Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors
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By far, TFA has provided the Most Complete break downs of the Flavorings they sell.
Perfumer's Apprentice
You can also search for Flavors that Contain a certain Chemical Compound by Clicking on the Chemical Compound name in the Flavorings Component List.
Perfumer's Apprentice
Or you can search by the CAS#
Very true. It's okay to bash vapers -- the ones that are the bedrock of the community -- but it's not okay to not hold vendors feet to the fire that was ignited by their own claims?
Yep but I am not wild about most of their flavorings. Many are perfumy or have an aftertaste.
Wow. Holy Wow.
I emailed some retailers of 5p, with links to C9's test results, and the ClickBang podcast, and asked them to review the info and let me know what, if anything, they planned to do about carrying this line of eliquid. One retailer, IndyVaporShop.Com, chose instead of responding directly, to forward my email to 5 Pawns. This is the email I received from 5P:
Mike and Mark,
Thank you for forwarding this to us and we appreciate you and your team dealing with this professionally…
We take accusations very seriously, not only for ourselves but the industry as a whole. Yesterday we dealt with international and local legal teams all day to deal with an erroneous test and slander issue, so apologies for the delayed response.
It's a sad day in America when random tests without any validation on the product are taken for truth.
We appreciate each and every one of our Authorized Dealers, the staff and our customers and are continually testing our liquid; when a regulatory body requires data and provides standardized testing protocol we will comply.We have posted a statement with tests we have performed here: "
Five Pawns - Be Informed - Five Pawns
Five Pawns – Be Informed
Fivepawns is your place for all your e-liquid and e-juice needs. Try our premium vapor liquids to experience our signature taste and unrivaled quality.
FIVEPAWNS.COM
Now let me take this apart a paragraph at a time.
1st, I think that presently, the "industry as a whole" would likely resent the notion that 5P in any way represents them.
2nd, I will agree it is "A sad day in America". At least for Vapers that trust that when a manufacturer repeatedly makes claims that there is NO DA or AP in their product, that this statement might even be close to the truth.
3rd, "when a regulatory body requires data and provides standardized testing protocol we will comply". What about when a customer REQUESTS this info? Why was this not their response then, instead of giving information contrary to what tests that they had done on liquid THEY had submitted to a laboratory that THEY had chosen?
I am beginning to rethink my position that this industry does NOT need government oversight. If this is the level of integrity in the manufacturing of our eliquids by even a small minority of producers, God help us all.
Not to mention their own tests had very high numbers too ( just not as high as C9 tests ) and as we heard on the podcast in their own voice, they had said they will be provided as soon as they got them. Well that was October of last year.
As I said any juice maker that lies to us does not deserve to be in business. And I think the evidence is conclusive that they have directly lied to several of us posting here.
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I'm not sure if there is an Agree upon Level.
I don't think that CDC/OSHA has set any Standard Yet.
Here is some Info...
Safety and Health Information Bulletins | Occupational Exposure to Flavoring Substances: Health Effects and Hazard Control
You might want to Page Down towards the Bottom where Individual Chemicals Compounds are Listed. It is a Long, Sleep Inducing, Government Document.
The hell with it.
Today I did a search for 5P (expecting to see some 50% off sales, LOL) and I found sites (yes, plural) selling their products with descriptions that said something to the effect of: No DA/AP. I'll just quote one of them from their page selling 5P:
Brand Pledge:
This E-Liquid has been tested by a third party lab to assure the avoidance of the following harmful & potentially harmful constituents according to the highest standards possible: Acetyl Propionyl, Diacetyl
Now, after reading that I couldn't help but to wonder why they received no legal action from 5P to take that down. After all, it is fraudulent. No? If not fraudulent than it is surely libel, yes? Whatever, the bottom line is it's not true and there's no argument now from 5P about that fact. But it still stands even as of today! How could they let other sites go on selling their products like that knowing good and well that isn't and wasn't the truth? Who is really fraudulent here?!
Today I did a search for 5P (expecting to see some 50% off sales, LOL) and I found sites (yes, plural) selling their products with descriptions that said something to the effect of: No DA/AP. I'll just quote one of them from their page selling 5P:
Brand Pledge:
This E-Liquid has been tested by a third party lab to assure the avoidance of the following harmful & potentially harmful constituents according to the highest standards possible: Acetyl Propionyl, Diacetyl
Now, after reading that I couldn't help but to wonder why they received no legal action from 5P to take that down. After all, it is fraudulent. No? If not fraudulent than it is surely libel, yes? Whatever, the bottom line is it's not true and there's no argument now from 5P about that fact. But it still stands even as of today! How could they let other sites go on selling their products like that knowing good and well that isn't and wasn't the truth? Who is really fraudulent here?!
