Serious warning! Deadly juice!

[JME]

My last post seems to be/go a bit off topic. I do apologize for that, OP. If the OP wishes, if you want to continue our discussion GIMike you could reply to what I've said here to have the last word and then we will PM if you want to continue a conversation.. Or if the OP wishes I could remove the irrelevant parts of my post and just PM you, GIMIke.

Depends what the OP wants.

I don't want to start any trouble .

 

[Old Chemist]

Hey, JME - are you aware of an Internet law stating: there's no serious thread without at least OT?
And I like to have all of my threads look serious, you know.

 

[Starspecks]

Would calling it "poop juice" be okay?

Sent from my Evo

 

[hippiebrian]

It doesn't matter if you call it juice, super-happy-fun-liquid, or poison. If kids can get at it, they'll try and put into their mouths.

Keep it out of kids' little reaches. Bottom line. Changing what we call it will not matter one iota. What matters is personal responsibility. If a kid o.d.'s on nicotine because it was left unattended on a table, it's the parent's fault, not mine for calling it juice. Heck, we don't call vicodin candy, but how many kids had to be 911ed because parents didn't put their scripts away?

Calling it juice is not an issue.

 

[MagnusEunson]

It doesn't matter one iota to the issue of kids being curious. I agree.

It matters a lot when it comes to the bizarre fights for individual rights and perceptions when the FDA and Legislators come it.

They'll stand in DC holding a 100ml bottle of Gorilla Juice waiving it around like a possessed lunatic going "SEE?! SEE WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO TO THE CHILDREN!!!!"...

That's the issue I see here and I think it's reasonable, tactically, to take it seriously. -Magnus

 

[JonesJustJones]

I always call it "tasty juice" and I put a big yellow smiley orange sticker on the bottle. Don´t have any children at home but last time I came home drunk, totally depressed since my girlfriend left me, I thought I drink it.
What could have happened? It´s just a little nicotine in it?

 

[Doomed!]

If a child swallows some e-liquid it's the parents' fault for leaving it where the child could get it, not my fault for calling it "juice". How about talking to your kids and making sure that they know that it is grown up juice and that it is not for them. My dad kept guns in the house when I was a kid. I was told, with no uncertain terms, that I was to leave the guns alone and I would pay dearly if I ever went near them. To this day I won't touch a gun. My dad was a scary man when he needed to be.

 

[Doomed!]

I think it is time.. to bring out the very large green YUCK FACE stickers... too

I have a 2 year old.. if I called my vape (I call my liquid my "vape stuff" ICKY KAKA OUCHIES YUCK for mama only is added when around my son) juice he'd be all into that stuff.... so I agree with OP about it being a horrible idea to refer to vapes as "juice".

My 2 year old LOVES juice and I could see someone referring to their e-liquid as juice and him thinking it was juice and trying to get it and trying a slug of it or more. I really can see that happening. Maybe people whose kids are grown and do not really remember what it's like with a toddler or who have less adventurous "try everything" toddlers vs my "if it looks yummy or sounds yummy I'm going to try to get that stuff" 2 year old..

And at the people who think they will stop because it tastes bad or burns? Not necessarily.. Kids have been known to drink bleach, to drink drano, to drink all sorts of NASTY tasting cleaners and even things like isopropyl alcohol etc. Why do you think there are case-reports of children dying after drinking such stuff? Because kids don't stop at a lick. They guzzle/down/drink things.

My 2 year old drank half a bottle of dawn dish soap because it was pretty and smelled nice, I think .. I don't imagine it tasted very good.. I imagine my vape tastes much better than that.. actually I know it does... and he was 18 months old and I'm pretty sure in his little brain he thought "maybe the next guzzle with taste better.. it smells nice!" .. He was fine, had a little bit of the poops.. yes I called to make sure I didn't need to take him to the ER or anything. But, that blows the whole "if it tastes nasty they'll stop" thing out of the water, at least for my kid.

