Busted at Wal-Mart! lol

[wv2win]

I have to agree with sherid and Alanae on this issue. The only way prejuidice and bigotry were ever stopped was by the few leading the many to change their perceptions. And that did not happen by standing outside cowering in the corner and hoping no one noticed or got offended. The fact is that vaping does not hurt other people, so why act like it does? If you do that, you are just perpetrating their uninformed perception and/or prejuidice. I AM NOT advocating vaping in someone's face to irritate them. I am advocating vaping in the same manner that you would drink a beer around someone you don't know such as in a resturant or at a game. Some people are against consumering alcohol but that does not give them the right to stop me from having a beer, even in their presence unless it is in their home or someplace they own.

I have had people who are not smokers stop me in the mall and ask about vaping for a friend or loved one and I give them information and they are very pleased I explained the advantages of vaping. Smokers are not the issue here. They will gravitate to vaping over time. It is the non smokers whose perceptions need to be changed. You can not change those perceptions by being discrete or by yelling at them. You have to be OPENLY intelligent about it by taking a stance that this is a good device that is not harmful to others and is a good alternative to analogs.

50 years ago our country was a totally separated country only due to perceptions. That did not change by hoping and hiding. If someone's perception is wrong, then it will only change by openly demonstrating in a positive mannner why their perception is wrong.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Ok listen,
If I mis-quote you, sorry. If I dont say who said it, sorry. You all know who you are with who said what. Sooo........
Good point, yes some people started vaping to get around the smoking bans, and now they have quit smoking. This is not an excuse to continue flaunting your new found NRT product. Period.
I told you to not get technical on me with regards to my non-alcoholic beer analogy, and then you did. I know it has alcohol ( about 1/2 of a %). It was an analogy. So I'll take it to the next level... would you pour water into a beer can and drink it in a restricted area? Maybe I like beer cans, maybe they make my water taste better to me. Theres my point, maybe you'll understand it better.
As Lu said, and I have said, now is not the time FLAUNT your e-cig. Vaping outside, or not vaping in no-smoking areas, is not hiding! Its respecting the laws already in place. VAPING LOOKS LIKE SMOKING.
Someone had said, most of the smokers they know already know about e-cigs and would make fun of them (or something) for smoking in the designated areas. Well I dont know where you live, but not one smoker I talked to has even heard the term "e-cig"... and guess where I was when I educated them about the benefits of vaping? Yeah... standing in the smoking area.
As Lu said, vaping in non-smoking areas gives the anti's and others the preception of "nanee na nana, look what I can do!" So everyones point is, thats not the way to gain public approval. It turns people the other way. Think about the last time (no offense to any jehova's or christians) a jehova witness showed up on your door step at dinner time? Or a street preacher told you of the horror that awaits you if you dont submit to christ? Did either one turn into a god fearing christian?? I dont know about you, but thats why Im an Athiest!!!! see my point? The more something you dont like/agree with is pushed on you, it has the opposite effect the pusher desires. The more people trying to show that they can vape anywhere they want, smoking bans be damned, the more we will be looked upon negativley. Someone said, hey, I dont care, negative publicity is still publicity. No my friend, negative publicity is negative publicity. We are all only saying to respect the laws in place, educate in the right place and at the right time. Flaunting you e-cig in a no-smoking area is neither. There, Im done.... you may continue...
My best,
-VP

 

[sherid]

Smokers stood by and allowed themselves to be cast as mass murderers with absolutely no evidence that shs had ever killed anyone. They did not speak up until the deed was done. So, you don't choose to smoke any longer. Good. However, now you have entered the vaping culture with the same mindset that cast you as a murderer when you smoked cigarettes. The health fascists know that you will accept whatever they say without rebelling because that is what smokers have always done. Like it or not, you still have the mindset of a smoker even if you no longer use tobacco. If you want to hide in the shadows and not speak up against unreasonable controls over what you do, then go for it. Others have awakened and are not willing to be controlled. Deal with it. As for vaping in WalMart or in a theater or in church, etc; I think that is rather silly and inappropriate. However, it is not my call to judge what other vapers do. Meanwhile, I will continue to exercise my freedom to do what I think is right and rebel when/where it is appropriate. Personally, I will never hide in corners vaping any more than I hide in the shadows to smoke. If you don't get your voice out there, you will be doomed to a life of hiding. Speak up, or go in the shadows.

