Beware of the Quit Smoking Purists

[TomCatt]

...

That forum is part of a quit smoking website that sells pharmaceutical quit smoking products. Notice it's the first quit smoking forum that pops up on Google. I wonder how much money is thrown into that forum from Big Pharma. It explains why the site seems slanted - it's not really a quit smoking forum, it's a Big Pharma forum in the disguise of a quit smoking forum.

I hadn't realized this!

Excellent posts over there, John! And, while I could tell he was starting to get under your skin, you kept to the facts and didn't resort to 'greenies' (think goober, that's what I was calling him by the end) incredibly low level!

 

[Levitas]

Ack! I'm done with that nonsense. No point in continuing - I'm happy with where I am at and I don't need acceptance from the ignorant.

 

[bwood12043]

So I have to ask?

Ron White.
You can't cure stupid!

Pig

Another Ron White quote, "I had the right to remain silent, I just did NOT have the ability !"

And so I registered and posted about my experiences, probably to no avail, but being the ever optimistic fool that I am, I just had to give it try and see if it might reach just one reasonable person. Of course, that's assuming that there is one reasonable one among them !

 

[Cage024]

LMAO that guy greenlover is amish, I bet he can't even find an outlet to charge an ecig battery anyway. Thats one reason he's prlly against it, its technology that is not an option for amish ppl. Unless they make a horse powered ecig hahaha. I guess he only lives near the amish, hes posting on a forum with a computer. Nic can technically constrict bloodvessels and could be a possible cause a heartattack, if ur really clogged up.

Umm, he's amish but he's using a computer to post on a forum. He could be charging a battery right now on that computer

 

[John Phoenix]

First, I don't even know why you would go on there and basically break the rules of what we are about.. Promoting E-Cigs as a cessation product... #2 they are right.. You are still a slave to nicotine... It's not harmless.. Your assertion that heart attacks can't be caused by e-cigs is unproven and most likely not true. Nicotine does damage the heart.. That is a proven fact (just as caffeine does)...

If you want to vape for life, feel free.. But going onto a site filled with people, that frankly, I envy (due to the fact they've done what I couldn't do), and try to argue with them is ludacris..

BTW.. I love my e-cig... But 2 sayings ring in my head right now...

If it's too good to be true.................. It probably is...

and..

You can't have your cake and eat it too..

1, I'm not breaking any rules. If I were a manufacturer or vendor I could not make claims that the e-cig is a quit smoking product. As an individual, I can certainly say that it helped me stop smoking and that using it over smoking tobacco can help save your life.

2. I never claimed I was not addicted to nicotine. I did claim that nicotine is not as bad as they make it out to be and I can point you to the studies that show this. You see these people seem to have the nicotine thing stuck in their heads.. 'Gotta quit cigarettes and stop using that dirty addictive nicotine' - yet they fail to realize it's not the nicotine that causes 438,000 people to die each year of smoking related illness. Nicotine can be harmful by itself, yes, so can drinking lots of water. So can drinking lots of coffee. What can happen and what Is happening are two different things. Nicotine is not causing the deaths, the poisons in the burnt tobacco are. This is the point I wanted to make clear to them so they will understand that comparatively, using an e-cig is no worse than the NRT products and can assist in getting you off the dangerous stuff to save your life.

I disagree. Nicotine in the small doses we take in is not likely to cause heart attacks. In fact, research has shown that nicotine can be good for your heart.
Is Nicotine Good For The Heart?
Nicotine Facts | Nicotine is Good!

If you look at the assertions that nicotine causes heart disease you will find this is always associated with smoking tobacco and all the bad things that go with that smoke. They do not take into account nicotine by itself in the body. Yes, nicotine is a vascular constrictor but this by itself has not been shown to cause the kind of damage that will stop the heart. Other studies have looked at nicotine by itself in the body and have determined that nicotine by itself is unlikely to cause heart problems.
The Truth About Ecigs

As stated, I didn't go there for the purpose of arguing with them. I went to tell my story in the hopes that some of the information I shared may help save a life.