I vape no-nic liquid and have for quite a while now.. anyway.... but I still keep it out of his reach or locked up cause I don't want him to get into it.

I can see where the OP is coming from very clearly because I know my kid would totally drink something someone was referring to as "juice" and left it in his reach and turned around/walked away/whatever. Or even if they put it up. He might, in his toddler-esque sneakiness (oh, he drags chairs, watches for the front door to be unlocked and darts out it.. he's a clever little ... pooh!), find a way to get it down. The only solution is, if it has poison, lock it up and make it non-enticing.

Child safe caps? HAHA! He can bite them off! Oh yes. He can.

You cannot train a 2 year old (or 3 or 4) to have willpower against a word like "juice". It's like expecting your even EXCELLENTLY trained dog not to eat the pork chop if you leave the room. It's just not going to happen for like 99% of dogs. They're gonna eat the thing. They don't have the brain capability to have self-restraint like that, not without you staring at them, and in many cases even with you staring at them. So, you have to keep it out of their reach/locked up and simulanteously not make it extra enticing (just incase, you say, forget to close your lock-box all the way or have a brain fart and leave the liquid on the counter for a moment as you turn your back. Or they learn how to climb. Or whatever. I mean, parents are human??). I bet you anything if I called my vape "candy/chocolate/juice" my kid .. rather than just ignoring it as another "icky yucky" .. would be actively trying to get into my e-liquid. And he would likely catch me making a mistake if he was actively trying to.

Be real folks. Words do matter with little kids. I would argue that the sweet names are a bad idea to use around them too.

I have never referred to my e-liquid with the candy names or fruit names for that very reason.

It is always just my "smoke" my "vape stuff.. " "icky kaka ouchies yuck".

Of course, I have a really adventurous/determined toddler. Maybe my views are colored by that. hahaha.

My dog will leave a pork chop alone if I tell him to. I could even put it in his dish and he wouldn't touch it unless I told him it was ok to do so. I could recommend some books for you to read if you want to train your dog... or kid.

 

[Old Chemist]

If a child swallows some e-liquid it's the parents' fault for leaving it where the child could get it, not my fault for calling it "juice".

Yea... that's so easy (and very childish IMHO) - "not my fault, not my fault"... are you sure?

How about talking to your kids and making sure that they know that it is grown up juice and that it is not for them.

How about using proper word for something that definitely is NOT a juice? Wouldn't that be easier? Wiser? Simpler?

My dad kept guns in the house when I was a kid.

Did he call it a gun or rather toy? You really don't see the difference between those words?

Why some people insist on using a stupid and misleading word? Too lazy to change your vocabulary perhaps?
I wouldn't be surprised when FDA points to that word and say: hey - they suggest that this is for children. They use this word on purpose. An then you will have a real problem. You - meaning people living in US. Not me, living in Europe and not using misleading nomenclature.
Then I will tell you - hey... remember my thread?
Read MagnusEuson's post above - it's really worth reading.
So again and again I ask - does it make sense to use this stupid word?

 

[QBass]

For anyone thinking this is about who's responsibility a child's actions are, you're not seeing the picture clearly enough. It's about not giving the money grubbing sharks in Big Tobacco and Big Medicine an image to aim their smoke and mirrors at while dancing in Washington. You can thumb your nose at propriety because you're too "free" and cool to do otherwise, and they will have you back on analogs or doing deals on the corner for your fix just as soon as they possibly can. That's just how they roll. Freedom fighting is one thing; suicidal righteousness is another.

 

[hippiebrian]

For anyone thinking this is about who's responsibility a child's actions are, you're not seeing the picture clearly enough. It's about not giving the money grubbing sharks in Big Tobacco and Big Medicine an image to aim their smoke and mirrors at while dancing in Washington. You can thumb your nose at propriety because you're too "free" and cool to do otherwise, and they will have you back on analogs or doing deals on the corner for your fix just as soon as they possibly can. That's just how they roll. Freedom fighting is one thing; suicidal righteousness is another.

