22nd Century Launches New RED SUN® Extremely Nicotine Website

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nicnik

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22nd Century Launches New RED SUN® Extremely Nicotine Website | Business Wire

...RED SUN smokers are unapologetic about smoking and deserve the best tobacco has to offer.

...RED SUN’s mission: “To give smokers the BOLDEST, most UNAPOLOGETIC and HIGHEST NICOTINE cigarette in America!”

Consumers have embraced RED SUN; in fact, as showcased on our website, nearly 200 adult smokers across the country have become ‘RED SUN extremists’ by tattooing our brand’s logo on their bodies!”

22nd Century Unveils Bold Brand Message for Red Sun Cigarettes

This marketing push behind its extreme nicotine cigarette brand comes as 22nd Century Group is also pursuing a Modified Risk tobacco Product (MRTP) application with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for its Brand A Very Low Nicotine cigarettes. The Clarence-based company recently met with FDA officials to discuss the MRTP application it submitted earlier this month.

I don't know... seems to me, the higher nicotine content would require less smoking, and therefore less intake of toxins, for a similar intake of nicotine. The lower nicotine cigarettes would require more intake of toxins per dose of nicotine.
 

Kent C

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You mean like ultra lights that turned PAD smokers into multiple PAD smokers?

Which when the tobacco companies were forced to abandoned lights and ultralights, they added the nicotine back (but not the tar) and they were accused of 'making cigarettes more addictive' :facepalm: Catcha 22..... the MAOI's and the ammonia was already part of the "cocktail" - before the lights/ultralights and after.
 

skoony

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@zoiDman Thanks. It's interesting to ponder if that these things had been on the
market here for since let's say the 80's if in fact they do or would reduce smoking.
They claim testing has shown that use of their product is associated with reduced use.
They also say," Similarly the prolonged use of VLN cigarettes seems to result in a decrease in dependence.' Well does it or doesn't it. NIH did all the funding as far as I can tell.
Center for the Evaluation of Nicotine in Cigarettes based at the U of Pittsburg and
affiliated with the U of Minnesota did the research. The main goal seems to be to create
a non-addictive cigarette. Their assumption is no dependency less use equals harm
The particular study referenced said they used 850 smokers. This tends to contradict
the contention that light nicotine cigarettes caused users to smoke more.
At any rate it will be interesting to see what the FDA does with this.
Regards
mike
 
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zoiDman

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@zoiDman Thanks. It's interesting to ponder if that these things had been on the
market here for since let's say the 80's if in fact they do or would reduce smoking.
They claim testing has shown that use of their product is associated with reduced use.
They also say," Similarly the prolonged use of VLN cigarettes seems to result in a decrease in dependence.' Well does it or doesn't it. NIH did all the funding as far as I can tell.
Center for the Evaluation of Nicotine in Cigarettes based at the U of Pittsburg and
affiliated with the U of Minnesota did the research. The main goal seems to be to create
a non-addictive cigarette. Their assumption is no dependency less use equals harm
The particular study referenced said they used 850 smokers. This tends to contradict
the contention that light nicotine cigarettes caused users to smoke more.
At any rate it will be interesting to see what the FDA does with this.
Regards
mike

Its just hard to say what effect something like these VLN Cigarettes may or may not have had?
 
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EBates

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@zoiDman Thanks. It's interesting to ponder if that these things had been on the
market here for since let's say the 80's if in fact they do or would reduce smoking.
They claim testing has shown that use of their product is associated with reduced use.
They also say," Similarly the prolonged use of VLN cigarettes seems to result in a decrease in dependence.' Well does it or doesn't it. NIH did all the funding as far as I can tell.
Center for the Evaluation of Nicotine in Cigarettes based at the U of Pittsburg and
affiliated with the U of Minnesota did the research. The main goal seems to be to create
a non-addictive cigarette. Their assumption is no dependency less use equals harm
The particular study referenced said they used 850 smokers. This tends to contradict
the contention that light nicotine cigarettes caused users to smoke more.
At any rate it will be interesting to see what the FDA does with this.
Regards
mike

