Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

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wv2win

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I don't have an Issue with someone who has to use an e-Cigarette 24-7.

But what I'm wondering is just How Much it effects someone's views on being able to vape Everywhere verses someone who can go as Long as they did when they Smoked.

Based on your many posts on public vaping, IMO, a more accurate, historical based interpretation of your comments would be "I have no problem with people wanting to vape 24/7, although to my untrained thinking, they must have a serious addiction problem, and that's OK with me, as long as they NEVER vape where smoking is prohibited, even though I always say I don't believe smoking and vaping are the same thing, but they should still be TREATED as if they are the same thing".
 
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Uma

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It really Doesn't matter if Nicotine is involved or Not.

The Plain and Simple Truth is that Many People can't get from the Cab to the Curb without taking a Hit of their PV. Some could call it more of a Pacifier than a PV.

So a person might ask, is it that Unusual for a Individual that uses a PV Constantly, and can Not Go the Same Amount of time between hits as with Analogs, to Want to be able to Vape Everywhere?

And that people who Can use e-Cigarette more like Analogs might have a More Moderate View on Indoor Vaping?

Newbies to vaping are still adjusting to life without the boosted nicotine with toxins they were dreadfully addicted to with real cigs all those years. The newbie puffs more often, because of that. The unadulterated, non boosted, nicotine of the eCig, does not hit as quickly or as hard as the real cigs boosted adulterated nicotine. You, of all people, being a Vaper, should know this.
Once the newbie Vaper's body adjusts to life without arsenic & lace, & they find the right gear, flavor, and nicotine strength sor their individual needs, they settle in. Once they are settled in, they easily dilute their nicotine levels as needed, without discomfort. This usually is common after the 3 month mark, provided they have the perfect for them setup as mentioned.
The more powerful the atomizer, the lower the nic levels needed too, but this should be reserved for those who are ready to be nicotine free, or at 6mg or lower. The thicker vapor clouds help them to transition from nic to zero nic, due to the volume of a satisfied cloud.
Some go to zero nic without the more powerful attys!
Its all individualistic.
Some newbies, who still crave smokes, should probably increase their nicotine level a notch.
Some chainvaper vets, could also benefit with either a more powerful set up, or a stronger nicotine.
We're all individuals, and the eCig allows us to manage our own independence away from smoking.
To belittle the newbie, the stressed out vet, or anyone, over a dependence or not, is in my book, uncalled for. Especially from a veteran Vaper.
Anyone who knows first hand the magic of the unadulterated eCig, knows beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the nicotine calms the fretter, helps one to focus on not smoking, and even helps to restore nerves and damaged brain cells. Who are you, or I, or anyone for that matter, a person with such perfection that we can't tolerate others imperfections? My sugar level is low, I need an apple. So demean me and tax me? Nicotine is no different. An imbalance is an imbalance, a dependence a dependence.
I was horribly addicted to real cigs. I craved one when I was smoking one! But eCigs are different. Instead of smoking 60 puffs an hour, and wishing for more, I vape roughly once ever 5-10 minutes with the nicotine level of my choice. When I have to be somewhere I can't vape, I grab a 36mg clearomizer. When I'm vaping all day, I vape zero to 16mg, depending on the day, my attitude, the time of day, my level of comfort.
I am not alone.

Loops, on my high horse. But, sheeeeeesh.
 

p.opus

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Unfortunately p.opus, much of what you have listed is going to Happen if people use an e-Cigarette in Non-Smoking Areas or if they Don't.

Taxes are Inevitable. Period. End of Report.

And it seems that you Have to Regulate something Before you can Tax it. And I don't think Anybody sees the FDA just turning a Blind Eye on e-Cigarettes. So Regulations are pretty much a Given Also.

So what does it get down to. Use and Sales.

Maybe Sales should be where the Grassroots Effort should be Putting ALL of it's Resources?

I'm not sure what is more disturbing....

Don't Vape where you can't smoke...or....It's inevitable so bend over and take it up the ....