 

[ls1chris]

wow i just seen that John where they sell quit smoking products.And what is funny to me is they have a ecig listed for sale on that page.Looks similar to a 510 or disposable Ecig but comes with no nicotine although they do sell cartridges that has different level of nicotine in them to gradually decrease your intake up to 90 percent.


Just seems odd to me that they blast him so hard for using a ecig yet you can purchase one on that site.John seems to be a very well educated person who has kept his cool and i salute him for that as i could not.And i do find myself agreeing with John on a lot of his Statements.So i say let's just keep doing what we do and enjoy vaping

 

[phonedude]

I think there is a good chance you did help. It wouldn't surprise me if many members of that forum don't find, down the road, that quitting was just too difficult for them. But being determined to quit smoking they will not want to return to cigarettes. And you have planted the seed, letting them know there is a better alternative.

Your articles are well written and informative. They have their support group .. thank god we have ours. Don't be surprised to see some of them around these parts some day.

I say well done.

 

[ls1chris]

^Well said Fonedude.

 

[John Phoenix]

Ack! I'm done with that nonsense. No point in continuing - I'm happy with where I am at and I don't need acceptance from the ignorant.

I agree. I will not post again in that thread in response to those types of people. I will remain on the site to help others with general quit smoking issues and answer and questions that come up concerning e-cigs. If I can counter some lies and damage done, it may help save a life.

 

[SonnyCrack]

John, with all due respect, you lose so many points when you equate nicotine to water.. Or vaping to inhaling air like you did in the other post..

There is absolutly no evidence that vaping is harmless.. People didn't start dying from cigarettes until 30-40 years later.. Vaping is less than 10 years old.. So just keep that in mind..

Also it's worth pointing out that when the deaths do start coming in.... They will all be written off by the vaping community as being caused by previous smoke use no matter what the facts are..

Continue to vape, but everybody should know its at our own risks.. But to pitch somebody that this is harmless is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

[John Phoenix]

John, with all due respect, you lose so many points when you equate nicotine to water.. Or vaping to inhaling air like you did in the other post..

There is absolutly no evidence that vaping is harmless.. People didn't start dying from cigarettes until 30-40 years later.. Vaping is less than 10 years old.. So just keep that in mind..

And again, I never said vaping was harmless. ( Well, yeah I did say that but if you don't take it out of context you will see that I meant it in a general comparative way) I spoke about harm reduction. We do know what is in e-cigs and we do have many studies on the effects of those chemicals in the body. The only ones that have not been studied are the long term use of vegetable glycerin and the FDA approved flavorings in the body through inhalation. Everything else we have studies on that point to no or very little harm. Some of these studies are for things like propylene glycol which have been used in medical inhalers for over 50 years. We do have a good sense from the available studies on whether vaping is likely to cause the kind of harm that smoking does.

 

[Levitas]

John, with all due respect, you lose so many points when you equate nicotine to water.. Or vaping to inhaling air like you did in the other post..

There is absolutly no evidence that vaping is harmless.. People didn't start dying from cigarettes until 30-40 years later.. Vaping is less than 10 years old.. So just keep that in mind..

Also it's worth pointing out that when the deaths do start coming in.... They will all be written off by the vaping community as being caused by previous smoke use no matter what the facts are..

Continue to vape, but everybody should know its at our own risks.. But to pitch somebody that this is harmless is dangerous and irresponsible.

There is actually a good deal of evidence that vaping is less harmful than cigarette smoking, which is what I think John was saying.

People have been dying from smoking tobacco for hundreds maybe even thousands of years...

You seem to be pretty sure that people will in fact die from vaping. Do you have evidence to support this?

 

[SonnyCrack]

I'm not arguing that vaping is LESS harmful. The argument he was presenting is that it was not harmful.. ie: him equating vaping to inhaling air.

