My post wasn't worded very clearly. By added flavors I meant adding additional flavoring when mixing a juice would create a hybrid. So a hybrid NET would includes the tobacco extract plus additional flavoring ingredients. If someone extracts a tobacco that has flavors added during the processing of the tobacco, such as a flavored cavendish or an ACID cigar, and makes a finished juice without adding any flavoring ingredients, it's not a hybrid.
Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux
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My post wasn't worded very clearly. By added flavors I meant adding additional flavoring when mixing a juice would create a hybrid. So a hybrid NET would includes the tobacco extract plus additional flavoring ingredients. If someone extracts a tobacco that has flavors added during the processing of the tobacco, such as a flavored cavendish or an ACID cigar, and makes a finished juice without adding any flavoring ingredients, it's not a hybrid.
Clay at NET.com also had/has a slight issue with the term sometimes. On one of the NET's he has... he found a flavoring that he wanted to add tasted better when he first applied it to the tobacco and let it soak/dry, than when he added it to the extract afterword. He didn't place that one in his hybrid line-up but he mentioned it in the description... then had a little fun with it saying it was a hybrid but not ( or something like that )...
I don't recall which one it was right now... and I'm about to leave for a while... I'll try looking for it later after I get back to the house.
Lol, yeah there is a gray area that would result in a finished product that some would argue is a hybrid NET and others argue not. Luckily, it's extremely rare for those to exist in the market. The vast majority of NETs are either straight-up extract plus base or extract plus base plus additional flavoring.Clay at NET.com also had/has a slight issue with the term sometimes. On one of the NET's he has... he found a flavoring that he wanted to add tasted better when he first applied it to the tobacco and let it soak/dry, than when he added it to the extract afterword. He didn't place that one in his hybrid line-up but he mentioned it in the description... then had a little fun with it saying it was a hybrid but not ( or something like that )...
I don't recall which one it was right now... and I'm about to leave for a while... I'll try looking for it later after I get back to the house.
I can agree with that... So, as long as the extraction represents the flavors the processor / blender intended without adding an additional flavoring, it's a NET.
Would adding some sort of a sweetener or bump a varietal (Latakia as an example) to the finished extract still represent a NET in your opinion?
Not in a way to alter the flavors, but in an attempt to better translate the flavor of the tobacco in a vape? Considering some flavors don't seem to carry over very well such as the herbal wrapper of a Kuba Kuba.
For me, casings and toppings make tobacco an AROMATIC. A macerated extract of an aromatic tobacco produces an aromatic extract.
A hybrid---as we've historically used that term on this thread---includes additional non-tobacco flavorings added during the final mixing of the juice.
Nothing very confusing about that. When Clay at N-E-T or Brian at RBFS add toppings---meaning that they spray flavorings onto whatever blend of cured tobacco they've going to extract, whether a commercial blend or a blend they made themselves, and then let the flavorings dry---the subsequent extracts would be categorized as aromatics. Hybrids use flavorings added in liquid form after the tobacco is extracted. HHV is the vendor best known around here for its hybrids, although most NET vendors make them. RBFS is the only brand of NET I know that doesn't make hybrids, at least not so far.
By the way, this distinction isn't meant as a value judgment. I see aromatics vs hybrids as a choice. One or the other method may produce a better-tasting juice with a particular tobacco, but I don't feel that aromatics are innately superior to hybrids. Just my 2¢. YMMV.
A hybrid---as we've historically used that term on this thread---includes additional non-tobacco flavorings added during the final mixing of the juice.
Nothing very confusing about that. When Clay at N-E-T or Brian at RBFS add toppings---meaning that they spray flavorings onto whatever blend of cured tobacco they've going to extract, whether a commercial blend or a blend they made themselves, and then let the flavorings dry---the subsequent extracts would be categorized as aromatics. Hybrids use flavorings added in liquid form after the tobacco is extracted. HHV is the vendor best known around here for its hybrids, although most NET vendors make them. RBFS is the only brand of NET I know that doesn't make hybrids, at least not so far.
By the way, this distinction isn't meant as a value judgment. I see aromatics vs hybrids as a choice. One or the other method may produce a better-tasting juice with a particular tobacco, but I don't feel that aromatics are innately superior to hybrids. Just my 2¢. YMMV.
Keep in mind that hybrids are still NET. Any juice that contains extracted tobacco as an ingredient falls under our definition of NET, whether it's the only flavoring ingredient or one of many.
Hybrid NET is simply a way to classify tobacco extract + additional flavors during mixing.
With the idea of adding additional ingredients to modify the juice in a way, such as a touch of EM for added sweetness, if done subtly it doesn't quite reach the level of a hybrid NET. I have a feeling that's done quite by often by vendors in NETs we don't consider hybrid. I have no issue with that, as long as the vendor isn't claiming 'no added ingredients'.
Exactly, not a judgement call by me either, just a way to describe two different processes commonly used in producing flavored NETs.
Let's take for example an apple tobacco NET. The two main ways to create that are: 1. Extract an aromatic apple pipe tobacco or 2. Use an apple flavoring when mixing up a NET. Both ways can result in a superior apple tobacco (or a terrible one). What matters to most of us here is the flavor of the end product.
One thing hybrids have over aromatic tobacco extractions is more versatility in creating a product that's unique to the artists imagination, such as Grilled Pineapple from Clay and Vita Bella from Nick.
Making a good hybrid requires mixing skills, creativity, and access to quality ingredients. Making a good straight NET requires solid extraction technique, tobacco selection knowledge, a good bit of trial & error and luck. The best vendors such as GeJ and NETcom are proficient in both styles.
Ummm... yeah, heh... Brain-Fart!
I blame it on my 4-yr old!