 

[ZambucaLu]

The fact is that vaping does not hurt other people, so why act like it does? If you do that, you are just perpetrating their uninformed perception and/or prejuidice. I AM NOT advocating vaping in someone's face to irritate them. I am advocating vaping in the same manner that you would drink a beer around someone you don't know such as in a resturant or at a game. Some people are against consumering alcohol but that does not give them the right to stop me from having a beer, even in their presence unless it is in their home or someplace they own.

You have to be OPENLY intelligent about it by taking a stance that this is a good device that is not harmful to others and is a good alternative to analogs.

The problem is...there's no proof of that, win. That's the first thing my daughter asked me....would it be safe around my grandson? How could I say yes? Do I have conclusive tests to point her to? We are all doing this with the knowledge that we really don't know the (long term) effects of it...we presume....or better yet, hope....they are safe....for both us and those around us.

You can tell someone what is in analogs that isn't in ecigs....that's a fact (and that's only going by what the manufacturers are telling us). For someone to say the "second hand vapor" is not harmful to others....well, you better have something more than a website saying that for it to be a proven fact.

If I am around an adult and they find it acceptable for me to vape around them, then I will. But I won't tell them "Oh yes, it's safe for you to breathe this in" because there is no way I have any definitive proof of that.

So where's the tests that can confirm what you are stating? Please point me to them because I would love nothing better than to forward that on to my daughter because then I wouldn't be so paranoid smoking around my grandson if I knew it was safe for him (btw....she went to med school...became a chiropractor and now teaches various biology and health courses at a local college). But if you can convince her, you've got me sold too!

Oh, and for anyone interested....you might want to check out this thread....beginning with the very first post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cussion/3992-esmoking-myths-12.html#post63004

Lu

 

[LuckyCharm]

My main reason for starting was to get around smoking bans. It's getting so bad that in some towns, smoking is prohibited everywhere, including private homes, cars, etc.

Most people I've run into have at least heard of PV's. They've been on the news and in the paper. So if I pull out my NJOY while stuck in a long line at the hardware store and take a puff or two, nobody says anything. I did it last night, while talking to two ladies who were buying a screen door. They didn't blink an eye. One time I was at Walgreen's, waiting for a clerk to come unlock a display for me. While I waited, I took a puff, just as the clerk was rounding the corner. Seeing the vapor come out of my mouth, she kind of gasped, then looked confused as she glanced from my mouth to my PV and back. I paid her no mind and proceeded to examine the electric toothbrushes in the display. All the while, she's checking out this gadget in my hand, that obviously was NOT emitting anything, like a lit cigarette would have.

At the checkout, I got behind another customer who was taking a long time, so I took another hit. The customer pointed and said, "Oh, is that one of those new..." I grinned and said yes, then proceeded to explain it to both checkout girls and him. They all agreed that it was pretty cool...

My approach is to treat them casually, like breasts -- don't flaunt them, but don't act ashamed of them, either. Just a couple days after I got my first PV, I was dining at a restaurant, and at the point after the meal when I would normally have stepped out for a smoke, I pulled out my PV and casually took a couple puffs. Nobody said anything, not even the waitress as she stood right next to me taking an order from another diner. The more we can convey, and cultivate, a "no big deal" attitude among those around us, the more successful we'll be.

Just my $.02!

~~Cheryl

 

[wv2win]

Lu, there are some tests, notablely the one from New Zealand that concluded that there is nothing emited from PV's that is harmful. I am all for testing and peer review. But until that happens, I will believe and state with confidence to others the following: my doctor, dentist and pharmicist all stated that this device is much safer than analogs. I will also state with confidence that the ingrediates in PV liquid have all been tested individually and have shown to not have harmful effects on people. I will also state that common sense and intelligence supports that allowing people to continue to use a device that at a minimum is much better for them than analogs makes sense.