Well, I'm not sayin' what my guess is. But,
It's a Tobacco product, right?
It's Called A Cigarette, right?
It's subject to MSA and Cigarette TAXES, right?
It contains Killer Nicotine and Carcinogens, right?
Did they mention not hurting the Children due to our Stringent Existing Regulations On Selling To Chillums and SHS?
OMG.........Wait a minute Are These Folks Part Of The Big Tobacco Monoply. Well, if not then we have our answer, right?
Just Sayin'
 

skoony

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Its just hard to say what effect something like these VLN Cigarettes may or may not have had?
You're correct. I thought the FDA got down on BT for their light and ultralight
because it didn't reduce and or increased use. Thier contention being it 's the
smoke not the nicotine. If this is true I'm not sure.
Regards
Mike
 
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zoiDman

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You're correct. I thought the FDA got down on BT for their light and ultralight
because it didn't reduce and or increased use. Thier contention being it 's the
smoke not the nicotine. If this is true I'm not sure.
Regards
Mike

To be Honest with you, I never really followed much of the Light & Ultra Light saga.

I do recall when there was there was Issues with Tobacco Companies putting Hoes/More Holes around the Filter. Thus (in theory) diluting the Smoke coming out of the Filter. But Studies later found that Users merely covered these Holes with their lips. And tended to Inhale More Deeply. Leading to Different forms of Lung Damage.
 

Kent C

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I thought the FDA got down on BT for their light and ultralight because it didn't reduce and or increased use.

The 'media' (and gov't) perception was (and still is) that it was the tobacco companies who created the idea of 'light/ultra-light' cigs - with the results of low tar and nicotine studies done at the FTC with smoking machines with 'light's cigs (ie holes punched in the filters), that one could reduce the tar and hence particles in the lungs that cause disease.

And then when people either smoked more or covered the holes, and tobacco companies were advertising that cigs were safer - which the FTC 'proved' - the gov't came down on them for lying and removed the 'light/ultra-light' tags and the advertising claims.

The actual story goes back further - part of which was, in the 50's, adding filters to unfiltered cigarettes, then the various 'mods' on those - fiber, charcoal, etc. Then in the 60's the FTC did the cigarette machine study and found that by poking holes in the filters that they could reduce the tar (and nicotine). And this is where it gets a bit skewed. There were "recommendations" by the "public health authorities" for the tobacco companies to produce low tar cigarettes. And one could read "recommendations" as 'offering BT a deal they couldn't refuse'. IOW, do what's recommended or we'll enforce it by law. And this is not included in any references by public health and the 3 and 4 letter agencies who are attacking ecigs now - see wiki on 'light cigarettes' and:

http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/brp/tcrb/monographs/13/m13_1.pdf

"Faced with the continuing exposure of large numbers of
smokers to the cancer-causing substances in tobacco smoke, public health
authorities made the valid conclusion that cigarettes that delivered less tar
to smokers would be likely to produce less cancer as well
(U.S. Congress,
1967
), and the effort to produce and market low-tar cigarettes began to
gather momentum.

The recommendations by public health authorities to produce low-tar
cigarettes failed to appreciate two important realities. First, smokers were
powerfully addicted to the nicotine in cigarettes. They actively changed the
way they smoked individual cigarettes (see Chapters 2 and 3)—and some
smokers increased the number of cigarettes they smoked per day (see
Chapter 4)—in order to preserve their moment-to-moment and daily intake
of nicotine. Because cigarettes deliver smoke with a relatively fixed ratio of
tar to nicotine, smokers also preserved their dose of tar when they preserved
their dose of nicotine."

"Second, public health authorities dramatically underestimated the ability
of cigarette manufacturers to engineer cigarettes that would yield very
low tar and nicotine values when machine smoked, but yielded much higher
levels of tar and nicotine when smoked by the smoker."



"With the endorsement of lower tar cigarettes by public health authorities
in the 1960s (U.S. Congress, 1967),
cigarette marketing began to focus
on machine-measured tar deliveries. Tobacco industry research and engineering
efforts recognized that at least two directions were possible with the
development of either a health-image (health reassurance) cigarette or a cigarette
with minimal biological activity (one that would actually produce
less disease) (Green, 1968)."

Again, one has to 'read between the lines' with 'endorsements and recommendations' from public health. But basically, it was 'recommended' by pubic health that the tobacco companies develop light cigarettes and when they did and people smoking them smoked more, then public health came down on the tobacco companies for lying and false advertising and banned the tags of lights and ultralights. Once again - gov't in essence, created the situation with the FTC studies and endorsements and recommendations of lights, then made the tobacco companies out to be the bad guys only looking for profit with no regard for the health of their customers. :facepalm:


Bringing back the connection to ecigs - here we have this:

"The recommendations by public health authorities to produce low-tar
cigarettes failed to appreciate two important realities."