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Absolutely. I think that IndyVaporshop.Com, in forwarding my email as opposed to responding to it, either is not capable of forming their own opinion in this matter, or is jockeying for an extra allocation of Castle Long Reserve. In the spirit of full disclosure, this was my CC response to Jay Oku of 5p and "Mike" of IndyVaporShop.Com:
Thank you Mike, for including me in the loop in your conversations with Five Pawns.
Perhaps they would like to comment on the FACT that they HAVE had test results, since 2014, showing HIGHER levels of DA and AP than even Suicide Bunny had during their scandal. In a significant number of emails to customers who requested this information, and on the websites of many vendors who carry their liquid, there are claims that there is NO DA or AP present in their juices. Yet they continue to supply un-reformulated liquid to their vendors despite the knowledge that this is not correct information.
I take exception that 5P in any way represents “the industry as a whole”. I have found my dealings with other juice makers to be FAR more on the up and up. I take MY HEALTH very seriously. It is my personal opinion, that I take the results of a retailer of their juice, submitting a RETAIL blend to an independent laboratory, as likely more accurate of actual values than a sample submitted by the manufacturer for testing to a laboratory of THEIR choice.
It’s a sad day in America when the ALTERNATIVE to Big Tobacco appears to be going down the same road as the likes of RJR and Phillip Morris in deceiving consumers and withholding known statistics of laboratory analysis that would alarm educated vapers. The spin is all too familiar. Profit seems to be a higher motive than consumer awareness of facts in this matter.
I have never purchased Five Pawns. I have been given samples. Had I known of the high levels of AP and DA in this liquid, I would have never even sampled it. While I previously had advocated strongly to my representatives AGAINST government oversight of this industry, this is causing me to rethink my position on this matter. I believed that manufacturers would be extremely cautious just to PREVENT the need, but it appears I was mistaken.
Best regards,
For the "Brown" Flavors, some I Like. Some I Don't. Seems like the One's I like contain Levels of Acetyl Propionyl(2,3-Pentanedione).
I have Read conflicting reports that FlavourArt Flavors are Not Supposed to either Diacetyl or Acetylpropionyl. But I have had a Hard Time Verifying this.
good point. It is okay to post inaccurate information about ejuice and that is not actionable.
But post up an actual accredited laboratory test.......and you will be sued and hounded by lawyers.
I thought it was humorous when the CUSTOMER asks 5P for info, they got this:
Sounds like they are quite focused and busy suing people to really get involved with customer questions. But is is VERY CLEAR that they wanted the customer to know about their legal battles.
Seems very odd to me. Few companies go out of their way to let customers know about their lawsuits. I mean, that stuff is usually not discussed.
You can't eat something without inhaling some of its smell/flavour. If some food contains diacetyl, then you will inhale some while eating, proportionally to the amount contained in the food and how well it's bound to the solids/liquids that compose said food. That's how the guy eating his daily popcorn got his bronchiolitis. He didn't inhale the popcorn, he ate it.
So the question is - what's FDA's limit on how much diacetyl can be in food?
Woot, they don't have any? It's an "all you can eat" buffet?
And this is the agency you expect to be your saviour?
ROFLMAO.
Personally, I am far more offended that a VAPE SHOW OWNER from the Great State of Indiana, which thinks that the marital objectives of consenting adults who just happen to be of the same sex, is a matter for Government scrutiny, but misrepresentation and outright LYING about known dangerous chemicals in a consumer product, is OK. I'm guessing that 5P will still be available in that shop after today. Hopefully, nobody will ask anything immoral of them.
Expect to be my saviour no. But neither do I expect a juice company that lies to me to be my saviour. Who is yours? I watch after my own .... and expect no one to watch after me, but need information to make informed decisions on. Not to base my decisions on lies.
I was addressing the video and NIOSH position re diacetyl.
As for the thread, it's about someone's rant about how Vaporshark good and competitors bad. Having the displeasure to own one of their buggy DNA40 mods, and seeing how they tried to cover up software bugs as being the hardware manufacturer's fault, I don't think they're any better. It's a pot calls kettle black story.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as i know the software is made by Evolv, they make the hardware no ? Either way i'm falling into the trap of following your digression. Don't really care about Vaporshark one way or another
Have a good night !
I think we are living in an age where people don't take kindly to being lied to by corporatists.
Watching the fireworks when it happens is cringe-worthy and tragic, but I kinda can't blame people.
I don't know about Anyone Else?
But If I was Standing in the Middle of a Cacca Storm, and Russ had just got done Ripping me a New One on Click Bang, I don't think I could close a Correspondence about Diacetyl and Acetylpropionyl with the line...
"Try our premium vapor liquids to experience our signature taste and unrivaled quality."
... unless I was planning on spending All Day on Thursday doing Monster.com searches. Then I guess I wouldn't Care.
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