Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors

[Lessifer]

Another member just Posted this in Another Thread...

Something else seems wrong if the pg/vg ratios are that off.

 

[zoiDman]

...

FWIW I guess UK Vapors is being threatened with legal action as well, this entire thread has now been deleted (but still lives in Google) http://ukvapers.org/Thread-5-Pawns-delisted-by-Cloud-9-after-tests-show-record-levels-of-Diacetyl

...

Why am I starting to have a Vague Déjà vu of Jason Cropper going Ballistic on a UK Forum back in July of 2012?

 

[zoiDman]

Something else seems wrong if the pg/vg ratios are that off.

Yeah... Something Doesn't seem Right if the Tested e-Liquid below was supposed to be 3mg/ml 50:50....

 

[Jman8]

Blew right by ya eh @Jman8

Nope, I suspect it's a point that some will claim is necessary while also claiming FDA or others are being over zealous.

I continue to find overlap in what some vapers are advocating for and what FDA/ANTZ are going for. I just reckon the end game is different, though the path to getting there is fairly the same, and seemingly some on our side don't even know what their own end game is. I suspect, we may never know.

 

[SleeZy]

Also the people who advocates for FDA should realy listen to this interview with DR.F.

The FDA themselfs doesn't even know how a basic e cigg works. And they're supposed to scientists to regulate this?

 

[BigEgo]

your quite wrong.
the residual water in e-juice and there is plenty of it
vaporizes, atomizing(the same as any hand pump sprayer) the base is into a fine mist.
tiny droplets of the base mix.these droplets are estimated to large
to penetrate deep enough into the lungs like the smaller particles
in cigarette smoke can and do.its one of the reasons many
believe that is what makes vaping so inherently safe to begin with.

regards
mike

Except that there are nanoparticles in our vapor.

 

[dwcraig1]

Yeah... Something Doesn't seem Right if the Tested e-Liquid below was supposed to be 3mg/ml 50:50....

At first glance I thought it tested at 18mg nic but it seem to be 1.8mg nic, did I get this right in the end?
A pretty interesting thread, I DIY and was thinking to make some major changes to my mixing anyway.

 

[zoiDman]

At first glance I thought it tested at 18mg nic but it seem to be 1.8mg nic, did I get this right in the end?
A pretty interesting thread, I DIY and was thinking to make some major changes to my mixing anyway.

Yeah... .18% = 1.8mg/ml

Because 100% Nicotine is roughly 1000mg/ml

So to covert a Nicotine Percentage to mg/ml, just Multiply the Nicotine Percentage by 10.

 

[DC2]

But I was definitely the first in the current era to coin "Vaping"

You should have called it "fogging" if you ask me.

 

[Coldrake]

Never mind, it's already been posted.
Five Pawns posted this yesterday. News - Five Pawns

 

[Bgren99]

If juice vendors are lying to us about the harmful elements in their product, then they are no better than BT

 

[BigEgo]

Very interesting to learn that Smokey.

I wonder how much the true technical definition of the word "vapor" is used today? It seems now it is a generic term or sorts, much like "kleenex" now generically means any brand of facial tissue these days in the US, even though it is a specific brand. We say "Hand me a kleenex," not "hand me some facial tissue." Make sense?



Well said.

From basic physics we know there are four types of matter: liquid, solid, gas, plasma. Therefore, everything in our observable universe is one of these four types (I say "observable" because there is a 5th type called dark matter, but no one knows what it actually is yet).

The most common phase changes most of us are familiar with are: melting (solid to liquid), boiling (liquid to gas) and condensation (gas to liquid). There are other phase changes possible, but these are what most people recognize and are the phase changes that matter to us here.

Now, when someone says "vaporize," they mean to say a liquid that has been heated to its boiling point (the temperature varies based on what elements constitute the liquid). Once it boils, the liquid evaporates and enters the gas phase. In other words, the liquid has undergone a phase change.

When we see "vapor" emitted from our e-cigs, we actually aren't seeing a phase change because what we see isn't actually a liquid evaporating into a gas. Instead, what we see is an aerosol. An aerosol isn't a
"class" of matter (like a liquid or gas) in itself, but can be either a liquid or a solid that is suspended in a gas (in our case, the air). Cigarette smoke is an aerosol comprised of particulate matter (solids). Smoke in itself is a type of aerosol called a "fume." E-cig aerosol is comprised mostly of liquid droplets suspended in the air (though there is particulate matter and gas emitted too) and would probably be categorized as a mist. The classifications of aerosols (fumes, mist, spray, dust, etc.) depend on the size of the particles. The studies I have seen on e-cigs suggest the particle sizes vary widely, so it's hard to classify it. But I do think it's fair to say the particles are larger than what is found in smoke (or fumes).