Taxes do not need to be inevitable. Taxes, especially on Tobacco and Liquor are obstensibly punitive "sin taxes" designed to pay for the increased health costs for the user and to punish "bad or immoral" behavior. Exactly what is it about vaping that deserves a tax? Vaping zero mg juice is a sin? Is Nicorette gum taxed 80% if not, why not? It contains that same evil nicotine as tobacco and e-juice.

And other than standard manufacturing controls, (like we already have with health supplements) no FDA regulation is required.

I can order all sorts of weight control aids, vitamins, and testosterone treatments which are sold openly without regulation with the exception of standard boiler plate "The FDA has not determined.....blah...blah...blah...."

But already we see a defeatist attitude.

I can't win, so I won't vape where I can't smoke. I can't win so I'll pay my punitive tax even though I am not doing anything that justifies such a tax. I can't win, so I'll let my insurance company treat me as a tobacco user and charge me 50% surcharge on my health insurance even though I am not participating in any behavior that is any more hazardous than your typical non smoker. (Even a non smoker who lives with a smoker and is exposed to EVIL SHS but somehow isn't required to pay.....)

Challenges to the existing bans require these states to put forth evidence that the behavior necesistates a ban. Now the municipality has to SHOW public risk. They have to prove it in a court of law. And if they can't prove it, then it also makes continued FDA regulation a much harder sell.

You do realize that saccharine is no longer required to be labeled by the FDA. So just because the FDA will most likely regulate e-cigs, doesn't mean they will be able to continue to do so.

And if the it is down to Use and Sales, then I choose Use. Perhaps the government will allow me to buy their "approved" device, provided, btw, courtesy of Big Tobacco. But if I continue to use publicly and proud, then more and more people ask, what's the big deal.....
 
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DC2

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I'm not going to go down the Nicotine Is/Isn't Addictive Rabbit Hole.

That is why I posted this...
Yes.

But I have noticed in this thread that you seem to feel there is a large percentage that are growing their addictions.
If so, that would certainly help me understand some of the viewpoints you appear to hold.

So I ask for your opinion on the matter to help me understand.
 

wv2win

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I really don't have an "axe to grind" with anyone. And it wasn't my intention to call anyone out, and as a result, I've deleted the names in the post. Personal attacks help no one.

My point is that the argument that you should only vape where you can smoke, or you shouldn't vape where you can't smoke is too simplistic.

We all know it's not that easy. We also know that public vapers are not the cause of all this anti e-cig legislation.

Unfortunately everyday we lose a bit of ground. I was actually kind of excited last October, but a lot has changed. Towns are instituting blanket bans on e-cigs where smoking is not allowed. They aren't even taking a common sense approach to the matter. And there is no reason to believe that a town like San Rafael would create the toughest anti-smoking legislation in the United States and then suddenly be progressive in terms of e-cig usage.

It's not going down like that. I hate to say it, but we will be lucky if we can even order our vaping supplies online by the end of the year. I personally don't want to have to hike to my local "head shop and vapor store" and be so limited in my selection. All of the best things I found in vaping, I got online. My local stores barely know what a protank is, and only one I've been to recognized my MVP... Most of them are selling CE4's and ego starter kits with generic juice from China.

Instead of burying our heads in the sand and hoping the bad people will go away, we really need to start challenging some of these bans in the court system. They are hurting business owners, they are hurting ex smokers, and all because of a concentrated movement to eliminate vaping entirely.

Every successful municipal ban that goes unchallenged leads to dozens of more city councils putting it up on their docket. We won't have the freedom to go to a vape convention like I will be going to in Tampa this weekend because no business owner will be allowed to host one.

And it really doesn't matter what the average joe thinks. I used to think pure "education" was the answer. Most people I know don't have a problem with my vaping. But none of them care enough to overturn an existing ban because..."It doesn't apply to me...."

When smoking was banned in the 80's on airplane trips less than 2 hours. Most smokers saw the logic of that argument. We understood that a confined space with limited ventilation was not the "best place" to smoke. By 1998 that ban was extended to all domestic flights regardless of length. Shortly thereafter it was banned on all flights international or domestic.

