Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

[mikepetro]

Y
Types of nicotine base liquid

That was a very interesting read........

ETA: Funny, they were asking the EXACT same questions back then, seems like in 6 years there would be some answers already.

 

[Rossum]

That's a Tough one.

Because I have read posts where People say that there Nicotine Base tastes more Harsh over (Room Temp) time without a Darkening of Colour. And I have read posts where People say their Nicotine Base has changed Colour, but the was No Difference in Taste.

Taste is All so Subjective.

Yeah, and unless you do a true "Blind" test where the subjects cannot see the color of the nic, it's going to be nearly impossible to get any objective data correlating color change (due to oxidation) with nic that no longer tastes "fresh".

I know I like my nic as clear and colorless as possible.

BTW - Have you ever heard of a Nicotine Base turning a Faint Pink Colour?

The closest I've seen to pinkish nic was one of the samples I got for the "blind comparison". It was the "A" samples here in this pic:

 

[Rossum]

I'm wondering if repeated cycles of freezing and unthawing might have some adverse effect on the nicotine base...

We probably shouldn't use that terminology. Although we mostly store nic base in the freezer, it remains liquid the whole time, so there's no phase change or crystallization involved as there would be with something that actually freezes.

Although your question is interesting, answering it would require a third identical sample that gets cycled in and out of the freezer regularly, and that's something I'm not prepared to do. I just spent $80 on additional samples, but only two of each kind, plus there are times when I'm away from the location I'm doing all this for weeks at a time.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Maybe that's where I saw 'pink.'

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, and unless you do a true "Blind" test where the subjects cannot see the color of the nic, it's going to be nearly impossible to get any objective data correlating color change (due to oxidation) with nic that no longer tastes "fresh".

I know I like my nic as clear and colorless as possible.

True.

A Double Blind test so that No Colour can be seen (I think there is a Pun in there somewhere?) would be the way to go.

And as a User of a Lot of Unflavored and HOF, I too like my Nicotine to be Clear and Colourless also. But that is more of a Visual Bias.

Because if the Nicotine Base is Clean and Relatively Tasteless, I suppose it could be Opaque Black and it wouldn't matter. Albeit, somewhat Disturbing to use.

 

[zoiDman]

ETA: Funny, they were asking the EXACT same questions back then, seems like in 6 years there would be some answers already.

Yeah... You would think so.

But then again, I can remember Threads about at what Temperature VG breaks down at? And are our Atomizers even Reaching those Temperatures?

So I guess the Wheel just keeps Turning. And sooner or Later, it goes around another Full Circle.

 

[mikepetro]

Yeah... You would think so.

But then again, I can remember Threads about at what Temperature VG breaks down at? And are our Atomizers even Reaching those Temperatures?

So I guess the Wheel just keeps Turning. And sooner or Later, it goes around another Full Circle.

Yep, those were asked in that thread 6 years ago too.
WTF, we know damn good and well many of these questions have been researched thoroughly, those really in the know are just keeping it all close to the vest.

 

[zoiDman]

Yep, those were asked in that thread 6 years ago too.
..., we know damn good and well many of these questions have been researched thoroughly, those really in the know are just keeping it all close to the vest.

Yeah... Maybe that is a Good Thing. I dunno?

---

Hey here is a Question.

Has the Nicotine we use all been Chemically Extract from Tobacco using the Same Process? Or are the Multiple ways that Nicotine can be Derived that are cost effective in the Nicotine Base Market?

 

[ronmack]

I have the few liters of my nic in the freezer except a bottle that I'm making my mixes from and I keep that in a brown 2 oz Boston round dripper bottle top shelf in the fridge, and it's pink but tastes clean, when it doesn't taste acceptable down the drain it will go.

 

[ronmack]

Yeah, and unless you do a true "Blind" test where the subjects cannot see the color of the nic, it's going to be nearly impossible to get any objective data correlating color change (due to oxidation) with nic that no longer tastes "fresh".

I know I like my nic as clear and colorless as possible.


The closest I've seen to pinkish nic was one of the samples I got for the "blind comparison". It was the "A" samples here in this pic:

If I'm going to do a test it will be with a little sample size not 2-4 ounces worth.

 

[mhertz]

[...]
Hey here is a Question.

Has the Nicotine we use all been Chemically Extract from Tobacco using the Same Process? Or are the Multiple ways that Nicotine can be Derived that are cost effective in the Nicotine Base Market?

I'm no expert, but few use a special non-chemical method(cxtc) and most the "normal" methods with heptane or whatever solvent, I think it's maybe called liquid-liquid extraction or something but again not certain. I believe where they differ is the after-purification steps and how many, done post-extraction, e.g. I read that alchem introduced additional purification on top of the normally done, to highten purity for there nicselect, but I would think most others do the same by now or maybe even better who knows. Sorry, i'm not in the know so probably shouldn't have posted anything...

 

[mikepetro]

Types of nicotine base liquid

We haven't yet (but plan to once we have the inhouse GC/MS up and running,) run repeated tests on samples as they age, and exposed to different factors (light, heat, oxygen,) to compare the results over time.