This might also help a little considering he is a Harvard MD. (from the Arizona Republic newspaper)

"Some consumers and professionals maintain the e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to traditional tobacco. In a statement last month, Dr. Jonathan Winickoff of Harvard Medical School called the electonic cigarettes "a thousand times safer than cigarettes."

 

[sherid]

I would not smoke around babies or in family restaurants. I also would not vape in those situations. However, in places like bars where smoking is still a part of the culture, I would do so in a heartbeat. If the bar owner says no, I will not vape, but I will also not return to that place. I will not go outside to smoke when I am spending money in such a place, and I will not go outside to vape in such a place. Going outside to smoke in a bar where a good percentage of the customers and staff smoke is a concerted effort to make smokers and now vapers look pathetic. I will never buy into that plan. I will simply not go to places that are unreasonable. I have little discetionary money to entertain myself. I am not going to spend it in places that force those rules upon their customers. I live in a smoking ban state, yet two years after the ban's passage, many places simply defy the law. I support them in their efforts to defy the law and make a statement against the bans. I do the same where vaping is concerned.

 

[Zilthai]

I actually picked up my Super Mini to quit smoking. Granted, I'll probably keep using it after I get down to 0mg. But, because I'm using it to step down and finally quit I've been doing my best to keep at the same pace or less with my e-cig as I did with my analogs. I tend to only use mine in places and situations where smoking is acceptable. Maybe it's because of my location, but virtually NO ONE where I live knows what an E-cig is. For me, using my e-cig in no-smoking areas is not just rude, it's counter-productive.

 

[ZambucaLu]

My main reason for starting was to get around smoking bans. It's getting so bad that in some towns, smoking is prohibited everywhere, including private homes, cars, etc.

Most people I've run into have at least heard of PV's. They've been on the news and in the paper. So if I pull out my NJOY while stuck in a long line at the hardware store and take a puff or two, nobody says anything. I did it last night, while talking to two ladies who were buying a screen door. They didn't blink an eye. One time I was at Walgreen's, waiting for a clerk to come unlock a display for me. While I waited, I took a puff, just as the clerk was rounding the corner. Seeing the vapor come out of my mouth, she kind of gasped, then looked confused as she glanced from my mouth to my PV and back. I paid her no mind and proceeded to examine the electric toothbrushes in the display. All the while, she's checking out this gadget in my hand, that obviously was NOT emitting anything, like a lit cigarette would have.

At the checkout, I got behind another customer who was taking a long time, so I took another hit. The customer pointed and said, "Oh, is that one of those new..." I grinned and said yes, then proceeded to explain it to both checkout girls and him. They all agreed that it was pretty cool...

My approach is to treat them casually, like breasts -- don't flaunt them, but don't act ashamed of them, either. Just a couple days after I got my first PV, I was dining at a restaurant, and at the point after the meal when I would normally have stepped out for a smoke, I pulled out my PV and casually took a couple puffs. Nobody said anything, not even the waitress as she stood right next to me taking an order from another diner. The more we can convey, and cultivate, a "no big deal" attitude among those around us, the more successful we'll be.

Just my $.02!

~~Cheryl

And if that waitress got the manager who said "Sorry, miss, but we can't allow that in here" (as has happened to others)....then what?

It is not the people who agree with us that are the problem...it's the antis who are. I have vaped in both restaurants and walmart....places where I'm going to be in there for a couple of hours. But I did so discreetly. This being the case, I have never been told to "put it out" or banished to the smokers section. I think I have pretty much figured out where I can openly vape with no problem, and where I can't.

But hey...really, I don't care who wants to take the chance at a public establishment and be told its not allowed, or take it outside, or whatever. All I know is I can pretty much guarantee that's not going to happen to me. So vape where you will....that's up to you. And while you're standing out in the cold with the other smokers after you've been kicked out, I'll be quietly sitting at my nice warm table, enjoying my coffee, drink, dinner, whatever while happily vaping away

Lu

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

I got into this so I could continue to enjoy smoking while drinking beer, as I have done for the last thirty years.

