essentially it measures how much "force" there is to drive the current through a circuit - you can make up several analogies, but the most common would be with pressure: the battery is like two gas cylinders, one at high pressure, one at low pressure and the voltage is the difference of pressure. If you connect them with a tube, the gas will flow...

Amps - refer to the electrical current - how much electricity flows through the circuit in a unit of time; it's the equivalent of flow rate as it were...

Ohms - refer to resistance - how hard does the circuit / conductor / atomizer coil fight against the flow of current

Watts - measure power. That translates into energy - power is energy in a unit of time. For us, this is the key measure because it directly translates into heat and that into amount of vapor and vapor warmth.

All of the above are related, to simplify everything to our case, by the fact that voltage pushes current to flow through a resistance and that generates heat. You try to push something through, and the wire fights back - things get heated

The higher the current and the higher the resistance, the more heat. It just so happens that the current matters much more than the resistance. The mathematical expression is:

Watts = Amps x Amps x Ohms​

BUT, this is a wonderful example on how two intuitive relationships combined give a less intuitive one.

The current itself depends on how hard it is pushed and how much resistance it encounters. That is logical, too... The mathematical expression is:

Amps = Volts / Ohms​

If you combine them, then you get:

Watts = Volts x Volts / Ohms​

So for practical purposes, to get the same power you can increase the Volts or decrease the Ohms within certain limits. You get more by increasing the volts than by decreasing the resistance by the same amount...

And second can you provide a few real world vaping examples of how this might be used in terms of vaping on a VV device?

Basically you vary your power to get a warmer or a cooler vapor. As you do that you find that for some juices, or for some times of the day even, you like a differently powered vape. Some juices taste better at a higher power, while some may get burned at that same power.

The variable voltage devices let you do that by changing the voltage, but you need to remember your power also depends on the resistance. If you lower the resistance, you will need less volts, so you have to kind of keep that in mind. Moreover, if you lower the resistance too much and you keep pushing a lot of volts, you can fry your low resistance atty.

But there is no need for you to really change the resistance of your atties if you use a variable voltage device, so most people settle on, say, 3 Ohms, and then only play with the voltage.

It's just something to keep in mind if you happen to put a differently resisted head on your PV...


The other type of devices are variable power: Darwin and the Kick. With these, you need not worry about the math, they do it for you; so regardless what resistance you put on, the Darwin / Kick will fix the voltage so you get the power you had set them on.

The only problem with that are dual coil devices. These have a low total resistance, but in fact they are made of two standard resistance coils linked in parallel. Therefore, they draw power like a low resistance attachment, but their vape is cooler, because it's pretty much as if you vaped two standard resistance attachments at the same time. Darwin/Kick doesn't know that and treats them according to their total resistance. You do get the power you set, but the warmth is no longer proportional to the power, because each coil gets only one part of that power...


OMG, this has grown into a monster, sorry

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Elfstone thank you for taking the time to type all that. I'm going to go and look at your link now. What you've said here IS helpful though I may need to re-read this a few times to really get it. The part about sticking with one resistance and manipulating ohms does make sense to me. Is the variable voltage experience worth it? i.e., is it really that much better?

 

[the_vape_nerd]

The link was also very very helpful. And the forumlas sort of even make sense to me now. I'm still going to do a bit more homework on the devices themselves but this gives me a basic understanding. Thanks again.

 

[Iffy]

Here is a most elementary analogy that worked for my basic electronic students:

Resistance = water pipe diameter
Voltage = water pressure at supply
Amperage (current flow) = water volume through pipe
Battery = supply water tank
Watts (power) = energy to deliver the water (V x A)

If you enlarge the pipe diameter (R), the volume (A) will increase and empty the tank (B) faster while maintaining the pressure (V) until the supply tank (B) can no longer keep the pipe full.

elfstone did a great job in the e-cig application!

 

[billo]

Think of a water circuit, like your house plumbing or a sprinker system.

Volts is like the water pressure. The more pressure the faster the water flows.

Amps is like the water flow rate. Lots of water flowing means lots of amps.

Resistance is like the resistance to water flow. A smaller pipe will have more resistance, hence lower water flow (amps). More sprinkler heads will produce less resistance to water flow , hence more water flow (amps).

