Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[MacTechVpr]

Three issues this brings up: a) The path of the legs; proximity of the coil to the coil cup of the top cap, and b) any tails left over after "snipping" the excess wire. You can experience intermittent or shorts with either or all of these resulting in wild swings of resistance, what may appear to be a marginal impedance error or dead circuit. The technique Metalhead describes of fixing the position of the coil in the cup goes a long way to avoiding these problems.

1) Use a guide (drill bit, needle, paperclip, etc.) to position the coil during assembly;
2) Bring the coil down the cup of the assembly as far as necessary to ensure you clear the top-cap!
3) Keep the coil secure using the guide making sure to separate the leads;
4) Insert grommet and pin ensuring the positive lead avoids the cup walls;and,
5) With assembly stable, hold firmly and twist off excess rather than snipping.

Done.

Good luck!

 

[Stabbie]

Five attempts at rebuilding the PT2 loosely following this thread. All attempts resulted in the first several puffs great but quickly diminished to a hot tank and little vapor. My thinking was to dismantle and rebuild. Which I did.

My fifth attempt I think I figured out the problem. I knew my coil and cotton were perfect so I started unscrewing the atty after the vape diminished. I found a film of juice between the atty and the base where it screws in and when I would wipe that off, the vapor production came back up for several puffs, only to diminish again. I thought I was flooding it through the coil and wick but I would not see any evidence of juice build up under the coil.

So I decided that maybe the grommet that separates the wires and goes up into the base of the atty was not seating properly even though I was sure. With the whole atty assembled, I pushed the atty together forcing the rubber grommet piece to squeeze into the atty more. I used as much force as I thought it could handle.

So far that seems to have fixed it mostly. About 24 hours going strong but I just had to clean off juice again. I suspect that it may be seeping through the o-ring also(?).....or maybe it has been the o-ring all along. Any fixes for that? Or thoughts on why I am getting some juice build-up under there?

I used 30 gauge kanthal, 9 wraps on a 1/16 drill bit. I took the coil off the drill bit and fired it up about 3 times with a torch and then put it back on the drill bit for assembly into the atty. This seemed to help keep the coil nice and straight throughout the process otherwise my first attempts the coil seemed to always get 'out-of-whack' by the time I had the cotton wick in place and I always had to mess with it to get the coils even.

Nine wraps with 30 gauge is giving me about 1.8 - 1.9 ohms and I'm using cotton balls for the wick and my current build I did a very thin flavor wick on top of the coil also. (I thought I was flooding it so I wanted a bit of extra cotton to cover the juice holes.)

I am vaping 100% VG juice at 3.6 - 3.7 volts.

Bottom line: almost there, just have to figure out why I end up with juice condensation between the atty and the base.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Have the coil heads changed? I have a 5/64 bit and it won't fit in the groove.

You're absolutely right. A 5/64th (nom. 2mm) won't clear all the way down to the bottom of the cup socket on Protank coil assembly. Either that or I'm buying the wrong coils.

A 1/16th (nom. 1.75mm) will and a 3/64 (nom. 1.5mm) will easily. I know as I wick in place after a short check and test fire using this method. I found out early on that hand winds were too inconsistent without a form and close detail to coil dimension and spacing. Resistance varies too much with a subtle change in tightness or wicking media. So your results are all over the place. That is, if you want a consistent predictable vape.

Use a needle (either under or through) to not disrupt your coils or damage the wick and finish up the assembly!

Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I used 30 gauge kanthal, 9 wraps on a 1/16 drill bit.

Nice!

I started building tables a month in. I'm still marveling at Rip Tripper's PT 15W plus video but uh-uh, not goin there. I've been trying to find the most stable fuss-free wick media coil combo so I'm not spending my life like an obsessed fly fisherman.

I've run an assortment of 28g-30g 10/9 winds with various media. The best results with 0/1 Cotton Square Braid Wick. But all tending to flood at some stage. To me too much wick, not enough air. Most were wound an a 2mm i.d., larger than yours and still I conclude too tight, over saturated. When vaporization diminishes, too cool, the fluid has to go somewhere.

I don't think larger coils are the answer. I'm doing 8-10 wind coils with cotton on RDA's with impressive results that crash and burn on the PT. In fact pulled 'em right out of the Kanger's and into the drips. The problem is airflow. And yes those damned silicone base O-rings. They've got to be snug, not too tight and certainly not stretched. Or you will get wet.

Love the Protank when it's working. Right now I'm vaping a pair with 30AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d. (2.5mm Silica), microcoil =2.2Ω. I can chain these all day as long as I don't press them. But when I do they'll flood for sure. So I rotate. My best vape came a few weeks back with 32AWG, 6/5 1.75mm i.d. (2mm Sil.), tight= 2.2Ω. I'm done with silica and migrating to testing Nextel and Ekowool a second round. The last is starting to look like the winner. But cotton! Always.