As far as deaths.. They will happen, they happen with everything on earth... I would venture to say the first tragic deaths would be dripping and driving or a child dying from poisoning.

As far as health deaths, I'd guess throat cancer just because we alll know nicotine is a skin irratant (think throat hit).. Doing that day after day, year after year will probably cause some adverse effects.

 

[SonnyCrack]

And again, I never said vaping was harmless. ( Well, yeah I did say that but if you don't take it out of context you will see that I meant it in a general comparative way) I spoke about harm reduction.

I read the entire thread, and you didn't approach it as harm reduction.. You approached it as a look how I quit smoking thread..

Harm reduction yes... All day.. I preach that.. If you smoke cigarettes, you should switch.. But I certainly wouldn't say any of us have quit..

 

[John Phoenix]

I'm not arguing that vaping is LESS harmful. The argument he was presenting is that it was not harmful.. ie: him equating vaping to inhaling air.

Sure I mentioned Air, but you are taking what I said about it out of context.

greenlover, "Do you NOT inhale something-VAPOR or whatever into your lungs or not?????? to me thats smoking."

John Phoenix, " By your criteria you are still a smoker too because you inhale a vapor into your lungs every day. It's called Air."

~~~~~~~

Harm reduction yes... All day.. I preach that.. If you smoke cigarettes, you should switch.. But I certainly wouldn't say any of us have quit..

I absolutely did quit.

I quit putting 4 to 6000 chemicals found in tobacco, 600 added chemicals, and 69 cancer causing agents into my body.

How is not putting those things into your body not quitting them?

 

[SonnyCrack]

Sure I mentioned Air, but you are taking what I said about it out of context.

greenlover, "Do you NOT inhale something-VAPOR or whatever into your lungs or not?????? to me thats smoking."

John Phoenix, " By your criteria you are still a smoker too because you inhale a vapor into your lungs every day. It's called Air."

You only proved my point by posting that. Non sequitur argument.

 

[John Phoenix]

You only proved my point by posting that. Non sequitur argument.

Er.. yeah.. I proved that you took that out of context.

Non sequitur argument? Your reading comprehension is failing you. You assert that the reason I was comparing air to vapor is that vapor is not harmful, " The argument he was presenting is that it was not harmful.. ie: him equating vaping to inhaling air."

I was doing absolutely no such thing. It's all right there for you the reason I made these statements in black and white.

I was not comparing air to vapor to say that one was more or less harmful than the other. I was giving him an example of how silly his argument was by turning it back on him.

 

[SonnyCrack]

You also said it'd be like a recovering alcoholic drinking water and saying he was still drinking..

Please John.. You look foolish.. As a recovering alcoholic, I found that extremely offensive as well.

 

[John Phoenix]

You also said it'd be like a recovering alcoholic drinking water and saying he was still drinking..

Please John.. You look foolish.. As a recovering alcoholic, I found that extremely offensive as well.

As an ex drinker myself I find my statements about this right on point. Don't take it out of context. This too was an example of how his argument was silly. It has nothing to do really with alcoholics just like the above had nothing to do with harm in air or vapor.

Tell me.. Exactly in what way does this offend you. Give me details because I am clearly not seeing how I was offensive to ex drinkers in any way.

Better yet, since you seem so easily offended by so little, I suggest you stop reading my threads. I wish not to offend you further and it seems that you not reading my threads would be the best way to accomplish this.

 

[SonnyCrack]

Vaping is DIRECTLY inhaling various chemicals in which NO long term study has shown it safe. The PG study was about it being in low concentrations in air.. Thats far different then directly inhaling it.. Not to mention the nicotine..

So yes, to equate vaping to smoking as water is to alcohol, is entirely offensive to me..

Wake up from your fairly land of this is a healthy lifestyle choice.. It is great harm reduction of course. However, ONCE again, it is at everyones own risk.