Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

[Rossum]

We may all agree that glass is optimal, but PET is most likely how it will arrive, so it is a valuable comparison.

I have a number of unopened PET bottles of nic in the freezer and so far haven't seen any change over as many as three years, but have no point of reference for room temp.

Yeah, after seeing how well the WL from the first two samples did in the freezer in its original PET bottles for 2-1/2 to 3 years, I'm starting to wonder if transferring to glass -- and the additional aeration that's inevitable in the process -- actually makes sense vs. just leaving it undisturbed in the original plastic.

I guess I would need some more samples to test that...

 

[zoiDman]

...

I guess I would need some more samples to test that...

I think you are going to Need more Shelf Space. LOL.

BTW - How Oxidized do you think the Average Nicotine Base is when DIY-er receives it?

 

[mikepetro]

Yeah, after seeing how well the WL from the first two samples did in the freezer in its original PET bottles for 2-1/2 to 3 years, I'm starting to wonder if transferring to glass -- and the additional aeration that's inevitable in the process -- actually makes sense vs. just leaving it undisturbed in the original plastic.

I guess I would need some more samples to test that...

Yeah, but you wouldnt believe how bad Wiz chastised me for not transferring those PET bottles (his own) to glass.

I stopped using WL a long time ago, but to this day I dont think I have seen any nic that was better packaged for shipping.

 

[Rossum]

BTW - How Oxidized do you think the Average Nicotine Base is when DIY-er receives it?

Good question. My sense is that if it's clear and colorless, the oxidation is minimal, but I can't really prove that.

 

[zoiDman]

Good question. My sense is that if it's clear and colorless, the oxidation is minimal, but I can't really prove that.

The reason I asked is I saw some Nicotine Base once that a friend of mine received. It had a Light Straw tint to it.

It Tasted Fine. And it Never really got any Darker by sitting in a Desk Drawer.

I always Wondered if it was pretty much Fully Oxidized when my Friend got it?

 

[sofarsogood]

May be a chemist will happen along who can explain the mechanics of this oxidation process. I found some papers talking about how tobacco field waste can leach nic into surface water and put stress on the local micro organisms and I've read accounts of pipe smokers saying their decade+ tobacco is still fine, so even if it oxidizes it's a tough persistant chemical in some forms.

So how about around the first of every month take photos of the paiirs and post them here? Watching nicotine change color will take way more patence than watching grass grow. Hopefully while we wait we'll learn some more about nic.

 

[Rossum]

So how about around the first of every month take photos of the paiirs and post them here? Watching nicotine change color will take way more patence than watching grass grow. Hopefully while we wait we'll learn some more about nic.

My schedule bouncing north and south isn't compatible with doing this around the first of every month. It will happen when it happens.

 

[sofarsogood]

My schedule bouncing north and south isn't compatible with doing this around the first of every month. It will happen when it happens.

I just don't want to miss any of the excitement. Seriously, I do appreciate you're doing this experiment. We'lll learn some things and the thread will keep a relevent topic alive over time.

 

[xpen]

@Rossum, can we support your effort with a donation?
Again thanks for what you're doing, much much appreciated [emoji106]

 

[ronmack]

I live in Jacksonville, so I have to wait a few days to get my orders it seems that everyone is south or west of me, thanks for all the researchers not only did they help me when I started they continue to do so

 

[r77r7r]

It won't really add much to this thread ,but I'm going to order a test kit and test the few sample bottles that have been sitting on a closet shelf for 6yrs. Ain't gonna be vaping it tho,lol.

 

[sofarsogood]

Apparently nicotine is not highly perishable. I haven't read into these articles but the guys who know this stuff might know something about what happens to it over time.