Never in my wildest dreams, did I think that acquiescing to something as trival as smoking on a plane would lead to a law that would make it illegal to smoke in my own home if it shared a wall with a neighbor.

We've all been down this road before. We know where it leads. The constitutionality of these vaping bans has to be challenged and challenged immediately.

We can't count on non-vapers to do it.....

Excellent commentary on why any bans on an activity that does no harm to others is dangerous on so many levels and what it can lead to.

I Never thought you were Calling Anyone Out. I have read Many of your Posts and know that you are Very Passionate about e-Cigarettes.

I just didn't want someone Feeling like they were being put on the Spot. And that their Views on Vaping in Public were the Same as the Extreme Views of Smoking Cigarettes in a Common Walled Dwelling that some San Refael Elected Officials have.

It never ceases to amaze me how you either just don't understand the real issue OR (and more likely) you do understand, but because you agree with restricting vaping where smoking is restricted, you would rather just make a comment that totally ignores the relevant point. Along with an observation that you can't develop a response that can challenge the core point.
 
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wv2win

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I really don't have an "axe to grind" with anyone. And it wasn't my intention to call anyone out, and as a result, I've deleted the names in the post. Personal attacks help no one.

My point is that the argument that you should only vape where you can smoke, or you shouldn't vape where you can't smoke is too simplistic.

We all know it's not that easy. We also know that public vapers are not the cause of all this anti e-cig legislation.

Unfortunately everyday we lose a bit of ground. I was actually kind of excited last October, but a lot has changed. Towns are instituting blanket bans on e-cigs where smoking is not allowed. They aren't even taking a common sense approach to the matter. And there is no reason to believe that a town like San Rafael would create the toughest anti-smoking legislation in the United States and then suddenly be progressive in terms of e-cig usage.

It's not going down like that. I hate to say it, but we will be lucky if we can even order our vaping supplies online by the end of the year. I personally don't want to have to hike to my local "head shop and vapor store" and be so limited in my selection. All of the best things I found in vaping, I got online. My local stores barely know what a protank is, and only one I've been to recognized my MVP... Most of them are selling CE4's and ego starter kits with generic juice from China.

Instead of burying our heads in the sand and hoping the bad people will go away, we really need to start challenging some of these bans in the court system. They are hurting business owners, they are hurting ex smokers, and all because of a concentrated movement to eliminate vaping entirely.

Every successful municipal ban that goes unchallenged leads to dozens of more city councils putting it up on their docket. We won't have the freedom to go to a vape convention like I will be going to in Tampa this weekend because no business owner will be allowed to host one.

And it really doesn't matter what the average joe thinks. I used to think pure "education" was the answer. Most people I know don't have a problem with my vaping. But none of them care enough to overturn an existing ban because..."It doesn't apply to me...."

When smoking was banned in the 80's on airplane trips less than 2 hours. Most smokers saw the logic of that argument. We understood that a confined space with limited ventilation was not the "best place" to smoke. By 1998 that ban was extended to all domestic flights regardless of length. Shortly thereafter it was banned on all flights international or domestic.

Never in my wildest dreams, did I think that acquiescing to something as trival as smoking on a plane would lead to a law that would make it illegal to smoke in my own home if it shared a wall with a neighbor.

We've all been down this road before. We know where it leads. The constitutionality of these vaping bans has to be challenged and challenged immediately.

We can't count on non-vapers to do it.....

I'm not sure what is more disturbing....

Don't Vape where you can't smoke...or....It's inevitable so bend over and take it up the ....

Taxes do not need to be inevitable. Taxes, especially on Tobacco and Liquor are obstensibly punitive "sin taxes" designed to pay for the increased health costs for the user and to punish "bad or immoral" behavior. Exactly what is it about vaping that deserves a tax? Vaping zero mg juice is a sin? Is Nicorette gum taxed 80% if not, why not? It contains that same evil nicotine as tobacco and e-juice.