If a bar owner asks me to stop vaping, I leave and take my money elsewhere.

I didn't really intend to cause outrage coronaries in passing pinheads, but I'm hardly sorry for it. Something else woulda got 'em, anyway. Dog crap in the park, maybe.

I've lost count of the amount of fools who felt entitled to confront me in public. I have taken vast amusement in pointing out that the world is as it is, not how they want it to be.

I refuse to be fearful. Does anybody really think hiding in corners will persuade rabid antis to overlook this activity?

Emp

 

[sherid]

I got into this so I could continue to enjoy smoking while drinking beer, as I have done for the last thirty years.

If a bar owner asks me to stop vaping, I leave and take my money elsewhere.

I didn't really intend to cause outrage coronaries in passing pinheads, but I'm hardly sorry for it. Something else woulda got 'em, anyway. Dog crap in the park, maybe.

I've lost count of the amount of fools who felt entitled to confront me in public. I have taken vast amusement in pointing out that the world is as it is, not how they want it to be.

I refuse to be fearful. Does anybody really think hiding in corners will persuade rabid antis to overlook this activity?

Emp

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[ChainSmkr]

I also made up business card "like" little hand outs that has the forum address, electronic cigarette magazine address and the addresses of 4 reliable suppliers because I get so many people who want to know more...

That's a really good idea. I've had several occasions where I wish I had something like that to share with the inquisitive. (I don't always have time for the lengthy conversations )

 

[dedmonwakin]

Interesting discussion. I myself, chose vaping for a cheaper and less toxic option, (compared to the carcinogens in analogs.)

I have to ask, those with children, "Would you vape next to your child or infant?" (This question does not apply to those who smoke/smoked analogs next to their children or with their children...you opinion just doesn't count.)

I certainly will not and don't. I absolutely don't care that it's vapor and supposedly carries less toxins in it's emissions. Vapor is still smoke by definition, no matter how much we try to separate it by the change in terminology. The vapor still caries poison, indeed.

Now, I'm all for E-cigs gaining as much positive exposure as possible. I believe the more we have on the E-cig bandwagon, the more likely the FDA will have to run with it, rather than try to ban a product that is too wide spread to control. They can of course ban the liquid, but they have no jurisdiction on banning the device if sold as a novelty item. So, millions would have to be spent to determine if the vape that you are smoking has nicotine content, which would be difficult to do if you also smoke/carry analogs and carry alleged, "contaminated DIY e-liquid."

But this is just speculation and besides the point. Vaping in area's where smokers are not permitted, (due to the effects of second hand smoke) is something I myself, do not condone, at this time.

The whole reason for the second hand smoke scare was because of the 4000 carcinogens and 43 known, of which nicotine is one of the 43 known labeled as one of the most addictive drugs, and known as a pesticide, and non-medical poison. The effects of nicotine has been determined, pretty severe in terms of birth defects, personal side effects, and so on.

Therefore, this is all anti smokers have to say to bring this house of cards down.
Seems there are two sides to this fight. One being a Vapors right to vape where we like and the other being, the right to possess and use the E-cig.

Which is most important? It appears pretty obvious to me, so let's get pass the obvious answer first. Then fight for the latter.

 

[ozrick]

I'm afraid I agree with the 'don't look for confrontation' argument.

I would never have smoked in a supermarket, so I wouldn't vape in one. If we go into a pub / bar, we first show it to the management and ask them if they've got any objection / policy on it. A few have said 'go ahead' (in which case we have) a few more have said 'don't know much about them, but they seem to be OK' (in which case we have carried on discretely and offered to send them more information) and in one case, we were told 'no' (so we didn't).

I actually agree with this statement. I too am a bit brazen about vaping in public but I don't do it where I wouldn't smoke either. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There is a perception we are trying to break down- where you see smoke you don't always have fire. It is important to educate people about PV's, that is the way we will ease people's tension about it. In bars I get a bit more brazen but attempt to let the bartenders know what is going on first, so they don't freak out. Some may say no, but most say yes and have a ton of questions about them too.

