SMPL Mod (clone) discussion

[mhertz]

Ninja and others in the know, could you please tell me where you get your springs to exchange out with in both smpl's and other mechs... I have two other smpl clones coming from FC that probably needs "fixing"...

Also, I read a post on fasttech someone stating that mech replacement springs wasn't needed to buy/find, since you could simply make your own with SS wire in appropriate gauge? Do you agree on this, and if you do, what gauge would you shoot for? Lastly, would you recommend other material than SS wire(copper etc.) This last option of just rolling-your-own springs, I hope is OK, since makes everything much easier for me, instead of go hunting down different sized springs in different lengths and materials...

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bad Ninja]

I actually bought a box of assorted springs from harbor freight a few years back and I just cut them to size. The whole box was like $6

Copper or SS solid wire will work too and is easy enough to find at the hardware store.

 

[mhertz]

Thank you very much!

Sorry, if I can just pick your brain one last time, please... What is your experience/theory with regards to springs vs magnets for low builds and avoiding hot-buttons?

I've read someplaces state magnets are the way to go in low sub-ohms because springs often collapse and/or needs repeated re-stretching, but most mods which seem to be designed for "high-heat" many times have springs up-front it seems?

That's why I got another smpl with magnets in addition to a copper c-clip style...

@All, Although off-topic, then I read something to me interesting... It stated that if taking the same mod in e.g. copper vs SS, then the copper would be marginally better performing, not because of the better conductivity from the different metals used, but because of e.g. copper to copper contacts transported the current much better than between e.g. SS to SS. Probably old news to most, but not something I personally had thought about... Although in the smpl's case, then the copper version is only copper to copper in the body and not between contact points(brass to brass and to copper) - Something I do have wondered about though, although there's a clone version with copper-switch, but not c-clip style unfortunately, but the extra threaded piece version.

 

[Bad Ninja]

In my experience, springs work great if they are decent springs.
Eventually they will weaken.
Magnets don't weaken like springs, but are fragile.
I don't personally see an improvement in performance by using magnets other than longevity, or a customized throw.

As far as the hot button issue, a better spring will solve it just as well as magnets.



As a side note:
My brass Knurled King clone with copper contacts hits as hard as any one piece copper mod I own with a .2 build.

 

[mhertz]

Thanks again, Ninja!

Btw, for others thinking to make springs yourself for the smpl or other mechs, to relieve hot-buttons, fix collapsed springs or just simply to loosen/stiffen the throw, then here's a couple of quotes from johnny_469(200 reviews / 15000 posts) from the FT forum :

I really like using high grade SS wire for springs. The thinner the wire, the lower the grade I use.

I like 20AWG 316L SS wire for larger/thicker springs, and 304 SS for thinner wire springs in mods.

A LOT of mods also accept and do well with copper wire though. Coaxial cable inner wire works really well sometimes (It can be solid copper or steel reinforced copper between 20AWG and 16AWG depending on the coax wire).

Source: We asked for SMPL switches so long ago...: FastTech Forums

Not just for coils.
I was at the craft store, and on random chance, came across a few meters of 20AWG 316L SS wire for a good price, so I bought some, but not to use for coils, to use for springs in some of my mech mod switches.

This turns out to be perfect for 5 of my mods as a spring material: All 3 of my Nemesis, my Astro, and my Caravela. It's a bit tricky to get the right diameter with simple coil wrapping tools and the like, but it works marvelously!

This wire is super easy to work with, has "memory", and work hardens nicely. I was easily able to hit a perfect balance where my mods won't autofire standing unlocked on the table, but are still easy enough to fire with a pinky.

Very happy with the mechanical qualities of 20AWG 316L SS wire.

Source: Not just for coils.: FastTech Forums

 

[Mrez]

I hate dredging up an old topic here, but just need confirmation on something. I have an older SS SMPL clone from infinite with the old style C clip button. I've been plagued with the hot button issue. I've stripped it down and cleaned it a few times and did so again today. Brasso to clean up any oxidation, I sanded out the arc marks on the brass contact, wiped everything down to remove any residue. Washed it, dried it. I used a rough terry cloth to get into all the threads on the button and mod body itself. I also stretched the spring and cleaned up the spring as best I could. After all said and done, I put a .24 build on it and sure enough, hot button again. I'd like to take this mod with me on vacation, but the loss of voltage is making me nuts. At this point the last option I have is replacing the spring correct (as mentioned above)? Should I got with a thicker gauge wire to make the spring? Or does Harbor Freight or someplace similar have something suitable?