And other than standard manufacturing controls, (like we already have with health supplements) no FDA regulation is required.

I can order all sorts of weight control aids, vitamins, and testosterone treatments which are sold openly without regulation with the exception of standard boiler plate "The FDA has not determined.....blah...blah...blah...."

But already we see a defeatist attitude.

I can't win, so I won't vape where I can't smoke. I can't win so I'll pay my punitive tax even though I am not doing anything that justifies such a tax. I can't win, so I'll let my insurance company treat me as a tobacco user and charge me 50% surcharge on my health insurance even though I am not participating in any behavior that is any more hazardous than your typical non smoker. (Even a non smoker who lives with a smoker and is exposed to EVIL SHS but somehow isn't required to pay.....)

Challenges to the existing bans require these states to put forth evidence that the behavior necesistates a ban. Now the municipality has to SHOW public risk. They have to prove it in a court of law. And if they can't prove it, then it also makes continued FDA regulation a much harder sell.

You do realize that saccharine is no longer required to be labeled by the FDA. So just because the FDA will most likely regulate e-cigs, doesn't mean they will be able to continue to do so.

And if the it is down to Use and Sales, then I choose Use. Perhaps the government will allow me to buy their "approved" device, provided, btw, courtesy of Big Tobacco. But if I continue to use publicly and proud, then more and more people ask, what's the big deal.....

Two excellent responses. Too bad some just can't see the common sense and logic in your thinking. Because all vapers should rally around this thinking.
 

LDS714

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I'm not going to go down the Nicotine Is/Isn't Addictive Rabbit Hole.
Odd that this keeps coming up.

Nicotine is definitely addictive. It's as addictive and as dangerous as another compound I and millions of other Americans consume on a daily basis - caffeine. Main difference? Nicotine isn't marketed to and widely available to minors.
 

wv2win

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Odd that this keeps coming up.

Nicotine is definitely addictive. It's as addictive and as dangerous as another compound I and millions of other Americans consume on a daily basis - caffeine. Main difference? Nicotine isn't marketed to and widely available to minors.

I don't find it odd, when considering who injected it into this particular discussion. Misdirection and irrelevancy is akin to the "Hail Mary Pass" in football.
 

LDS714

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Myk

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If you would kindly be more specific...

I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not fond of you or your drones. That's why I avoid direct interaction with you and your ilk as much as possible. You're the hard-liners I think of specifically if you'd rather me be specific as well. I'm starting a new term for me and my ilk. AZZ. LOL! We're the anti-zealot zealots!

"AZZ, party of one! Your table's ready!

I'd hate to see you run into someone who's actually militant about vaping if you call people who are being respectful zealots. Generally when you call someone who's towards the middle the extreme you should have a hint at just how extreme the other direction you are.



No Problem.

The Word I was Looking for was "Addiction".

It isn't brought up here much. But I wonder how much Addiction to Using an e-Cigarette plays in Some People "Vape Everywhere" view?

And before the Obligatory replies pour in that "Nicotine Isn't Addictive" or some Silly Comparison of Nicotine to things like Coffee/Caffeine, I said "Addiction to Using an e-Cigarette".

Mine is medical. If it was just using an ecig I'd deal with it in the one place it is banned that I wouldn't follow (hospital).
Don't need to press the fire button to get flavor and "use" it. If I'm doing something that keeps my attention I often have to remind myself to take a vape break.

In reply to another of your posts, couldn't it be more likely that the people with the more extreme view of vaping indoors when allowed and reasonable live in places with weather? I even told a San Diego politician that my view is more applicable to places with winter.
Wanna really cool off your coil, try pulling -14° air across it. Try pressing tiny button with heavy gloves on.
 
From the public's eye on appearances alone.
1. I have no idea what chemicals or drugs are in your gadgets.
2. That plume of smoke may smell sweet but so does antifreeze
3. The FDA/Government has not told me it's safe to my family or I to breath in the vapor you exhale.
4. Secondhand does not just come from the cherry of a cigarette it is also what ones lungs do not absorb and is exhaled.