Unfortunately, there is no obvious analogy for power.

 

[AttyPops]

The trick with e-cigs is... "What do/should I care about?"

With the device, check reviews of course. However, one thing seems to come up pretty frequently... amp limits.

Not a big deal for standard vaping. And that may be all you want/need. However, those out there that like to "rock" dual coil cartos often run into an amp-limit wall. As in, they need 3.x amps to fully power the carto, and the device is limited to 2.5 amps. Not uncommon, since most weren't designed with DCC's in mind.

Using some of the cool geek forumla above, we find that 2 3.2 ohm coils (a 1.6 ohm DCC) on a 5 volt device needs 3.125 amps. Which is 15.625 total watts, divided by 2 coils = 7.8125 watts per coil.

So you need to check the specs. 1) Can it get to 5 volts? 2) can it supply the 3.125 amps? Note that the dual coils are similar in concept to using two 3.2 ohm atomizers at the same time. You're using the battery up twice as fast. So, you need to account for that.

Basically, DCCs mean you need double everything. OTOH... I don't happen to think that you need a DCC when you have 5 volts anyway. I vape 3.1 ohm stuff at 5 v on my box mods (not even vv) without issue or even desire to go to DCCs. That's well under the 2.5 amp limit (1.6ish amps) that many vv devices have.

The other thing is that it's largely an experiential thing anyway. The math comes in when you want to understand what is going on. However, it doesn't matter that much as far as what 10th of a volt you dial in. That's a matter of personal taste and juice and atty.

In fact, I had designs on an e-cig that just had a simple dial and/or multi-colored LED with color coding so people would quit being so .... about exact voltage numbers. It's important to the design engineer, but user's eyes glaze over when you start talking about this stuff. Better to get a device that supports a wide range, and let them adjust it to preference. So this atty may be "red/orange" and this other SR one may move down the color gradient toward cooler blue. lol The colors could represent watts (assuming the microcontroller reads the load ohms) or just voltage. Either way, it's more of a personal preference thing.

That's the beauty of vv... you can adjust it.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Just wanted to thank everyone who responded. Trying now to go through product reviews. The money isnt that big of a deal to me, just want the best device.

 

[MickeyRat]

In fact, I had designs on an e-cig that just had a simple dial and/or multi-colored LED with color coding so people would quit being so .... about exact voltage numbers. It's important to the design engineer, but user's eyes glaze over when you start talking about this stuff. Better to get a device that supports a wide range, and let them adjust it to preference. So this atty may be "red/orange" and this other SR one may move down the color gradient toward cooler blue. lol The colors could represent watts (assuming the microcontroller reads the load ohms) or just voltage. Either way, it's more of a personal preference thing.

That's the beauty of vv... you can adjust it.

C'mon you don't need an LED just an adjustment wheel with a few marks to see about where it is. Meters are there to impress the tourists.

 

[elfstone]

T
In fact, I had designs on an e-cig that just had a simple dial and/or multi-colored LED with color coding so people would quit being so .... about exact voltage numbers. It's important to the design engineer, but user's eyes glaze over when you start talking about this stuff. Better to get a device that supports a wide range, and let them adjust it to preference. So this atty may be "red/orange" and this other SR one may move down the color gradient toward cooler blue. lol The colors could represent watts (assuming the microcontroller reads the load ohms) or just voltage. Either way, it's more of a personal preference thing.

This would be an excellent idea..

The other way around is the VV/VW all-in-one from Svoe Mesto. Does everything you want AND it gets software updates!!!

And their tubes are so amazing... I lust for one so bad!


Anyway... please help me, as I was looking for something I saw recently and now I can't find it - maybe you know: it was a new feeder mod that had what appeared to be color-coded power levels and a new type of precision feeding system based on an infusion pump. Anybody knows what that is? Or did I dream about it... Shht, maybe I did and I should've patented it instead of asking

 

[AttyPops]

IDK. Sorry. I'd search the modder's section 1st. Unless you think it was being offered by a vendor. Then...IDK what to tell you. If it was on ECF do a google search for "infusion pump" or something.