 

[Kprthevapr]

I hate dredging up an old topic here, but just need confirmation on something. I have an older SS SMPL clone from infinite with the old style C clip button. I've been plagued with the hot button issue. I've stripped it down and cleaned it a few times and did so again today. Brasso to clean up any oxidation, I sanded out the arc marks on the brass contact, wiped everything down to remove any residue. Washed it, dried it. I used a rough terry cloth to get into all the threads on the button and mod body itself. I also stretched the spring and cleaned up the spring as best I could. After all said and done, I put a .24 build on it and sure enough, hot button again. I'd like to take this mod with me on vacation, but the loss of voltage is making me nuts. At this point the last option I have is replacing the spring correct (as mentioned above)? Should I got with a thicker gauge wire to make the spring? Or does Harbor Freight or someplace similar have something suitable?

What kinda atty are ya using?

 

[Mrez]

What kinda atty are ya using?

I use a number of different atties; vulcan, velocity, vector, derringer, and a few others. All with center pins long enough to work on direct to battery mods. Definitely not an issue with the atties or build, as they work fine on my other single tube direct to battery devices.

 

[Kprthevapr]

I use a number of different atties; vulcan, velocity, vector, derringer, and a few others. All with center pins long enough to work on direct to battery mods. Definitely not an issue with the atties or build, as they work fine on my other single tube direct to battery devices.

Hmmm...I use my SMPL with my derringer built at .32. The only thing different that I do, is Noalox. I use it on the inside of the button and on the threads of the button, just a very light coat around the inside edge of the button.

Not my pic...google provided

 

[Mrez]

Hmmm...I use my SMPL with my derringer built at .32. The only thing different that I do, is Noalox. I use it on the inside of the button and on the threads of the button, just a very light coat around the inside edge of the button.
View attachment 528815
Not my pic...google provided

I haven't tried noalox, but I have used oxgaurd in the same general way. Still nada, though it preformed very well on my XXIX.

 

[Kprthevapr]

Loaded Springs Mod Spring Replacement 016- SMPL Mods, MCR Mods, Kontra Mod, Paragon v1

 

[sonicbomb]

You may be getting micro-arcing in the button threads, try some Noalox.

 

[duc916]

A spring as opposed to magnets will only prolong the inevitable hot button by maybe a few puffs. No spring is ever intended to be the primary conductor. There's gotta be arcing or oxidation somewhere. Are the vertical surfaces of the wavy ridges inside the button getting polished and Ox-Gard'ed too? Maybe the fitment isn't as tight it used to be from wear and tear..?

 

[mhertz]

I have 3 smpl clones which all does this when using low enough builds. Also a king v2, but a little rarer... My smpl with magnets is def. no better than the spring types... If some of you guys don't have it, then I suspect you use higher builds than I/we with issues do... Of course everything should be clean that's a given already...

I suspect it's what sonicbomb stated, i.e. button-thread-tolerances > arching, but don't know personally... Btw, the spring listed by Kprthevapr has gotten good reviews by many with this issue also... However, you should be able to get the same I believe with e.g. stripping some coax cable and making your own copper spring, I'm gonna try that I think... I would rather buy a spool though, but have a hard time navigating around all the different types and with e.g. different protective stuff on it I would avoid etc. Of course if making your own, you need to clean it much more often, as it's not plated like the loaded spring is...

Btw, check out the VD difference with stock vs copper spring here, but on other mod though:

Loaded Springs Mechanical Mod Springs

Check out harbor freight, as I can see they have e.g. a 100 or 200 piece assorted spring set which is nickel plated for under 10 bucks... Maybe it's the same as ninja uses to magically never have hot-buttons in any of his gazillion mechs... Somehow I still suspect much is in the difference of resistances used... I cannot find the same in my country, though... I have bought several springs in bronze and in copper alloy and some gold-plated, but they don't freakin' fit! Then I've made my own of SS316L 20g, which doesn't help the issue, but because it's so thick I cannot make as much wraps as normal, which I dont now is fine or not? I would guess it is actually better, as lesser resistance then, but dunno? Of course I could wrap it in an in/outgoing-shape, but haven't been able to yet lol...