The majority of the public's eyes are not reading/studying information all over the net on these devices. Most pepole at first sight don't see a vapor they see a smoke in a public place. That is connected with what they read or see in the media.

What we do in the public's eye WILL shape the publics and officials vote and make the bed we will have to lay in. Unfortunately because people can not be persuaded that vapping etiquette will save there freedom, we will inevitably loose that freedom.

I don't think that women was right to vape in the doctors office but I also don't think calling her out to the attention of the doctors office was the best idea ether. Discrete confrontation maybe. However in the heat of the moment we all make poor judgments often.
 

p.opus

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From the public's eye on appearances alone.
1. I have no idea what chemicals or drugs are in your gadgets.
2. That plume of smoke may smell sweet but so does antifreeze
3. The FDA/Government has not told me it's safe to my family or I to breath in the vapor you exhale.
4. Secondhand does not just come from the cherry of a cigarette it is also what ones lungs do not absorb and is exhaled.

The majority of the public's eyes are not reading/studying information all over the net on these devices. Most pepole at first sight don't see a vapor they see a smoke in a public place. That is connected with what they read or see in the media.

What we do in the public's eye WILL shape the public's and officials vote and make the bed we will have to lay in. Unfortunately because people can not be persuaded that vaping etiquette will save there freedom, we will inevitably loose that freedom.

I don't think that women was right to vape in the doctors office but I also don't think calling her out to the attention of the doctors office was the best idea ether. Discrete confrontation maybe. However in the heat of the moment we all make poor judgments often.

Our politicians are not doing "the voters will" because the public is outraged over vaping. There is no public "outcry" against vaping. That is an irrational fear that many vapers hold to and justifies their self righteous anger when they see someone else do it...."they'll ruin it for everyone" is the common clarion cry.

No, the overwhelming evidence is that the politicians and policy makers are responding to $$$$. When the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement was done in 1998. Big Tobacco agreed to pay 10 BILLION dollars to states as part of the settlement in perpetuity. This money is SUPPOSED to be used for public health initiatives and to prevent tobacco use in kids.

The idea was keep kids from smoking and let existing smokers die out. States soon realized that if there were no new smokers, then their settlement funds would dry up. After all, the settlement is based on percentage of sales. So a majority of states have done NOTHING to prevent youth smoking with the exception of public service announcements and the creation of organizations of groups like Tobacco Free Kids. Also, the states continue to pass groundless legislation that restricts WHERE you can smoke, but not where you can buy them. This is why you don't see State run Tobacco stores. The idea is keep them readily accessible, so that you can continue to collect your settlement funds.

Now comes e-cigs, which have grown into a 1 Billion dollar industry and our elected officials are now looking at a product that not only negatively impacts CURRENT tobacco sales, but has the potential to negatively impact future tobacco sales. Here is a product that could actually fulfill the goals set out by the MSA. Here is a product that actually could replace smoking, AND effectively shut out 46 states of roughly 10 Billion dollars a year.

And SHOCK...Youth smokers are turning to e-cigs as well. OH OH....10 BILLION Dollars per year to the 46 member states is now in jeopardy... AND don't think Big Tobacco isn't reminding states of this as well. If we don't sell our product, you don't get your money. So now we hear the "Save The Children" cry regarding e-cigs.....

So now the states are pressuring their local communities to ban e-cigs wherever smoking is banned and telling local communities if they don't pass these restrictions, they don't get a share of the Tobacco money because they are "non compliant". Meanwhile, States are attempting to ban internet sales, because a large part of the Billion dollar industry is based on internet sales.

As a result, towns and states are trying to kill the industry that can effectively cost them 10 Billion dollars a year alone in settlement money, not to mention the tobacco tax they receive based on sales, and vapers think that public vaping is the reason.....Wake up!!!

Follow the money.
 
