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E-Juice is Toxic and Very Harmful?

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by Rogo, May 4, 2012.

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  1. Rogo

    Rogo Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Location:
    Canada - Saskatchewan
    I was on GRBC - Canada's home of premium eliquid and electronic cigarettes earlier today and was reading about some general info about vaping, when I came across the header "What is e-Liquid and whats in it"

    e-cigarette newbies guide

    First it states "Consumption and exposure to propylene glycol is generally recognized as safe in humans."

    Ok, thats goods, but then under "Proper Use & Handling" it goes...

    E-liquid should never be used in any manner outside of e-cigarette use, its composition is toxic to humans and animals and should always be kept out of the reach of children and pets. If you ever spill e-liquid you should whipe it up immediately, its often sweet flavors invite naive animals into consuming it and even a small amount can be fatal to small animals. If you spill a large amount on yourself you should remove your clothing and thoroughly shower, the contents of a 30ml e-liquid bottle could be fatal to an adult if absorbed through the skin. Please always be responsible with your e-liquid. It is your responsibility to properly inform others about the hazards associated with it, so please do so.

    Wow, generally recognized as safe eh? So toxic to humans, and maybe even fatal if a small 30ml bottle were to spill on you? But fine to breathe into our lungs?

    Am I missing something here? Is the issue with the Nicotine? Or is VG & PG not really as safe as it is made out to seem?


    Thoughts, comments anyone? Should we be breathing this stuff in?


    Rogo ​
     
  2. mylose64

    mylose64 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Location:
    Savannah, GA
    I think it might have something to do with the e-liquid being more concentrated in liquid form and we can absorb it through our skin.

    Tobacco farmers can get sick from cutting down tobacco and being in close contact with it. It's called "green tobacco sickness"(pretty much nicotine poisoning).

    When we inhale it, I don't think we get as much nicotine either.
     
  3. zapped

    zapped Registered Supplier Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Location:
    Richmond
    The toxicity comes from the nicotine inside not the propylene glycol.A non smoker, small animal or child who comes into contact with that can get violently ill and in some cases die.Thats what the warning is for.

    I spill ejuice on my hands all the time but Im used to it......your friendly neighborhood squirrel prolly isnt.
     
  4. TravTech

    TravTech Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Location:
    PA
    Not to mention the yummy flavors and smell might induce children or pets to drink the whole bottle at once.
     
  5. V_Joe1981

    V_Joe1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Location:
    Eagan, MN.
    I've had a little ejuice fly in my eye once and only once, little ejuice hit my tounge and get on my fingers and still feel 10x's better then when I was smoking.

    I'm glad warnings like that are in place and to keep ppl from lathering tutti fruity on the chest before a fun night out or to drink it like a little shooter bottle you can get at the liquor store lol just my 2 cents :)
     
  6. Raah

    Raah Full Member Verified Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Location:
    Australia
    I thought PG was used in Gel Capsules in pharmaceutical applications. Where the Gel dissipates in the stomach acids and the medicine is released. Considering that the Gel is PG and getting dissolved in the stomach, I can't much understand why they would insinuate that it is toxic and harmful.
     
  7. Unforeseen

    Unforeseen Asst. Suppliers Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
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    Where you least expect it....
    Misinformed people giving bad information is always a bad thing.

    Moved from General E-Smoking Discussin to Health, Safety, and E-Smoking.
     
  8. zapped

    zapped Registered Supplier Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Once again it isnt the pg its the nicotine.The vendor also has an overactive imagination/ is just attempting to cover their buttocks in case they get sued.Unfortunately they are also inadvertently spreading misinformation in the process since the general public has the tendency to consider them expert.Maybe someone should write them a letter.
     
  9. Murdock Ruml

    Murdock Ruml Supplier's Manufacturer - Offline ECF Veteran

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    Alaska
    Yes, nicotine is a poison.
     
  10. Toronnah

    Toronnah Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Location:
    Canada
    Lasagna is safe to eat but I sure wouldn't want any in my lungs.

    Please people. Stop equating safe to ingest as safe to inhale.
     
  11. Maestro

    Maestro Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    I've got some e-juice in my mouth from time to time and I don't think I could force this stuff down my kid's throat if she was in a coma. Bleah
     
  12. Rogo

    Rogo Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Location:
    Canada - Saskatchewan
    A little follow up with GRBC - I revieced an email this morning about this topic, really glad to see the guys over at GRBC are taking this much times to educate there customers, very classy. They write...


    Hey Rogo!

    Allow me to explain.

    E-liquid contains several common ingredients.
    All but 1 of those ingredients are on US FDA GRAS lists. The GRAS list stands for "Generally Recognized As Safe" and is a list of thousands if not millions of molecular structures that scientific literature has shown do not pose any risk to humans if consumed. The GRAS list is like the green list for chemicals a company can use in a product that the FDA has verified won't make it harmful.

    Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin are both GRAS listed ingredients, and as such are found in all kinds of products from toothpaste to soup to shampoo. Produts you eat, products you rub on yourself, products you use to treat yourself. They are inert ingredients that are GRAS by the FDA.

    The HARMFUL component of e-liquid is the Nicotine.