Personally, I am using more parallel boxes than tube mechs, and there the issue is often better thankfully...

Btw, it doesn't always come... It can be fine for 20 minuttes and then bam, hot-button if not resting for eg. 15 minuttes... And no, the battery is not hot as I know my battery specs and adhere to them! (Sorry )

Another very imho plausible theory i've thought about, is that since the button isn't 100% "stable", meaning it can be pressed slightly skewed in, then the negative contact-pin can at times touch the battery at an angle, which I suspect leads to arcing at the side not fully touching then, and hence sparks > hot-botton... This is an issue of many tube mechs, I suspect...

I need to get various oxidation/conductivity products, but I need to get them from overseas and they are really expensive... If I knew it would fix it, then fine, money worth it for sure, but some report mixed results... E.g the "top-dog"; deoxit gold, is crazy expensive and especially from overseas... If everything is clean to begin with, I have a hard time understanding how these products are improving things to a noticable degree imho, but I guess e.g. bad thread-tolerances could be sorta over-come by such conducting layer(noalox/deoxit etc), but dunno for sure...

I'm on a budget currently, so cannot just spend without proper justification, and e.g. I can get several nice parallel boxes for the price of one jar of deoxit, so haven't bothered yet...

 

[Mrez]

A spring as opposed to magnets will only prolong the inevitable hot button by maybe a few puffs. No spring is ever intended to be the primary conductor. There's gotta be arcing or oxidation somewhere. Are the vertical surfaces of the wavy ridges inside the button getting polished and Ox-Gard'ed too? Maybe the fitment isn't as tight it used to be from wear and tear..?

They are getting worked, but probably not as well as other parts of the button housing as a result of the tight space. The reason I'm inclined to believe it's a spring issue, is it feels like one side of the button gets hot. I did order some stainless steel, so I'm going to attempt making a spring for this thing in a few days. One thing I am uncertain of is the resistance in the spring vrs the resistance in the coil, should it be higher or lower?

 

[Mrez]

I have 3 smpl clones which all does this when using low enough builds. Also a king v2, but a little rarer... My smpl with magnets is def. no better than the spring types... If some of you guys don't have it, then I suspect you use higher builds than I/we with issues do... Of course everything should be clean that's a given already...

I suspect it's what sonicbomb stated, i.e. button-thread-tolerances > arching, but don't know personally... Btw, the spring listed by Kprthevapr has gotten good reviews by many with this issue also... However, you should be able to get the same I believe with e.g. stripping some coax cable and making your own copper spring, I'm gonna try that I think... I would rather buy a spool though, but have a hard time navigating around all the different types and with e.g. different protective stuff on it I would avoid etc. Of course if making your own, you need to clean it much more often, as it's not plated like the loaded spring is...

Btw, check out the VD difference with stock vs copper spring here, but on other mod though:

Loaded Springs Mechanical Mod Springs

Check out harbor freight, as I can see they have e.g. a 100 or 200 piece assorted spring set which is nickel plated for under 10 bucks... Maybe it's the same as ninja uses to magically never have hot-buttons in any of his gazillion mechs... Somehow I still suspect much is in the difference of resistances used... I cannot find the same in my country, though... I have bought several springs in bronze and in copper alloy and some gold-plated, but they don't freakin' fit! Then I've made my own of SS316L 20g, which doesn't help the issue, but because it's so thick I cannot make as much wraps as normal, which I dont now is fine or not? I would guess it is actually better, as lesser resistance then, but dunno? Of course I could wrap it in an in/outgoing-shape, but haven't been able to yet lol...

Personally, I am using more parallel boxes than tube mechs, and there the issue is often better thankfully...

Btw, it doesn't always come... It can be fine for 20 minuttes and then bam, hot-button if not resting for eg. 15 minuttes... And no, the battery is not hot as I know my battery specs and adhere to them! (Sorry )

Another very imho plausible theory i've thought about, is that since the button isn't 100% "stable", meaning it can be pressed slightly skewed in, then the negative contact-pin can at times touch the battery at an angle, which I suspect leads to arcing at the side not fully touching then, and hence sparks > hot-botton... This is an issue of many tube mechs, I suspect...