If you think calling it "juice" is going to make one iota of a difference in how the FDA handles things, you are sorely mistaken. We could call it mustard gas or tasty happy yummy juice and they wouldn't care. It isn't, and never was, about protecting minors. It's aabout pandering to the big pharmaceuticals and big tobacco companies which provide most of the FDA funding, period. It's also not about what public opinion is as about the FDA trying to dictate public opinion. So long as the FDA says our devices are deadly, the public is going to think they are deadly, no matter what we call juice.

 

[hippiebrian]

Yea... that's so easy (and very childish IMHO) - "not my fault, not my fault"... are you sure?

Yes, I'm sure that if someone else's child gets hold of anything they shouldn't, it's not my fault. It really is that easy.

How about using proper word for something that definitely is NOT a juice? Wouldn't that be easier? Wiser? Simpler?

Juice is much simpler than saying e-liquid. One is a real word that can be found in Webster's, one's not.

Did he call it a gun or rather toy? You really don't see the difference between those words?

My folks had guns also. Didn't matter if he called it chocolate, they were not to be touched. When parents are responsible about keeping things away from children, it really doesn't matter what they call it. There was also Peppermint Schnapps in my house I was told not to touch and was kept out of my reach. Even when i was in High School I never touched it even though the name sounded like yummy peppermint!

Why some people insist on using a stupid and misleading word? Too lazy to change your vocabulary perhaps?
I wouldn't be surprised when FDA points to that word and say: hey - they suggest that this is for children. They use this word on purpose. An then you will have a real problem. You - meaning people living in US. Not me, living in Europe and not using misleading nomenclature.
Then I will tell you - hey... remember my thread?
Read MagnusEuson's post above - it's really worth reading.
So again and again I ask - does it make sense to use this stupid word?

I have to re-iterate here, the FDA does not care if we call it juice. The electronic cigarette industry doesn't have the cash to help fund the FDA like big tobacco and the big pharmaceuticals do. Period. They dictate what the FDA does, and me calling it either juice or rat poison has no bearing what so ever.

 

[tangentx]

http://www.onion.demon.co.uk/theonion/other/babies/stupidbabies.htm

Back when the onion was funny....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[MagnusEunson]

In what can only be considered luck when dealing with the dishonest FDA they were told that they have to play within PACT and any new regulations need to go to Legislation. So again, why do we want to risk some Legislator motivated by whatever waiving around a "juice" like they've done about video game ratings, toy guns, and any number of other things over the years?

There is a tactical point to pro-actively self-regulating. And while I agree that it makes little ~actual~ difference, well, so does more of the "security" the Legislators put in place. It's about security theatre and we'd be ill advised to ignore it. -Magnus

 

[shanagan]

I just really don't understand the argument for calling it juice. I mean, I get it, parents are responsible for their kids. Check. Some people will always jump on the chance to armchair parent, it's a pretty popular internet sport.

But what's so sacred about calling it juice? Why is it something worth coming in here and even debating? Without getting all "this used to be a free country before we did things for the children.. or before the Dems/Repubs ruined everything!" - explain why calling it juice is a better idea than calling it liquid/nicquid/whatever.

 

[hippiebrian]

I just really don't understand the argument for calling it juice. I mean, I get it, parents are responsible for their kids. Check. Some people will always jump on the chance to armchair parent, it's a pretty popular internet sport.

But what's so sacred about calling it juice? Why is it something worth coming in here and even debating? Without getting all "this used to be a free country before we did things for the children.. or before the Dems/Repubs ruined everything!" - explain why calling it juice is a better idea than calling it liquid/nicquid/whatever.

I don't care if you call it pee personally. I call it juice because that's what I'm used to and there is no real reason not to. No real reason not to is my point here.

 

[shanagan]

I don't care if you call it pee personally. I call it juice because that's what I'm used to and there is no real reason not to. No real reason not to is my point here.