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Anjaffm

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Our politicians are not doing "the voters will" because the public is outraged over vaping. There is no public "outcry" against vaping. That is an irrational fear that many vapers hold to and justifies their self righteous anger when they see someone else do it...."they'll ruin it for everyone" is the common clarion cry.

No, the overwhelming evidence is that the politicians and policy makers are responding to $$$$. When the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement was done in 1998. Big Tobacco agreed to pay 10 BILLION dollars to states as part of the settlement in perpetuity. This money is SUPPOSED to be used for public health initiatives and to prevent tobacco use in kids.

The idea was keep kids from smoking and let existing smokers die out. States soon realized that if there were no new smokers, then their settlement funds would dry up. After all, the settlement is based on percentage of sales. So a majority of states have done NOTHING to prevent youth smoking with the exception of public service announcements and the creation of organizations of groups like Tobacco Free Kids. Also, the states continue to pass groundless legislation that restricts WHERE you can smoke, but not where you can buy them. This is why you don't see State run Tobacco stores. The idea is keep them readily accessible, so that you can continue to collect your settlement funds.

Now comes e-cigs, which have grown into a 1 Billion dollar industry and our elected officials are now looking at a product that not only negatively impacts CURRENT tobacco sales, but has the potential to negatively impact future tobacco sales. Here is a product that could actually fulfill the goals set out by the MSA. Here is a product that actually could replace smoking, AND effectively shut out 46 states of roughly 10 Billion dollars a year.

And SHOCK...Youth smokers are turning to e-cigs as well. OH OH....10 BILLION Dollars per year to the 46 member states is now in jeopardy... AND don't think Big Tobacco is reminding states of this as well. If we don't sell our product, you don't get your money.

So now the states are pressuring their local communities to ban e-cigs wherever smoking is banned and telling local communities if they don't pass these restrictions, they don't get a share of the Tobacco money because they are "non compliant". Meanwhile, States are attempting to ban internet sales, because a large part of the Billion dollar industry is based on internet sales.

As a result, towns and states are trying to kill the industry that can effectively cost them 10 Billion dollars a year alone in settlement money, not to mention the tobacco tax they receive based on sales, and vapers think that public vaping is the reason.....Wake up!!!

Follow the money.

well said, p.opus!
+ 1

This should be a must read for all new vapers.
 

Jman8

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From the public's eye on appearances alone.
1. I have no idea what chemicals or drugs are in your gadgets.

Curious where you are getting this information from, as you seem to be suggesting this is true for majority of the public. I'm thinking you are guessing at this rather than operating from some data, but even as a guess, it is worth addressing.

With this one, I think it is a fair prejudice for the public to have. But is equally fair to suggest this is true with everything in public, i.e. medical inhalers, people's drinks carried into public, what people exhale normally into the air, people's BO, and umpteen other items I could name. Again, I am saying it is equally fair to what this point is making. Whether or not it is equally accurate is what my first sentence was getting at.

But fact is, if we were either called out or person did a little homework on their own, they would be able to determine what it is we are likely carrying around in our gadgets, and could then come from informed position rather than jump to paranoid conclusion that because they are ignorant of what's in it, it means automatically that it might be harmful. As this thread brought up exhaled air as being on par with exhaled vapor, I truly believe that is equal in terms of this point. And as was said earlier in the thread, even while breathing is a necessary function, all persons currently in a public situation could wear a mouth filter to overcome the possible (extreme) danger that comes from exhaled air. But as many choose not to, I think we can safely assume for purposes of this discussion, that overwhelming majority of public isn't as reactionary to this type of logic as we might wish to argue. Especially if I or any vaper considers experiences from either vaping in public and getting into discussion with strangers, or from vaping around friends/family who will be candid with us about the whole vaping experience from a non vapers perspective.

2. That plume of smoke may smell sweet but so does antifreeze

Have never heard anyone in public say this, never heard anyone on a vaping forum say they've encountered this, nor could I imagine someone saying this and leaving the conversation there. But even if they did, or thought this and chose to act on it in some sort of action against vapers, I would consider it as ignorance that is due correction, or paranoia that deserves to fester as long as that person is unwilling to overcome this sort of prejudice.