I can imagine, some 'genius' public health expert writing a similar 'after the fact of deeming' passage regarding ecigarettes after say, 5 years or so - where public health authorities failed to appreciate realities - either by the rising number of teen smoking, more cancer deaths from people returning to smoking or not having a safer alternative (with a nod to Carol :- ) but that's what they'll say ) and the enormous black market in ecigarettes, tainted products, smuggling at the borders, drive-bys, etc. etc.

And yeah..... I know some of the history of this from earlier efforts on smoker's rights before ecigs :- )
 
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skoony

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@Kent C Thanks.
I wonder how this washes out with the current studies that seem to indicate
nicotine may not be that addictive and or not the only mitigating factor in the
smoke that caused dependence.I tend to lean in the direction we may be
barking up the wrong tree concerning nicotine. I can't be 100% certain as
I smoked for 38 years straight not counting my dalliances as a teen.
I ask myself though, was it the nicotine or the smoke and or parts of
both? An interesting question would be did the smokers using the lower
tar cigarettes modify their behavior to get the same amount of nicotine
or the same amount of smoke?
:2c:
Regards
mike
 

Kent C

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I ask myself though, was it the nicotine or the smoke and or parts of
both?

I think this depends on the person. Some are able to quit cold turkey. Some (not as many as is suggested by pharmaceuticals) have quit using patches and/or gum. I've said before, that 'we' here are the hard core smokers - many of whom (not me) tried to quit using the above methods and Chantix, etc. where none were ultimately effective. And ecigs have allowed many to either quit or dual use at a rate lower than ever seen. What's the difference? Imo, nicotine and smoke/vapor. If patches and gum produced vapor, they might work better :- ) There's the 'hand to mouth' aspect which may be true for some but the plastic cigarettes that were around a while back, didn't work even though that hand to mouth action was in play.

I've quoted Rand and posted the Sherlock Holmes stories about how Sherlock used the 'smoke' to contemplate cases, etc. and I think that many smokers can relate to that relaxed focus where smoke is a 'companion' but not a distraction (at least for smokers lol). And now with no nic ecigs, it may be more the vapor than the nicotine - again - for some not all.

An interesting question would be did the smokers using the lower tar cigarettes modify their behavior to get the same amount of nicotine
or the same amount of smoke?

In that case, except for perhaps Carltons :- ) - a pack of Camels and a pack of Camel Lights would produce about the same amount of smoke, so the theory is that it was for the nicotine that people smoked more lights than before - although it may be the nicotine and the MAOIs as well.
 
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skoony

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Some are able to quit cold turkey.
I agree with you for the most part. Having known for almost 45 years that dependency rates
in actual smokers was roughly 30% I believe this explains a lot of the quitting cold turkey.
Not all of it but,most of it. Roughly 70% of smokers never were dependent.
Regards
mike
 

Kent C

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I agree with you for the most part. Having known for almost 45 years that dependency rates
in actual smokers was roughly 30% I believe this explains a lot of the quitting cold turkey.
Not all of it but,most of it. Roughly 70% of smokers never were dependent.
Regards
mike

It seems - even with some recent studies (and our own experiences) that nicotine is not as addictive as is generally thought. My own experience (and many others have stated similar things) - I can go much longer without a puff on an ecig than I could with smoking. It's not uncommon for me to go 2-3 hours without vaping, whereas (I was a 3 pad smoker) unless I was sleeping lol, that would never happen smoking.

I haven't gone to no nic because I like the other benefits of nicotine - again a relaxed focus that one can't get with any other drug or substance - others either relax you or focus you but not both, and the other preventive aspects for diseases mentioned before mainly memory related.
 

Jman8

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The 'media' (and gov't) perception was (and still is) that it was the tobacco companies who created the idea of 'light/ultra-light' cigs - with the results of low tar and nicotine studies done at the FTC with smoking machines with 'light's cigs (ie holes punched in the filters), that one could reduce the tar and hence particles in the lungs that cause disease.