TL;DR --What we see emitted from our e-cigs are aerosols (liquids mostly), not vapor.

 

[Funk Dracula]

From basic physics we know there are four types of matter: liquid, solid, gas, plasma. Therefore, everything in our observable universe is one of these four types (I say "observable" because there is a 5th type called dark matter, but no one knows what it actually is yet).

The most common phase changes most of us are familiar with are: melting (solid to liquid), boiling (liquid to gas) and condensation (gas to liquid). There are other phase changes possible, but these are what most people recognize and are the phase changes that matter to us here.

Now, when someone says "vaporize," they mean to say a liquid that has been heated to its boiling point (the temperature varies based on what elements constitute the liquid). Once it boils, the liquid evaporates and enters the gas phase. In other words, the liquid has undergone a phase change.

When we see "vapor" emitted from our e-cigs, we actually aren't seeing a phase change because what we see isn't actually a liquid evaporating into a gas. Instead, what we see is an aerosol. An aerosol isn't a
"class" of matter (like a liquid or gas) in itself, but can be either a liquid or a solid that is suspended in a gas (in our case, the air). Cigarette smoke is an aerosol comprised of particulate matter (solids). Smoke in itself is a type of aerosol called a "fume." E-cig aerosol is comprised mostly of liquid droplets suspended in the air (though there is particulate matter and gas emitted too) and would probably be categorized as a mist. The classifications of aerosols (fumes, mist, spray, dust, etc.) depend on the size of the particles. The studies I have seen on e-cigs suggest the particle sizes vary widely, so it's hard to classify it. But I do think it's fair to say the particles are larger than what is found in smoke (or fumes).

TL;DR --What we see emitted from our e-cigs are aerosols (liquids mostly), not vapor.

Very informative post BigEgo! This does help a lot when reading into certain things.

Cheers

 

[BigEgo]

Agreed. It's not a question of whether or not their product contains diacetyl / AP and whether or not it may be harmful, it's KNOWING that their product does, certainly since back in 2014 when their own testing results came back as positive and relatively high, as published on their blog. And then LYING TO CUSTOMERS and saying they contain none.

FWIW I guess UK Vapors is being threatened with legal action as well, this entire thread has now been deleted (but still lives in Google) http://ukvapers.org/Thread-5-Pawns-delisted-by-Cloud-9-after-tests-show-record-levels-of-Diacetyl

5 Pawns may be able to delete Facebook posts and threaten smaller companies in the UK (who owns UK Vapors?) But they're not going to succeed in getting it removed from reddit.
hey could market radioactive waste and put it in a pretty bottle with nice packaging and a high markup, their actions seem to demonstrate they'd have no problem with this.

Wait, so UK Vapors had to delete a discussion thread on this topic because of a threat from 5P?

 

[zoiDman]

Wait, so UK Vapors had to delete a discussion thread on this topic because of a threat from 5P?

That has Not be Proven.

And I think UKvapers is the Only one who can Say Definitively why that Thread was Closed.

I would say that this Thread came close to being Closed when some Members called Other Members ANTZ. And when some Member who Favor some Mandatory Requirements Bashed those who Do Not.

The Same thing may have happen in the UKvapers thread that was Closed.

 

[DC2]

I've spoken with Nude Nicotine about doing some testing.
I will provide more information regarding that on Thursday.

I am giving them the opportunity to reply themselves before I do so.

 

[Jman8]

If juice vendors are lying to us about the harmful elements in their product, then they are no better than BT

And there it is.

 

[Mazinny]

That has Not be Proven.

And I think UKvapers is the Only one who can Say Definitively why that Thread was Closed.

I would say that this Thread came close to being Closed when some Members called Other Members ANTZ. And when some Member who Favor some Mandatory Requirements Bashed those who Do Not.

The Same thing may have happen in the UKvapers thread that was Closed.

the threads have been removed in accordance with our Our Takedown policy and we cannot and will not discuss it further.

 

[zoiDman]

I've spoken with Nude Nicotine about doing some testing.
I will provide more information regarding that on Thursday.

I am giving them the opportunity to reply themselves before I do so.

Not to go into any Specific Details, but what type of Testing were you Thinking of?

 

[zoiDman]

the threads have been removed in accordance with our Our Takedown policy and we cannot and will not discuss it further.

We you say "Our Takedown policy", are you part of the UKvapers.org staff?