Is it just being stubborn, or living up to your name, when presented with a reason (parenting digs aside, and even if you don't see the merit to it) to go ahead and change our slang now? I'm not being argumentative here, just curious. It strikes me as odd that anyone would really care enough not to care, if you know what I mean.

 

[Old Chemist]

I don't care if you call it pee personally. I call it juice because that's what I'm used to and there is no real reason not to. No real reason not to is my point here.

Right - you can call it whatever you want. You may pretend even to be a hippe. You are NOT a hippie, you just pretend you are.
Well, I may call someone an idiot if I feel like it. I am sure you don't mind.

 

[dragonladee]

My youngest child is a 5 year old who has epilepsy. The type of epilepsy he has is known to cause personality issues, as seizures in the temporal lobe can make the patient not have a clear understanding of actions to consequences. He is of above average intelligence and you can hold a conversation with him like an adult, but he just doesn't always get that x happens when you do y. It's kindof like he has never outgrown parts of the under 3 stage where you have to be paranoid about every little thing and have to watch them literally every second.

I know my case is not the normal parenting situation, but I wanted to explain it as I think it can offer a different perspective to a conversation like this. Whether or not my child listens to me has nothing to do with my parenting skills, and no, I am not in need of a book. People who meet my child would have no idea from speaking to and interacting with him for a short time that he will do something that is dangerous or completely illogical even after it has been thoroughly discussed and seemingly understood.

I know in my home that anything like this liquid or any cleaners or chemicals or weapons simply have to be stored in a way that it is impossible for him to get to. Were he at someone else's house and they told him ouchie, yucky, e-liquid....he could still make a beeline for it. As could almost every toddler in the world, or any pet. A normal 12 year old doesn't go around trying to guzzle bleach anyway, so they aren't part of the consideration because they are capable of comprehending regardless of the name.

Having said all that my point is that while I am all about having to worry about child safety, for this purpose children and pets that are incapable of understanding the danger anyway aren't going to be swayed ONE BIT by what we call the dangerous item. Skulls and crossbones don't make a difference either. The ONLY thing that is going to keep them out of harm's way is to keep the harmful thing out of their possible way. You think you know your child or pet will obey to you every time, but all it takes is that once you weren't expecting. Every senseless tragedy ends with someone saying "I never would've thought".

I definitely understand how government or the tobacco industry would take the slang terms used in vaping and twist that into something they could use to make it sound like it caters to or targets children. I've already seen FDA and news reports that imply that anyway. I agree that calling it juice is probably a bad idea just because it gives them another excuse to try to sway the public and legislation, totally outside of the actual safety and into fear mongering.

But insofar as changing the terminology making it safe to NOT keep this or anything toxic anything other than out of reach all the time? I'm sorry but I just don't see that. And if you always keep it safely out of the way, the name is a moot point anyway.

 

[hippiebrian]

Is it just being stubborn, or living up to your name, when presented with a reason (parenting digs aside, and even if you don't see the merit to it) to go ahead and change our slang now? I'm not being argumentative here, just curious. It strikes me as odd that anyone would really care enough not to care, if you know what I mean.

It's not that I don't care, don't get me wrong. It's just that changing what we call the stuff we put in our p.v.'s is not an issue and pretty much a waste of effort.
What is not a waste of effort is getting the word about how much e-cigs, p.v.'s or whatever else you choose to call them are changing people's lives in a positive, healthy manner. Getting the word out about the relative harmlessness of this and other alternatives, such as snus and dissolvables. Getting the word out to not only the public but also the F.D.A. how many lives these things can save.

Part of that is keeping terminology sstandard. Pretty much across the board (I know there are exceptions) the liquid is known as juice. The devices known as e-cigs or p.v.'s. When I say juice, people know what I'm talking about. Keep it simple, you know? Remember, names are names and we are going to be accepted not on what we call things, but on the truth about the relative safety of what we're doing. Let's face it, those "save the children" people are going to say what about the children no matter what we call it.

O.K., I'm done here. You may not agree, but I think my point has been made, which is all I was trying to do.