And then when people either smoked more or covered the holes, and tobacco companies were advertising that cigs were safer - which the FTC 'proved' - the gov't came down on them for lying and removed the 'light/ultra-light' tags and the advertising claims.

The actual story goes back further - part of which was, in the 50's, adding filters to unfiltered cigarettes, then the various 'mods' on those - fiber, charcoal, etc. Then in the 60's the FTC did the cigarette machine study and found that by poking holes in the filters that they could reduce the tar (and nicotine). And this is where it gets a bit skewed. There were "recommendations" by the "public health authorities" for the tobacco companies to produce low tar cigarettes. And one could read "recommendations" as 'offering BT a deal they couldn't refuse'. IOW, do what's recommended or we'll enforce it by law. And this is not included in any references by public health and the 3 and 4 letter agencies who are attacking ecigs now - see wiki on 'light cigarettes' and:

http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/brp/tcrb/monographs/13/m13_1.pdf

"Faced with the continuing exposure of large numbers of
smokers to the cancer-causing substances in tobacco smoke, public health
authorities made the valid conclusion that cigarettes that delivered less tar
to smokers would be likely to produce less cancer as well
(U.S. Congress,
1967
), and the effort to produce and market low-tar cigarettes began to
gather momentum.

The recommendations by public health authorities to produce low-tar
cigarettes failed to appreciate two important realities. First, smokers were
powerfully addicted to the nicotine in cigarettes. They actively changed the
way they smoked individual cigarettes (see Chapters 2 and 3)—and some
smokers increased the number of cigarettes they smoked per day (see
Chapter 4)—in order to preserve their moment-to-moment and daily intake
of nicotine. Because cigarettes deliver smoke with a relatively fixed ratio of
tar to nicotine, smokers also preserved their dose of tar when they preserved
their dose of nicotine."

"Second, public health authorities dramatically underestimated the ability
of cigarette manufacturers to engineer cigarettes that would yield very
low tar and nicotine values when machine smoked, but yielded much higher
levels of tar and nicotine when smoked by the smoker."



"With the endorsement of lower tar cigarettes by public health authorities
in the 1960s (U.S. Congress, 1967),
cigarette marketing began to focus
on machine-measured tar deliveries. Tobacco industry research and engineering
efforts recognized that at least two directions were possible with the
development of either a health-image (health reassurance) cigarette or a cigarette
with minimal biological activity (one that would actually produce
less disease) (Green, 1968)."

Again, one has to 'read between the lines' with 'endorsements and recommendations' from public health. But basically, it was 'recommended' by pubic health that the tobacco companies develop light cigarettes and when they did and people smoking them smoked more, then public health came down on the tobacco companies for lying and false advertising and banned the tags of lights and ultralights. Once again - gov't in essence, created the situation with the FTC studies and endorsements and recommendations of lights, then made the tobacco companies out to be the bad guys only looking for profit with no regard for the health of their customers. :facepalm:


Bringing back the connection to ecigs - here we have this:

"The recommendations by public health authorities to produce low-tar
cigarettes failed to appreciate two important realities."

I can imagine, some 'genius' public health expert writing a similar 'after the fact of deeming' passage regarding ecigarettes after say, 5 years or so - where public health authorities failed to appreciate realities - either by the rising number of teen smoking, more cancer deaths from people returning to smoking or not having a safer alternative (with a nod to Carol :- ) but that's what they'll say ) and the enormous black market in ecigarettes, tainted products, smuggling at the borders, drive-bys, etc. etc.

And yeah..... I know some of the history of this from earlier efforts on smoker's rights before ecigs :- )


This is post is why I have trouble understanding anyone (especially politically aware vapers) who loudly claims "BT lied." I find it so naive of a claim, I'm convinced the person has either never done research or is a noob to politics of eCigs.
 

mcclintock

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    When I started RYO using filter tubes, the Zig Zag light tubes had the holes in them. I didn't like that at first and then I started preferring them. But once they couldn't call them light they stopped making them. The replacements were just a different color filter.

    The filters with holes were, in FACT, effective at making the result lighter. Not any certain amount, or enough to save you, but it was an ACCURATE and FACTUAL description nevertheless. Most Light flavor tobacco was also lighter colored than full flavor or "red" tobacco which is reddish. Again, FACTUAL descriptions that are no longer allowed. Reality is apparently no defense of free speech when it comes to tobacco.
     
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