Your "safe" vendors list please
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But what is the reason why manufacturers would put that stuff into their flavorings?
Because they are originally manufactured for going into the stomach. Not as fragile as the lungs and bronchi, you know.
It's not that manufactures are purposely putting it in their flavorings. You have to remember that none of this is really designed to be vaped. All the flavorings used where/are meant for food and to be ingested not inhaled. The flavoring companies are starting to remove the diketones from the flavorings but a lot of the flavorings really suffer in quality when that is done. Like anything, if it tastes good then it's probably bad for you, that's not just in vaping but food products in general. I myself don't really buy in to the diketones are the end of the world until there is more vaping related proof. But I can certainly see why others would, but then again most of us where smoking and even if you are vaping diketones you're already improving your health compared to smoking. To my knowledge there has been no diketone related illnesses from vaping reported yet. I also think that once diketones are removed then something else will pop up that shouldn't be inhaled and so on. My 2cents are that it's really just an endless circle. And if you're going to worry about diketones then you might as well start questioning everything else that goes in to your body both from food and everyday breathing of air. But everyone has their own opinion on this and mine certainly isn't for everyone.
In regards to safe vendors, Aemsa vendors aren't suppose to have DA or AP but I don't know that Aemsa actually checks or even if the vendors have to actually provide any proof other than just saying their juice doesn't have it, but someone else might be able to clarify that.
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Is there any place on this forum where a Safe list will be collected? It's really hard going through all the threads.
It would be very helpful to all if we had some place with no dialog - just a list of vendors/flavors that do Not have the bad stuff.
It would be very helpful to all if we had some place with no dialog - just a list of vendors/flavors that do Not have the bad stuff.
Safe according to what? The vendor? While I'm sure there are some vendors out there that post legit results, there will probably be just as many posting non legit results or results that don't tell the entire story simply to be on a "safe list" and to get business, and who will verify those results? Probably no one. If you really want to be safe, stop vaping and stop smoking then you will be safe. But I wouldn't trust vendors simply because they put test results out. That might upset some people but the truth is this industry has a lot of new money floating around and some vendors will do whatever they can to make a buck or two.
Safe was the wrong word.
What I meant to ask was - if we will collect in one place a list of vendors/flavors where statements have been made about lack of the bad compounds - DA, AP, etc.
What I meant to ask was - if we will collect in one place a list of vendors/flavors where statements have been made about lack of the bad compounds - DA, AP, etc.
There have been attempts in the past to do that, with varying results. For me, that's too much for me to ask of someone. So I figured if I got a list from folks who've already gone that path, it would give me a good starting point to do my own digging/asking. Hence this thread,
Mountain Oak Vapors tests all of their juice. There's a link to a PDF with the test results in each product description.
Acetoin may not be as problematic as diacetyl, but ap is pretty much identical to diacetyl from a molecular viewpoint according to both Dr. Farsalinos and Dr, Gilman, with likely the same potential for harm.
They have also come out with a brand new line of diketone free custards ( as has The Vapor Bar, linked earlier in this thread ).
Diketones are used for the specific flavor they impart, it's not a cost cutting measure. Most of the so called premium liquids ( custards, creams, vanillas, butterscotch etc... ) likely contain diketones. One specific premium vendor who claimed no diketones, had their juice tested by at least two different labs and were found full of diketones.
It's certain flavors that are problematic, it's not a China vs. U.S. issue.
Thanks for the Mountain Oak Vapor pointer. I will reach out to them. Keep them coming. Couple of good leads from this thread yet.
It doesnt have to be all or nothing, just because someone wants to be safer doesnt mean they should quit. If all we can have now is a list of people claiming to not have these chemicals then that is a start. It might lead to them being held accountable and we all benefit.
But the idea that if you are concerned and want to start a process of improving then you should just quit because it is not perfect is odd. It doesnt have to be all or none
Maybe a list on the largest internet vaping forum can help lead to self regulation by our community and help keep uncle sam out of it
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I've tried three of the custards from The Vapor Bar and they're pretty good. The vanilla flavor is a little lighter than I like, but it's a nice mild ADV. Their blackberry custard (called Night Phantom or something like that) is pretty darn good. Very heavy on the blackberry though.
The Strawberry Brulee from Mountain Oak Vapors is freaking great. I need to reorder it.
The Juice Mafia is another company that is testing their liquids. I don't know that they've tested them all yet, but they have links to lab reports in the description of some of their juices. I haven't tried any of them so I cannot comment on the quality.
ETA: Mountain Oak Vapors recently released a diketone free custard line too. I haven't tried any of them yet, but am really looking forward to it.
The Strawberry Brulee from Mountain Oak Vapors is freaking great. I need to reorder it.
The Juice Mafia is another company that is testing their liquids. I don't know that they've tested them all yet, but they have links to lab reports in the description of some of their juices. I haven't tried any of them so I cannot comment on the quality.
ETA: Mountain Oak Vapors recently released a diketone free custard line too. I haven't tried any of them yet, but am really looking forward to it.
Flavor houses have lied about this issue in the past and specifically came up with acetyl propyniol to replace diacetyl with, when they were caught.
I wrote ITC an email ( as i did to many others ) and they stated that they don't know about other diketones in the flavors, and they do not test themselves, nor have any plans to do so.
I am not saying that their juice is unsafe, but i would be surprised if their custards ( and some other sweet flavors ) are diketone free.
I think one of the key takeaways from Dr. F's study is that flavor houses are not to be trusted when it comes to diketones.
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