Good luck!



p.s. This excellent video follow-up by Rip Trippers on the Protank 2 demonstrates how helpful using a form or guide to stabilize the coil and preserve its shape during assembly.

 

[metalhed73]

My apologies folks, just threw a caliper on the drill bit I use and sure enough it is .0625 or 1/16". The 5/64 is what I use for my rba's and genny's.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[MacTechVpr]

No apologies necessary metalhead. Good job rounding up these techniques on one Protank thread. Impressive.

I wish I would have had your post 4 months ago when I started and had to prove all this stuff by trial and error.

Really good job!

Have a great day.

 

[MacTechVpr]

My developing techniques have really been helped by contributions like vappdivrr's outstanding microcoil build videos for the REO. He acknowledges Rip Tripper's nano coil effort on RT's youtube channel. So I'm sure that they're both watching other's approaches on the internet. It's all good.

 

[Stabbie]

I think I may have found my issue with leaking....not to turn this into a 'my protank is leaking thread' but it is part of my rebuilding....after struggling with this issue for the past 3 days......I finally noticed my coil and wick was twisted a bit during a disassembly.

I recommend making sure your grommet and bottom tube (where the grommet snaps into) is dry during reassembly. Otherwise your coil may twist while screwing the tank onto your battery and opening your wick holes a bit letting too much juice in.

Or simply making sure you do not twist your tank on too tight.

Does that make sense? So when I would screw my tank on....the coil and wick would twist just enough to let too much juice in....when I would unscrew it, it would twist back leaving behind no evidence. And I believe some errant juice around the grommet was acting as a nice slick, sheet of oil.

So far this theory is testing to be correct.

 

[K_Tech]

I think I may have found my issue with leaking....not to turn this into a 'my protank is leaking thread' but it is part of my rebuilding....after struggling with this issue for the past 3 days......I finally noticed my coil and wick was twisted a bit during a disassembly.

I recommend making sure your grommet and bottom tube (where the grommet snaps into) is dry during reassembly. Otherwise your coil may twist while screwing the tank onto your battery and opening your wick holes a bit letting too much juice in.

Or simply making sure you do not twist your tank on too tight.

Does that make sense? So when I would screw my tank on....the coil and wick would twist just enough to let too much juice in....when I would unscrew it, it would twist back leaving behind no evidence. And I believe some errant juice around the grommet was acting as a nice slick, sheet of oil.

So far this theory is testing to be correct.

Makes perfect sense. Alignment can be pretty critical.

 

[MacTechVpr]

If nothing else Protank's and Kanger's in general are leaky. Of these the 3TS is the least. Damn thing just goes like an Eveready. Just can't live with that clear drip tip. But I always have one set up on a Magneto. It's the sure fire hit and my reliable morning wake-up vape with the most consistent flavor. Even better than a stable cargo/mech.

Yes, Protank's are fidgety. That's why alignment is critical. Even how far down the slot you go with the coil axis depending on VG/PG and wick media. A little oil slick will definitely mess you up. I keep an air tank at my workspace. But no amount of blowing out heads can guarantee they're absolutely dry. You'll run across one sooner or later. Or make one when you seed the wick. It happens, no matter how perfect the coil.

Not to make this a ceramic thread...while I'm putting cotton on every clearo and drip I have, I'm testing XC-116 and Eko on the Kangers because I want the least fuss. The minute I run into some dry vapor or gurgle I know I'll inevitably find a wet spot. Removing the tank for inspection I put a condom on the tip to catch any waste from tip, flip the tank and remove the base. Then I take off, dry and blow out the chimney. Placing a small piece of paper towel over the coil cup I blow it out (while on the base) from the positive pole side. It empties any pooling liquid in the lower cup and drains most of the juice from the wick. You'll immediately see if the wick is scorched. If so, replace the flavor wick. You can dab off or briefly burn the coil here if need by with Nextel or Eko. Recap. Dry off all around the cup and base, top and bottom. Refill and dry off the inside of the smokestack with a Q-tip from the drip end. Reassemble and you're good to go. Took a few seconds. Don't forget to recheck your resistance. That's where you'll likely know you introduced any misalignment.

If you struggle with the gurgle it only gets worse. And so will your vaping experience. A few seconds to clear up and you'll have hours of enjoyment. Better to solve the problem when it happens. Often tanks settle when you do this like nothing happened and they ultimately "season".

If the problem persists, it's easy with Nextel and Eko — it's into the drink. Dry burn thereafter and you've got a virtually new head. And I'm finding that once these wicks break in they're a lot more stable than fresh.

Good luck all!

 

[markallmon]

I apologize for my ignorance in advance. I am fairly new to vapeing, but I would imagine this would be a great deal cheaper than buying a whole new head each time. Where can you get the coil wire? Do most vape shops stock it, is it a common electrical supply store item, or will I have to order it online? Also, everything is pretty straightforward, but I'm kinda losing you when you say "one wire outside, one wire through the insulator". I just can't quite visualize how to route the wire ends properly....

