read a lot of the pages because i'm going to mixing my own juice soon, sounds like a nic test kit is the next thing I need to pick up, thanks for all the work Dvap
What are you planning on?
Any interest in determining nicotine--by DVAP
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What are you planning on?
Not much developing in this area anymore, I see the kits in the market and they look kind of cumbersome to me.
May be it's time to come up with something better.....
Anybody?
May be it's time to come up with something better.....
Anybody?
I bought one: http://www.eliquidtest.com/Credits.aspx. I don't know what Dvap thinks of it, but the site credits Dvap and Pornbjorg as the two that pioneered the procedure.
I agree the process is solid, Dvap and Pornbjorg did an excellent job. I just think there is room for improvement in developing a KIT.
I am no expert at this, but I think for any more accuracy, or even simplicity, you would need a fully stocked lab. Maybe Dvap will see this and weigh in.
I'm no expert either, I'm just playing with a couple of ideas like:
- Is there a more specific reagent for detecting Nicotine? I understand that the acid is neutralizing the Nic as -OH when its actually a Nitrogen at work.
- How to test dark e-liquids? It's very hard and sometimes impossible to appreciate the color change in dark/colored e-liquids. Are there ways to work around such interference?
Just trying to spark some creativity here, these methods are 3 years old. I hope we can advance a little.
- Is there a more specific reagent for detecting Nicotine? I understand that the acid is neutralizing the Nic as -OH when its actually a Nitrogen at work.
- How to test dark e-liquids? It's very hard and sometimes impossible to appreciate the color change in dark/colored e-liquids. Are there ways to work around such interference?
Just trying to spark some creativity here, these methods are 3 years old. I hope we can advance a little.
Well, I found something that can help with dark e-liquids. We'll have to adapt a technique that's used for determining wine acidity. It involves the use of a pH meter/tester. I guess you'll have to look for a sudden drop in pH after the last of the nicotine has been neutralized bi the acid. Same point where the bromothymol blue changes to yellow.
And you where right, lab equipment required here (pH tester), I think you can get an "el cheapo" pocket style one for under $20.
I may get one to play with.
And you where right, lab equipment required here (pH tester), I think you can get an "el cheapo" pocket style one for under $20.
I may get one to play with.
Yep... a pH meter would be the thing for dark liquids. As a matter of fact, with a pH meter, the indicator wouldn't even be needed. You're looking for the point where a single drop of acid results in a drastic pH drop.
A more specific wet test for nicotine? There's usually a way to do whatever. Am I going to put any effort into it, nope.
A more specific wet test for nicotine? There's usually a way to do whatever. Am I going to put any effort into it, nope.
Lol, hey DVap, what are you vaping? You sound cranky. Appreciate your validation of my suggestion for a pH meter.
I checked on eBay! A cheap Chinese pH meter for as low as $10-15. Something a tad better like a Hanna pH Checker around $30.
Not too bad.
I checked on eBay! A cheap Chinese pH meter for as low as $10-15. Something a tad better like a Hanna pH Checker around $30.
Not too bad.
Naw.. not cranky. Just not into taking the testing thing any further.
With the cheap meters, accuracy isn't so great, but the important thing is finding the endpoint where the pH drops drastically, so they're probably OK to use for this.
With the cheap meters, accuracy isn't so great, but the important thing is finding the endpoint where the pH drops drastically, so they're probably OK to use for this.
I get it.
It happens to me all the time, get tired of the same stuff. Need a new challenge to keep me interested.
I'm checking your posts on long term storage of eliquids. Interesting, I'll keep reading.
Anyway, I appreciate your expertise and your comments.
It happens to me all the time, get tired of the same stuff. Need a new challenge to keep me interested.
I'm checking your posts on long term storage of eliquids. Interesting, I'll keep reading.
Anyway, I appreciate your expertise and your comments.
Finally got my Ph meter from eBay. For around $11including shipping.
Mi first test was a fail. I could not determine the endpoint acurately enough, the meter calibration is off. (distilled water reads around 5 and the ejuice solution around 8) so I'll calibrate and test again.
But not today. Lol.
I'll keep you posted
I'll keep you posted
Mi first test was a fail. I could not determine the endpoint acurately enough, the meter calibration is off. (distilled water reads around 5 and the ejuice solution around 8) so I'll calibrate and test again.
But not today. Lol.
I'll keep you posted
I'll keep you posted
Got some very promising results.
Charting my data in Excel right now.
Ended up being harder than I expected. Plus lots of personal stuff going on at the moment.
Sorry it took so long but I think the wait was worth it because it works pretty good.
I took some pictures of the process but I can't upload them to the forum (guess I'm too new). I'll upload them to my hosting and link the URL for you to see.
Keep watching............
Charting my data in Excel right now.
Ended up being harder than I expected. Plus lots of personal stuff going on at the moment.