    Nicotine is NOT a GRAS listed ingredient, infact, when shipped in its pure form it is classified as a UN Packing Group 2 Hazard Class 8 hazardous material. It has an NFPA safety rating of H4, F1, R0, with no special circumstances. This means its Health Hazard rating is a class 4, the highest possible rating for health hazard under the NFPA rating system which means short immediate exposure to sufficient quantities can result in immediate death to humans and animals if the doses are sufficiently strong enough. Its also a very effective environmental toxin shown to be extremely toxic to aquatic life like frogs and fish as well as insects (nicotine is tobacco leafs natural pesticide that it produces to stop insects from trying to eat it - the same thing ... is for ......... plants a natural insecticide produced by the plant, both have a different effect in the mammalian body than they do in the insect body)

    Pure nicotine is 1001mg/ml strength, a single droplet of pure nicotine on your skin can be fatal. In e-liquid its dosages are usually less than 1/30th the strength of pure nicotine. At these concentrations a drop on your skin won't be much to worry about. However if you spilled the entire contents of a 30ml eliquid bottle on yourself and did not change your clothes/wash your skin, its possible you could sustain a fatal overdose after enough had absorbed transdermally through your skin, ALL AT ONCE. When you vape it, your vaping a much much smaller dosage thats far below the toxicity level of nicotine (its generally believed only 30% of the nicotine actually gets absorbed when your vaping so if your vaping 10mg/ml your probably only intaking 3-4mg of nicotine for every ml you vape, and 3-4mg is less than alot of cigarettes state on their emissions). If you drank the entire bottle of eliquid, you'd be absorbing 99% of the nicotine content, all at once, you'd have a really uncomfortable death.

    Simple common sense should keep you safe. If you spill e-liquid on yourself, wash it off. If you spill some on a table, thoroughly wipe it up or else your dog might smell it and lick it up. The fatal dosage for nicotine is far less for an animal than a human, the smaller the animal the more careful you should be about leaving any droplets laying around on household surfaces that your dog might come across and start licking because it smells good and then an hour later drops dead because of it. Nobody wants that!

    Children may also be invited to want to eat the eliquid because of its nice smells. Childproof caps are a good first step, but they arent a guarantee against anything, good parenting is a guarantee. The best advice id have if you vape and have small children around, is to sit the children down and explain to them that the contents of your eliquid bottles are poisonous and that they must not drink them no matter how good they smell. Its really no different than explaining to kids not to drink paint thinner, or not to play with the bottle of chlorine bleach, or any other household item that is potentially harmful (corrosive or toxic or both). Also generally good practice to keep your eliquid out of the reach of children and animals at all times, thats the fail safe. In a cupboard high up on a shelf, out of sight out of mind as they say.

    Hope that helps Josef! Nic is toxic, but so is tylenol. Its all about moderation. Many things are toxic in large dosages, but fine in therapeutic dosage ranges.

    - Daniel


    Very helpful and in-formable. So maybe Nicotine is what we should be really concerned about here, instead of bouncing back and forth on the PG/VG debate.


    Rogo
     
  13. KeithB

    KeithB Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    I have read the PG is toxic to cats and you should make sure it's not something they're going to be exposed to in any quantity.
     
  14. Maestro

    Maestro Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    Remember it's the dose that makes it poisonous. Just about every substance in your medicine cabinet, garage and kitchen is harmful if you take too much of it, including water.
     
  15. Vchick

    Vchick PIF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    NE Ohio
    I'm always amazed when I see posts like this....:facepalm:
     
  16. McDougal

    McDougal Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY


    Hi Rogo, and welcome.

    What that means is that e-liquid should be kept away from children or pets, because drinking a nicotine solution can be dangerous, especially for kids and animals that don't understand its proper use. The propylene glycol would be the least of your worries, considering it is in food products. Nicotine, on the other hand, is poisonous.

    Many things are poisonous that we consume, but we consume them at low enough levels that there are no or little adverse effects. As well, fine particulates in air pollution can cause adverse effects, but the amount x exposure time determines how dangerous it is.

    As far as e-liquid goes, the truth of the matter is that no data from long term use exists, considering they have been on the market for only 4-5 years. It's entirely up to you to determine is you want to go the e-cig route. I suggest looking at the studies that have been done thus far, but it is very important to put them in context. In other words, if a study states that "e-cigs affect airways", it may not mention that air pollution you breathe every day may do the same thing or even worse. Also, find analyses and credible commentary from medical professionals and academics to put it in context.

    Considering the thousands of carcinogens in cigarette smoke, and the fact that you are inhaling combustion byproducts in the first place when smoking, most vapers see e-cigs as drastic harm reduction, as well as many medical doctors.

    Good luck!​
     
  17. Forkeh

    Forkeh Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Location:
    California
    Nicotine is what we're concerned about here. Mostly safe(ish) in very small doses, toxic if you get too much. A simple concept that embodies most substances. Water, oxygen, protein. Nicotine just happens to have a toxicity level at a very small dose. So....the nicotine is pretty safe to vape, but depending on the nic level in the juice, a whole bottle can be a problem, if it gets on your skin and stays there, because it can absorb through the skin.

    If you spill a little 6 or 12 mg juice on yourself, it's hardly cause for concern, but you can't just dose yourself in 30ml of, say, 24 mg juice without expecting some bad results. Similarly, you can drink a glass of water with no ill effects, but drink two gallons in a short period of time, and you're in trouble.

    As for it being toxic to children and pets, smaller body mass, means a toxicity level at a much smaller dose than a human/animal with a much larger body mass.
     
  18. Forkeh

    Forkeh Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Location:
    California
    PG is a common carrier in Asthma inhalers and is the liquid used in fog machines. Better?
     
  19. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Location:
    Iowa
    I smoked 2-3 packs a day for over 40 years (no that's not a typo ... 40 yrs)
    Nicotine is my drug of choice ... I have no concerns and have vaped 36mg for 4 years.
    If a drop or two gets on my skin ... I rub it in.
    :p
     
  20. suziewright

    suziewright Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Location:
    Texas

    That lasagna will give you aspiration pneumonia!
     
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