 

[elfstone]

Found it. Damn... I was beginning to think I had come up with that I like the looks. But it's not available yet AFAIK. If (and it;s a pretty big if) it really works, it could be an important PV.

I would link to the site, but it is so poorly designed and nasty looking (the site, not the PV) that I'm ashamed to do that.

ETA: Okay, I can link to Grimm's site, that looks nice: http://grimmgreen.com/post/2532515712/first-look-at-the-eclipse-eq-personal

 

[AttyPops]

C'mon you don't need an LED just an adjustment wheel with a few marks to see about where it is. Meters are there to impress the tourists.

LOL. Well, I meant a single LED for color (it would change color per setting. A single RGB LED "firing" indicator). And it was an OR dial. But thanks for the lol!

However, we're getting off topic on this stuff. Let's help the OP select a VV PV.
jbankston62871, what do you mean by "best"? What's "best" to you? That's the trick. Features vs costs vs personal opinion on mass produced/replaceable.

 

[elfstone]

I can't help him. I am too biased. All I can contribute is this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/elfstone/2558-provari-here-end-all-quests.html

Now, there are a few options and some of them good. Since the OP has stated money is not the issue, there is no need to start with eGo Twist, MadVapes VV Box or LavaTube (by any other name would smell as ...). Not even considering a discussion about Vision TOX (joke). Then... what's left, folks? I'll just jot down several that come to mind, in almost no particular order.... Let's each add what's missing and is worth considering...

0) Darwin - pros: it's almost perfect / cons: availablity, unusual form factor
1) VV Woodvil / VV Reo Grand - pros: solid built, beautiful; extra-function: bottom feeding is great / cons: availability, sort of difficult to set voltage, no display, bottom feeding has a small learning curve, but totally worth learning

2) Buzz Pro - pros: high-power, amp cutoff; reliable output / cons: ?esthetics, no display, stacked batteries (not as big of a deal as with "dumb" mods because it has a million protections)
3) Infinity Pro - same as above, but more pleasing to the eye, maybe?

* about no display -- some people really need numbers, such as myself; others don't. In fact, there is no objective need for numbers as what you are looking for is a great vape, not a certain voltage... you'll need to remember to reset the wheel when you change heads because Buzz doesn't give a damn if the setting makes sense for the resistance and will fry you atty/carto

3) VMax - I don't know much about it, but there are a couple of huge threads about it.... Pros: high power, amp limit; PWM circuit (better battery life) Cons: stacked batteries, Chinese (?con), resets when you remove batteries, looks like a malformed ProVari (?con); PBusardo figures that the voltages displayed are lower than what it really puts out which might be confusing / problematic if he is right

4) ...

 

[MickeyRat]

The only device that will protect you from leaving it set too high is the Darwin. The Buzz Pro, Infinity, Reo VV and VVPV (No one has mentioned that one but, it's pretty cool.) all use the same electronics and controls. All of those and the Provari will fry an LR device as long as the resistance of the device doesn't trigger the short protection. You get a little protection from that with the Provari but. it's not by design. The Provari has a lower current limit.

 

[wseternmd]

So why has no one mentioned the Provari, is it because no one wants a war or do you guys not consider it one of the top 5 out there?

 

[elfstone]

I have the ProVari so I said I was biased. I linked to my opinions on the ProVari. I'm not sure what the top is, but if the top made sense it would have Darwin and ProVari in classes of their own for features and quality, and then the top would follow

The only device that will protect you from leaving it set too high is the Darwin.

I agree that ProVari doesn't specifically protect against frying a low resistance carto. BUT it has a built-in Ohm readout. That helps. Also, I my strong opinion is to not use low resistance stuff on a VV mod, because you do not get extra vape quality and you just drain batteries faster.

 

[elfstone]

VVPV (No one has mentioned that one but, it's pretty cool.)

OKay so #4 (again, in no particular order):

VVPV - a "top feeder" from the same guys who make the Buzz and Infinity; It has a bottle of juice inside that is sort of like the soap dispensers - you push a button and it squirts juice through a tube that is connected with the base of the drip tip. It basically drips for you. I know next to nothing about it. Anyone?