Sorry it took so long but I think the wait was worth it because it works pretty good.
I took some pictures of the process but I can't upload them to the forum (guess I'm too new). I'll upload them to my hosting and link the URL for you to see.
Keep watching............
Ok not going to read all the OLD posts "BUT" I have a professional pH meter I use to check soil samples (I'm in lawn care). I checked it against a lab and it is right on the money (+/- .2%). So someone please explain what I am looking for pH wise. Thanks...
Vape On
Vape On
Recap....
I'm looking for an alternative way to find the Nic concentration in dark colored eliquids where a color pH indicator is not suitable.
So I got a $10 pH meter from eBay and adapted a titration method that I found online to measure acidity in red wines.
The materials used:
-1ml of 36mg/ml nic concentrate (yes 36 is concentrated for me lol)
-10ml distilled water (Wally World)
-.12N sulfuric acid in dropper bottle.
-Trusty $10 pH meter (eBay)
-50ml Glass beaker (a shoot glass will do)
Important things to keep in mind:
-Measure how many drops per ml your dropper outputs. Mine is 27 Drops/ml. your's may/will be different.
-Estimate your Titrant usage, do only the last few (5-10) drops one by one (saves time).
-Look for the big pH drop and let the pH meter stabilize. (Time consuming, I know).
-Make sure that you cover the pH meter probe in liquid, depending on your model you may need to play with the size of your sample or your container in order to get a good contact with the sensor.
-Be patient, if you overshoot, you'll have to do it again.
If your results are way off, check your setup and repeat.
As I don't have any dark e liquids, I tested my clear concentrate. It should work the same.
OK. Here's my setup
Excel data
Well if you can see the data there is clearly a big drop in pH in drop 48 (the end point of the titration) the table is self explanatory.
My calculated value was 34.67mg on a 36mg nic, thats pretty darn close. I repeated the process 5 times with similar results, between 47 and 49 drops.
There you go... post your comments
I'm looking for an alternative way to find the Nic concentration in dark colored eliquids where a color pH indicator is not suitable.
So I got a $10 pH meter from eBay and adapted a titration method that I found online to measure acidity in red wines.
The materials used:
-1ml of 36mg/ml nic concentrate (yes 36 is concentrated for me lol)
-10ml distilled water (Wally World)
-.12N sulfuric acid in dropper bottle.
-Trusty $10 pH meter (eBay)
-50ml Glass beaker (a shoot glass will do)
Important things to keep in mind:
-Measure how many drops per ml your dropper outputs. Mine is 27 Drops/ml. your's may/will be different.
-Estimate your Titrant usage, do only the last few (5-10) drops one by one (saves time).
-Look for the big pH drop and let the pH meter stabilize. (Time consuming, I know).
-Make sure that you cover the pH meter probe in liquid, depending on your model you may need to play with the size of your sample or your container in order to get a good contact with the sensor.
-Be patient, if you overshoot, you'll have to do it again.
If your results are way off, check your setup and repeat.
As I don't have any dark e liquids, I tested my clear concentrate. It should work the same.
OK. Here's my setup
Excel data
Well if you can see the data there is clearly a big drop in pH in drop 48 (the end point of the titration) the table is self explanatory.
My calculated value was 34.67mg on a 36mg nic, thats pretty darn close. I repeated the process 5 times with similar results, between 47 and 49 drops.
There you go... post your comments
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This looks pretty good to me! Basically if you plot the pH vs total volume of titrant added, you will get a pH curve, which is what I use to titrate nic liquids. Where the pH drops the most is very close to the inflection point of the curve, which is really where the equivalence point is. I like this method, however, I have found some flavors will affect the pH, especially if they are very strong and/or acidic. I tested some really highly flavored fruity juices, and the the shape of the curve I got told me the flavors were neutralizing some of the nicotine, so I was getting for a measured value less that what I should have. This page has a nice curve so you can see what a weak base strong acid curve is like (about a 1/3 of the way down):
pH curves (titration curves)
With a clean nic solution, one sees all features of the curve quite clearly, but if some of the nic is already neutralized by a flavoring, the curve will look like it starts part of the way in. No initial downward curve. So I do not test flavored liquids anymore, only unflavored.
Also, realize that your acid conc has two significant figures, so you won't be able to get past-the-decimal nic values with it unless the nic level is less than 10 mg/mL.
But nice use of chemistry!!
pH curves (titration curves)
With a clean nic solution, one sees all features of the curve quite clearly, but if some of the nic is already neutralized by a flavoring, the curve will look like it starts part of the way in. No initial downward curve. So I do not test flavored liquids anymore, only unflavored.
Also, realize that your acid conc has two significant figures, so you won't be able to get past-the-decimal nic values with it unless the nic level is less than 10 mg/mL.
But nice use of chemistry!!
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