3. The FDA/Government has not told me it's safe to my family or I to breath in the vapor you exhale.

The FDA/Government has also not told Joe Public that it's safe to Joe's family or Joe to breath in the air that people exhale. What are we going to do?

4. Secondhand does not just come from the cherry of a cigarette it is also what ones lungs do not absorb and is exhaled.

I've always thought secondhand was what came from one's lungs upon exhale. Therefore, I've always thought it was about what people are exhaling after they have inhaled it, even when this has to do with those things that have a lit burning cherry on them. Thus secondhand would technically apply to the CO-2 that all humans exhale into the air. I heard humans can't breath in CO-2 or it will harm them. I (facetiously) wonder how humans are permitted to exhale CO-2 into the air, when other humans are around? Would seem like there'd be laws against that, as the fear alone would be reason enough to assure everyone, regardless of age, is wearing a mouth filter. Unless, maybe, the amount of CO-2 from secondhand wouldn't be harmful to all bystanders in the vicinity regardless of their distance to the person breathing that out into the air? You think? Hmmm, maybe this would apply to other things that are exhaled? I wonder how in this age, the information age, we could possibly find these sort of things out?

The majority of the public's eyes are not reading/studying information all over the net on these devices. Most pepole at first sight don't see a vapor they see a smoke in a public place. That is connected with what they read or see in the media.

Good, more demonstrations are needed to overcome this notion that vapor is smoke. One would think if vapers and smokers are side by side, this will only confuse the uninformed public, so as of this date, it is mandatory that vapers and smokers do not hang together when exhaling their substances. Even if both vapers and smokers are clear on the distinction, it is plausible others are not, and to help make it clear for everyone, then these two must never ever again be mixed in together as that would just confuse the person who doesn't know, is not sure of the distinction. If / when this is firmly in place, then the distinction could be even more clear than it already is to say all my non-smoking, non-vaping friends who took less than 30 seconds from the first time I vaped in front of them to distinguish between the two, and who have repeatedly told me since then that in their experience, from their perspective, the two are nothing like each other based on appearance of what is in my mouth or what they can smell.

What we do in the public's eye WILL shape the publics and officials vote and make the bed we will have to lay in. Unfortunately because people can not be persuaded that vapping etiquette will save there freedom, we will inevitably loose that freedom.

So again, all vapers reading this, do not vape in public around smokers ever, as it is likely you are shaping the public's eye to possibly think they are the same thing. Never again do this. If you think it is necessary, please explain why and consider context of this discussion in your rationale.

Also realize that we have people amongst us who may have no idea what vaping or vapor is as they have never been in a cold weather climate and seen vapor coming out of people's mouths. So, it is important to demonstrate this and be prepared, just a little bit, to explain how vapor works. Chances are they won't even ask you, but if they do, just be prepared to do some educating for those who will assume it must be smoke because it kinda looks like smoke, even while it doesn't smell anything like smoke. As not everyone has time or access to get this information online, it behooves the vaping community to be out in public vaping and prepared to talk about. Probably at this time, it would be best to treat government as working against the open and honest desire for reasonable education on vaping for the curious public. Meaning, some may even go as far as saying it is banned in a place, but that can't be reason to not educate, thru demonstration. Find out the reason for the ban. If it is because it looks like smoke and smoking is not allowed here, then you know your education is needed, and demonstration would be helpful. If it is because no one can possibly know what's in an eCig, then while demonstrating the relative harmlessness of your eCig/vaporizer, be sure to educate people on this relatively new subject called "science" and how science has studied and been able to determine what is in these things, as if it isn't some guarded secret that only a privileged few could possibly ever learn about.

I don't think that women was right to vape in the doctors office but I also don't think calling her out to the attention of the doctors office was the best idea ether. Discrete confrontation maybe. However in the heat of the moment we all make poor judgments often.

Given what you've put forth and my response, I think it is mandatory for the woman in OP to vape in public, especially at this time. Why a fellow vaper would put that action down seems odd, but is what it is.
 