The kinetics of nicotine degradation, enzyme activities and genotoxic potential in the characterization of tobacco waste composting (PDF Download Available)

"Most of tobacco stalk is discarded in the field directly and the nicotine in tobacco stalk can easily permeate into the soil, affecting its ecological structure and also polluting the ground water. It is reported that the average nicotine content in tobacco stalk is up to 3800 mg/kg [2] and the nicotine-containing waste would be classified as " toxic and hazardous " , when the concentration of nicotine exceeds 500 mg/kg dry weight [3] . Therefore, it is imperative to remove nicotine from tobacco stalk so as to make better utilization of tobacco stalk. "

"Therefore, it should be noted that nicotine is widely distributed in water, and present in high concentrations. Nicotinecontaminated waste may become a considerable threat to the environment, imperiling the health of human beings and the ecological balance as well, if it is directly discharged into the environment without any treatment (Piotrowska-Cyplik et al., 2009). China leads the world in tobacco production, with an annual production of 3.0 million tons of tobacco leaf and a planting area of 1.365 million hectares in 2010. "

 

[ronmack]

Interesting

 

[Rossum]

@Rossum, can we support your effort with a donation?

I appreciate the thought but that's absolutely not necessary.

 

[Rossum]

I live in Jacksonville, so I have to wait a few days to get my orders it seems that everyone is south or west of me, thanks for all the researchers not only did they help me when I started they continue to do so

Sorry, I replied to the wrong person...

 

[Rossum]

It won't really add much to this thread ,but I'm going to order a test kit and test the few sample bottles that have been sitting on a closet shelf for 6yrs. Ain't gonna be vaping it tho,lol.

Put some in clear glass, take a pic, and show us what it looks like?

 

[r77r7r]

Put some in clear glass, take a pic, and show us what it looks like?

Not sure it would add to this thread as I only ever order low mg nic base ( 24, 48) and I imagine that it doesn't change color much.

I was thinking about titrating to see if there was a significant drop in the nic level. Altho it wasn't initially tested.


I used to order only small amts (low nic)and keep them in my desk the whole time. I was impressed when I found a small bottle with a few drops after a couple yrs and it was still clear and tasteless.

 

[Rossum]

Not sure it would add to this thread as I only ever order low mg nic base ( 24, 48) and I imagine that it doesn't change color much.

OK, that makes it not directly comparable to the 100 mg base I'm "testing" here. But still, 6 years at room temperature is a long time. So assuming this is unflavored base, I'm still quite curious what it looks like.

 

[mikepetro]

Quoting this here because it is related to the topic:

Vermont Vapors (now defunct)

Back in 2010 I did experiments with our 60 mg/ml unflavored and menthol bases, both with and without citric acid and both with and without an argon header (MAP so that no oxygen was in contact with the e-liquid). There were controls (kept in foil at -5 deg. C), ones kept at room temperature in foil and also exposed to light, and ones kept cool (winter temperatures in Vermont) but exposed to artificial and natural light.

After 60 days, the "cleanest" (least odor and discoloration) e-liquids were the controls and those that were kept at winter temperatures exposed to light. The presence of citric acid had no noticeable effect nor did the argon modified atmosphere packaging. Light had a very minor effect. One interesting feature of all samples was that the menthol bases were all more degraded than the unflavored bases.

 

[Rossum]

Next weekend, I expect to head south for a while, and I'm not sure when I'll be back here (quite possibly not until July or August) so...

Time for some updates.

In order to eliminate the possibility that temperature differences affect the optical qualities of nic base, and to avoid frost forming on the "freezer" samples while taking pictures, I put all the samples in a refrigerator last last night. So these were all at the same temperature when photographed.

Unfortunately, the sun is not out today, so the lighting in my "studio" is somewhat dimmer than it has been for previous pictures. In addition, I'm using a real camera here (Canon SL1) rather than my phone.

Let's start with the original WL samples. These are described in Post #1 of this thread:

I'm afraid the refrigerator temperature glass bottles did "fog up" a bit, but at least the effect on both was the same, unlike the last picture in post #19 where the the freezer sample bottle was frosted over while the the room temperature bottle was completely clear.

Have either of them changed color since then? I'm not sure. My perception is the room-temperature sample has indeed darkened a bit more, while changes to the freezer sample are minimal, but there are too many other variables (lighting, camera, etc) to be sure.