I'm a huge fan of educating people, if I can. We are actually having a "vaping" party at our place so people can look at them up close and ask all the questions they want. The next time that walmart employee see's someone vaping, they very well may tell them to stop doing it now.

 

[wv2win]

If nicotine was considered a carcinogenetic substance it would not be in gum, mints and patches!!!!!! And you can get all of these OVER THE COUNTER!!!!!

Check out this new report from Fox News. I think the Doctor from UCLA knows more than we do.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/13681-nice-fox-news-clip.html#post209288

 

[dedmonwakin]

If nicotine was considered a carcinogenetic substance it would not be in gum, mints and patches!!!!!! And you can get all of these OVER THE COUNTER!!!!!

What exactly does that prove? You can still buy cigarettes, with 4000 Carcinogens.
Also, I'm all for good publicity, especially from doctors....but unfortunately, their opinions don't weigh as much as those in the U.S. National Board of Health. So, maybe FDA will hear the voices of random MD's on the news, but I'm gonna put my money on those on the Board of Health.

 

[Oldnamenomore]

What exactly does that prove? You can still buy cigarettes, with 4000 Carcinogens.
Also, I'm all for good publicity, especially from doctors....but unfortunately, their opinions don't weigh as much as those in the U.S. National Board of Health. So, maybe FDA will hear the voices of random MD's on the news, but I'm gonna put my money on those on the Board of Health.

60ish carcinogens 4000 chemicals.

edit: Also big government care less about their jobs(helping people) and more about their budgets. BP and BT and lining peoples pockets to say no to e-cigs. I think studies need to be done and they need to be available like they are now(OTC) maybe better regulated but not taxed to **** like cigs.

 

[dedmonwakin]

60ish carcinogens 4000 chemicals

Thank you for the correction.

 

[wv2win]

What exactly does that prove? You can still buy cigarettes, with 4000 Carcinogens.
Also, I'm all for good publicity, especially from doctors....but unfortunately, their opinions don't weigh as much as those in the U.S. National Board of Health. So, maybe FDA will hear the voices of random MD's on the news, but I'm gonna put my money on those on the Board of Health.

The Board of Health fully approves nicotine patches, gum and mints. So how can nicotine liquid that becomes water vapor be suspect? This doesn't take a medical degree to fiqure out, just common sense.

 

[dedmonwakin]

The Board of Health fully approves nicotine patches, gum and mints. So how can nicotine liquid that becomes water vapor be suspect? This doesn't take a medical degree to fiqure out, just common sense.

I think that you've forgotten the stand point that the FDA has taken. All that you have listed is sold at quality controlled dosages, the highest (I believe is 7-8mg of nicotine per 16-24 hour period)
Their supposed concern is that the nicotine is not under quality control because it's from China, since China does not have the same standards of quality control like things manufactured here in the U.S. and other regions that have the same practices. There seems to be many issues revolving FDA's concerns, like cross contamination, misuse and misguided medical claims and such.

Water vapor? Who steered you wrong?
Don't claim the vapor to be something that it is not.
Think of it as an odorless fume. This is the most correct description of the emission from your E-cig to mouth to exhale.

Just because it is liquid, gives you no right to assume that it is just water vapor. In that regards, heat up some odorless turpentine till it "vaporizes," take a deep breath and tell me if you still think that's water vapor.

I believe there is a fighting chance to have this not be banned. I believe the steps needed to be taken are, establishments under FDA guidelines and approval manufacturing the E-liquid. Selling only pre-measured cartridges, to reduce cross contamination to consumers of this controlled drug. Making no medical claims, until claims can be proven, and paying government taxes on the tobacco based product.

I personally think this is the route that will be taken. I don't believe that the E-cig device will be banned, as they haven't banned bongs and vaporizers in head shops. But, I do believe buying E-liquid direct from China will be and allowing a U.S. or FDA approved manufacture to take over the market, who will buy it from China...like Phillip Morris.