Jay-dub

Moved On
Oct 10, 2013
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I'd hate to see you run into someone who's actually militant about vaping if you call people who are being respectful zealots. Generally when you call someone who's towards the middle the extreme you should have a hint at just how extreme the other direction you are.
As per our TEA BAG vs. NAZI debate, I'll let the readers decide. :)

Mine is medical. If it was just using an ecig I'd deal with it in the one place it is banned that I wouldn't follow (hospital).
Don't need to press the fire button to get flavor and "use" it. If I'm doing something that keeps my attention I often have to remind myself to take a vape break.

In reply to another of your posts, couldn't it be more likely that the people with the more extreme view of vaping indoors when allowed and reasonable live in places with weather?

Dogs are allowed in places where they normally wouldn't because of being a medical aid...

We always come back to the speculations of some are always actually accurate predictions of a dystopian future and everyone else is either ignorant, a paid double-agent, bad for vaping, blah blah blah. I see good intentions end with bad consequences and second guessing of decisions in situations where it may have not made a difference. Sometimes, there's no way of knowing what the right or wrong actions are until you get the results. Sorry if I'm being extreme.
 

Jay-dub

Moved On
Oct 10, 2013
934
1,607
Kansas City, MO
Just a couple of comments from folks who's logic would lead them to tell the San Rafael vaper to not vape in his own home..

This is the logic I'm fighting.....

They may agree with your logic in this specific case, or maybe in all cases similar. If an actual discussion could occur without all the... sideshow activity, it probably would have been parsed out 20 pages ago.
 

LDS714

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Aug 27, 2013
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Our politicians are not doing "the voters will" because the public is outraged over vaping. There is no public "outcry" against vaping. That is an irrational fear that many vapers hold to and justifies their self righteous anger when they see someone else do it...."they'll ruin it for everyone" is the common clarion cry.

No, the overwhelming evidence is that the politicians and policy makers are responding to $$$$. When the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement was done in 1998. Big Tobacco agreed to pay 10 BILLION dollars to states as part of the settlement in perpetuity. This money is SUPPOSED to be used for public health initiatives and to prevent tobacco use in kids.

The idea was keep kids from smoking and let existing smokers die out. States soon realized that if there were no new smokers, then their settlement funds would dry up. After all, the settlement is based on percentage of sales. So a majority of states have done NOTHING to prevent youth smoking with the exception of public service announcements and the creation of organizations of groups like Tobacco Free Kids. Also, the states continue to pass groundless legislation that restricts WHERE you can smoke, but not where you can buy them. This is why you don't see State run Tobacco stores. The idea is keep them readily accessible, so that you can continue to collect your settlement funds.

Now comes e-cigs, which have grown into a 1 Billion dollar industry and our elected officials are now looking at a product that not only negatively impacts CURRENT tobacco sales, but has the potential to negatively impact future tobacco sales. Here is a product that could actually fulfill the goals set out by the MSA. Here is a product that actually could replace smoking, AND effectively shut out 46 states of roughly 10 Billion dollars a year.

And SHOCK...Youth smokers are turning to e-cigs as well. OH OH....10 BILLION Dollars per year to the 46 member states is now in jeopardy... AND don't think Big Tobacco isn't reminding states of this as well. If we don't sell our product, you don't get your money. So now we hear the "Save The Children" cry regarding e-cigs.....

So now the states are pressuring their local communities to ban e-cigs wherever smoking is banned and telling local communities if they don't pass these restrictions, they don't get a share of the Tobacco money because they are "non compliant". Meanwhile, States are attempting to ban internet sales, because a large part of the Billion dollar industry is based on internet sales.

As a result, towns and states are trying to kill the industry that can effectively cost them 10 Billion dollars a year alone in settlement money, not to mention the tobacco tax they receive based on sales, and vapers think that public vaping is the reason.....Wake up!!!

Follow the money.
Outstanding summation!

Mind if I borrow in part or in whole?
 
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