I did mean to say NET or Hybrid NET, kind of... I guess I considered a Hybrid to be a NET with a combination of either artificial flavorings or an infusion with an extracted flavor (other than tobacco) that seems to be really popular these days.
An example that comes to mind would be Nicoticket's Virus or Radioactive. Apparently he uses a combination of an in-house NET, TA and then the flavorings, yet nobody seems to consider them Hybrids nor NETs. I remember Shatner bought it up back in the early days but I don't seem to remember where that sort of liquid fell in category. I did "fall off the planet" for a while and may have missed it.
A NET in my thoughts is a single maceration, a blended tobacco mash, or a mix of two or more NET extracts... NET or NET blend. A hybrid would have a NET base or addition, but not technically be considered a true NET.
I noticed a lot of people are dropping some vanilla bean scrapings,herbs, citrus, etc. in their macerations... that's where the confusion seems to begin for me.
I agree on a sweetener to adjust a flavor rather than alter it and still remain a NET by definition.
Ok.... I'm back and had a bit of time to look at Clay's website for the NET I mentioned...
It's his "Deep Caramel Pipe" ( found in the Pipe section ) and I'll actually quote him now..
It's his "Deep Caramel Pipe" ( found in the Pipe section ) and I'll actually quote him now..
Fermented cavendishes lend a smoky-sweet tobacco backdrop for this rich, luxurious caramel used as both a casing, which helps bring out natural flavors and characteristics of a specific tobacco leaf varietal but rarely leaves a detectable flavor to the finished pipe blend, as well as a dressing/topping which is clear to the palate on this one! Not quite rich enough as extracted, and techniically qualifying as one of our Hybrids, we've added a touch more all-natural caramel to this tobacco and allowed it ample time to soak in prior to extraction. So therefore...not.... technically..... a hybrid. got it?
The end result is a light to (maybe) medium-bodied tobacco; not overly sweet, but definitely more of a dessert vape!
OK, just because I was up late last night playing cards with another couple doesn't meant I'm fair game to make me more confused than I already am today, LOL
got a few more tobaccos today, a gawith hoggarth 'twist' something called Balkan mix[latakia] and AK gold.
the gold is really sweet and hay bail.
I decided to add a few drops of salt solution to try to reduce the sweetness and dry the vape.
seems quite effective too.
obviously all my extractions are still young so thing will likely change over time.
My only commercial net comparisons are the house of liquid products.
Besides lovely flavours ,the texture,volume and bite of the vaping experience are important to me.
some of the house of liquid nets have a lovely smoky spicy feel , a peppery tingle for the nose. [without a high nic blast]
All good [ compulsive] fun though, like making a piece of art for the nose!
the gold is really sweet and hay bail.
I decided to add a few drops of salt solution to try to reduce the sweetness and dry the vape.
seems quite effective too.
obviously all my extractions are still young so thing will likely change over time.
My only commercial net comparisons are the house of liquid products.
Besides lovely flavours ,the texture,volume and bite of the vaping experience are important to me.
some of the house of liquid nets have a lovely smoky spicy feel , a peppery tingle for the nose. [without a high nic blast]
All good [ compulsive] fun though, like making a piece of art for the nose!
OK, just because I was up late last night playing cards with another couple doesn't meant I'm fair game to make me more confused than I already am today, LOL
If confused about the subject of what's specifically just a NET ... a hybrid etc
Anything with naturally extracted tobacco is some sort of NET no matter if has other flavors mixed into it or not...
Strictly a NET... only NET extractions ( one or more ) with no other flavorings added... we are a bit loose on the definition so minor additions may be overlooked.
A Hybrid NET... is a NET extraction with the addition of other flavorings... say caramel, vanilla, cocoa, chocolate etc etc. These additional flavors were not part of the initial casings or toppings that were in the original tobacco that was extracted.
If it's still not clear... either re-read the previous posts to put it into context.... or have some "hair of the dog" so you won't care if you understand or not...
If confused about the subject of what's specifically just a NET ... a hybrid etc
Anything with naturally extracted tobacco is some sort of NET no matter if has other flavors mixed into it or not...
Strictly a NET... only NET extractions ( one or more ) with no other flavorings added... we are a bit loose on the definition so minor additions may be overlooked.
A Hybrid NET... is a NET extraction with the addition of other flavorings... say caramel, vanilla, cocoa, chocolate etc etc. These additional flavors were not part of the initial casings or toppings that were in the original tobacco that was extracted.
If it's still not clear... either re-read the previous posts to put it into context.... or have some "hair of the dog" so you won't care if you understand or not...
Alright, I'll have some "hair of the dog", but I don't see what good diet Pepsi will do
thanks for taking time to explain it though
Is it really that important what you call a liquid ? I mean wasn't one of the most popular liquids ever on this thread, one that was voted NET of the year, turn out not to be a NET at all ?
I think defining and clarifying the terms we use in this thread is a legitimate conversation here. Maybe not important, but possibly helpful for some. Pretty normal type of discussion in most hobbies.
Me neither, especially since our perception of a liquid is based at least partially on how the vendor classifies it ! And some vendors in this industry are not glowing examples of openness and transparency now, are they ?
I suppose you are right, but if it's taken to an extreme it might be seen as a little self important, almost as if we are appointing ourselves the guardians of NETdom, and it risks alienating some newbies who might be using " incorrect " terms.
Edit : What i'm trying to say is that it's one thing to state " i consider x to be a NET and y a hybrid " and a little different to make a declaration.
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It thus became eligible for 2014's best controversy category. Sounds like a good marketing strategy if you ask me. I suspect 2015 will see it gain back it's NET status and win the Best Comeback Award.
Of course a well defined definition is important if we are going to use those terms consistently. Otherwise we couldn't know if each of us were really talking about the same thing or not.
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