Did he ever post anything further on this?

 

[NGAHaze]

I'm no expert, but few use a special non-chemical method(cxtc) and most the "normal" methods with heptane or whatever solvent, I think it's maybe called liquid-liquid extraction or something but again not certain.

I read an article about tobacco processing awhile back that indicated most extraction was done using high pressure steam distillation. That said however, I am unsure how dated that information was so it may not be the case any longer.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm no expert, but few use a special non-chemical method(cxtc) and most the "normal" methods with heptane or whatever solvent, I think it's maybe called liquid-liquid extraction or something but again not certain. I believe where they differ is the after-purification steps and how many, done post-extraction, e.g. I read that alchem introduced additional purification on top of the normally done, to highten purity for there nicselect, but I would think most others do the same by now or maybe even better who knows. Sorry, i'm not in the know so probably shouldn't have posted anything...

I read an article about tobacco processing awhile back that indicated most extraction was done using high pressure steam distillation. That said however, I am unsure how dated that information was so it may not be the case any longer.

The reason I ask was if basically All the Nicotine that we use in our Nicotine Bases is Derived using the same Process, then we have a Relative Baseline. And questions about Darkening & Taste might be more related to Purity in the Processing?

But if there are Multiple Processes to obtain Nicotine from Tobacco, and we Don't know which Process a given Nicotine was obtained by, then it would seem Difficult to make inferences about why One Nicotine is Turns a Colour (and may or may not Change taste)? And why another Nicotine Base doesn't change Colour (and may or may not Change taste)?

 

[mikepetro]

Someone could get rich right now if they developed a functional home extraction machine for sale.

 

[Eskie]

Mine tends to turn pinkish after awhile. I figured I just needed to wash my syringes better. Well, this explains my 3rd arm....

Mine turns pinkish after a while out at RT too (which is why I only have one 30 ml bottle out to work with for mixing). I did find a tailor who does really nice shirts with a third sleeve that I think fits quite well. I can always send you his contact info.

 

[TJVapes]

For the last couple of weeks I've been using up a 4+ old bottle of nic. After opening and leaving in my cabinet for 4 years, it doesn't seem harsh but obviously oxidized. I might do a flavorless and see how it compares to the bottle I open tomorrow that's been in the freezer since 2012 or 13.

 

[Rossum]

New Samples!

Over the weekend, I ordered some 120ml bottles from VT, hoping that they would arrive in the same clear (#1 PET) plastic in which I've gotten nic from them in the past, so I wouldn't have to open them and expose them to additional air for this experiment. They arrived yesterday (fast!) and indeed, that's exactly what I got:

First is their "Premium" nic in PG:

This about as colorless as any nic I've ever seen.

Next is their "Throat Hit" in VG:

This has a slight straw-colored tint to it, but not much.

Last set their "Throat Hit" in PG:

This is closer in (lack of) color to the Premium. However, I'm a bit skeptical as to the validity of the test with these samples because, unlike the other two sets, the two bottles do not have the same date/lot code.

One more pic of one of each, side-by-side:

I've not opened any of these. All I've done is crank the ("child-proof") even tighter than they were and apply my trademark white electrical tape as an additional seal to the caps, as well as labels, "RT" for the samples that are being kept in a metal box (to keep out light) at room temperature, and "FR" to the ones that are being kept in my freezer.

 

[WillyZee]

New Samples!

Over the weekend, I ordered some 120ml bottles from VT, hoping that they would arrive in the same clear (#1 PET) plastic in which I've gotten nic from them in the past, so I wouldn't have to open them and expose them to additional air for this experiment. They arrived yesterday (fast!) and indeed, that's exactly what I got:

First is their "Premium" nic in PG:

This about as colorless as any nic I've ever seen.

Next is their "Throat Hit" in VG:

This has a slight straw-colored tint to it, but not much.

Last set their "Throat Hit" in PG:

This is closer in (lack of) color to the Premium. However, I'm a bit skeptical as to the validity of the test with these samples because, unlike the other two sets, the two bottles do not have the same date/lot code.

One more pic of one of each, side-by-side:

I've not opened any of these. All I've done is crank the ("child-proof") even tighter than they were and apply my trademark white electrical tape as an additional seal to the caps, as well as labels, "RT" for the samples that are being kept in a metal box (to keep out light) at room temperature, and "FR" to the ones that are being kept in my freezer.

I absolutely love this nicotine ... thanks again Rossum for all the work and expense you've put into testing nicotine for everyone here @ECF.

 

[440BB]

This is exactly what I hope to find from your test - whether bottles direct from the vendor degrade much faster at room temp vs the freezer. No room temperature oxygen introduced to either one. We may all agree that glass is optimal, but PET is most likely how it will arrive, so it is a valuable comparison.

I have a number of unopened PET bottles of nic in the freezer and so far haven't seen any change over as many as three years, but have no point of reference for room temp. Thanks for the test Rossum!