I need to get various oxidation/conductivity products, but I need to get them from overseas and they are really expensive... If I knew it would fix it, then fine, money worth it for sure, but some report mixed results... E.g the "top-dog"; deoxit gold, is crazy expensive and especially from overseas... If everything is clean to begin with, I have a hard time understanding how these products are improving things to a noticable degree imho, but I guess e.g. bad thread-tolerances could be sorta over-come by such conducting layer(noalox/deoxit etc), but dunno for sure...

I'm on a budget currently, so cannot just spend without proper justification, and e.g. I can get several nice parallel boxes for the price of one jar of deoxit, so haven't bothered yet...

I think I'm going to order one of those spring if the SS wire I bought doesn't pan out. Shame they don't make one for the Workhorse. I have one of those that I dont use for the same reason. I have that Mizrah box mod, a copper stingray, and an XXIX that are all in regular rotation. But because they are all authentics, I will not bring them on vacation overseas with me. The SMPL is an infinite clone that doesnt seem much use anymore, but is perfect for sitting on a beach on a tropical island. Since I've got a vacation coming up, I'd like to get it sorted out, without buying another clone. I'll have to skulk around Loews and Home Depot to see if they have any copper wire.

 

[duc916]

One thing I am uncertain of is the resistance in the spring vrs the resistance in the coil, should it be higher or lower?

Spring resistance should be irrelevant if the body of the switch is up to snuff. A spring in a switch can be 0.1 ohm or 10000 ohms, it shouldn't matter... as long as the body of the switch is where it should be at .0005 ohms (or something on that extreme order). It doesn't matter what's in parallel with it.

Resistors in parallel (switch and spring) is calculated like this: 1/(Rtotal) = 1/(Rswitch) + 1/(Rspring)

That formula shows overall resistance across the switch will still be roughly .0005 ohms whether your spring conducts a lot or not at all. If the resistance of the switch (Rtotal) starts to creep up to 0.1 or 0.2 ohms, and you have a 0.2 ohm coil in series with it, now it's dropping half your available power and burning your finger.

 

[Mrez]

Spring resistance should be irrelevant if the body of the switch is up to snuff. A spring in a switch can be 0.1 ohm or 10000 ohms, it shouldn't matter... as long as the body of the switch is where it should be at .0005 ohms (or something on that extreme order). It doesn't matter what's in parallel with it.

Resistors in parallel (switch and spring) is calculated like this: 1/(Rtotal) = 1/(Rswitch) + 1/(Rspring)

That formula shows overall resistance across the switch will still be roughly .0005 ohms whether your spring conducts a lot or not at all. If the resistance of the switch (Rtotal) starts to creep up to 0.1 or 0.2 ohms, and you have a 0.2 ohm coil in series with it, now it's dropping half your available power and burning your finger.

So...if I end up with a hot button again even after I make up my own spring, then the switch is pretty much botched. I cleaned that thing pretty thoroughly a few days ago, and got the hot button within 30 min of use. I also cleaned out the threads as best I could on the body of the mod...

 

[Kprthevapr]

I think I'm going to order one of those spring if the SS wire I bought doesn't pan out. Shame they don't make one for the Workhorse. I have one of those that I dont use for the same reason. I have that Mizrah box mod, a copper stingray, and an XXIX that are all in regular rotation. But because they are all authentics, I will not bring them on vacation overseas with me. The SMPL is an infinite clone that doesnt seem much use anymore, but is perfect for sitting on a beach on a tropical island. Since I've got a vacation coming up, I'd like to get it sorted out, without buying another clone. I'll have to skulk around Loews and Home Depot to see if they have any copper wire.

Walmart sells 20g copper, brass and SS beading wire. They also have silver plated 20g wire. Should be able to make a decent spring outta that.

 

[duc916]

So...if I end up with a hot button again even after I make up my own spring, then the switch is pretty much botched. I cleaned that thing pretty thoroughly a few days ago, and got the hot button within 30 min of use. I also cleaned out the threads as best I could on the body of the mod...

Pretty much. A conductive spring would just be a workaround to the problem in your switch, and it won't last for long. Even a 20 ga spring of any material isn't meant to conduct 10-20A of current without overheating it.

So you got all those wavy ridges polished and coated with grease?