 

[dylan199]

Glad I found this thread! Bought 25' of 32ga Kanthol and a bag of cotton balls. Cost around $5.00.

Used the 1/16" bit, wrapped wire 5x, rolled cotton to fit in coil, checked ohms (1.8), hit fire and holy ..... Whole new vaping experience.

 

[metalhed73]

I apologize for my ignorance in advance. I am fairly new to vapeing, but I would imagine this would be a great deal cheaper than buying a whole new head each time. Where can you get the coil wire? Do most vape shops stock it, is it a common electrical supply store item, or will I have to order it online? Also, everything is pretty straightforward, but I'm kinda losing you when you say "one wire outside, one wire through the insulator". I just can't quite visualize how to route the wire ends properly....

Kanthal wire can be had at most vape shops but will likely be cheaper online, I bought a 100' roll of 32awg from Temco for about $8. Many people will buy bulk kanthal from ebay also but I prefer to go right to the "source" with temco.

As far as wire routing, when you go to insert the rubber insulator one wire will go through the hole in the middle and one will be outside the rubber insulator. The one on the outside is "trapped" between the metal head base and the insulator, the other will be "trapped" between the bottom pin and the inside hole of the rubber insulator.

 

[magicmyst]

@metalhed73 and everyone else on this thread- thanks! I am so tired of wasting time trying to "clean" my heads and am going to try this.

So what's the consensus on the kanthal gauge? 28, 30, or 32? It seems to be different strokes for different folks, but I'm about to buy some, but not sure which. I'm using 3.7 volt EVOD batteries that usually do best with 1.8ohm stock coils.

Also, I've got a big ball of the famous Peaches & Cream Cotton yarn. Can I use that, or would I be better off working with cotton balls?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Since I'm doing Protank coils tonight, I did one for ya. Thank me later.

You'll find my suggestions/instructions for assembly earlier in this thread and elsewhere.

You want to go 30 ga. for your wind (1.8Ω), 7/6 turns in a micro coil. I get 1.78Ω on a symmetrical install, i.e. perfectly vertical opposed legs. Use a 3/43 (~1.75mm) jeweller's screw driver [kit]. And for God's sake stay away from silica. Both your suggestions are fine but I don't think the yarn is going to fit this wind. Larger coil diameters are going to effect your resistance. You may have to go to 28 or down to 32. Try XC-116 or 1.5mm Ekowool instead. The first will give you flavor close to what you experience with cotton and vape cleaner. The call's still out on vapor with both in a Protank.

I recently got four days out of a similar twist (@ 2.2Ω) softly blowing out the head and delicately dabbing the coil to clean it, torching the flavor wick or replacing it on three separate tanks using Nextel XC-116. All were vaped hard and continuously and often chained. The third day there were color variations in the Johnson Creek TC blend I use which is 5%PG right now. So I would say you will get at least two solid good days before you have to replace the heads. The call is still out for me on whether to bother cleaning. It's so easy to just dry burn the coil alone, put in another wick and top wick. Less than 3/4" of Nextel, pennies. So far I can only do this succesfully two or three times with a coil. They start to develop inconsistencies with handling. The resistance and performance is affected and so is flavor.

Mind you this recommendation is for unadulterated flavor. When you do swap heads it's a full clean of the tank, fresh fill. I fudge a lot on this and can go out a day more on some tanks that are better behaved. So that's it for a Protank. Three days if you hit it heavy. I have tanks including Protanks that have worked flawlessly for weeks with Boba's and Tribeca but they're not hit continuously. Talkin' your main vape here. You're going to rotate three or more recipes more or less evenly you're going to do great on 30 ga, 1.8Ω Nextel, Cotton or Eko.

So that's the sum of it after 4 months experimentation. You are the first beneficiary.




Good luck!

 

[magicmyst]

Thanks, MacTechVpr, for passing on the results of your research, and for putting together a 1.8Ω wrap just for me! So, what is the difference between a 30 gauge 6/7x wrap on a 3/43 (~1.75mm) jeweler's screw driver and a 32 gauge 5x wrap on a 1/16" drill bit ?

I also have a question about dry burning. I understand not to dry burn a cotton wick, but what about dry burning a wickless coil or a silica coil/wick? Some have said that dry burning burns the insulator, resulting in burnt flavor, even with clean coils and wicks. Here's what happened to me:

In my last attempt at cleaning & dry burning, I took about 20+ evod and protank heads, pulled the stems and flavor wicks, soaked and rinsed repeatedly in warm water, thoroughly dried. I then rotated between 4 batteries, giving each coil about a 3 second burn 'till it glowed, and repeated this about 5 times. After they cooled, I put a clean cotton flavor wick on each, and put them back together. The result? I've gotten no more than a full EVOD tank out of any of them before they started producing burnt hits, so I'm wondering if I may have burned the insulators? And if I recoil these heads with cotton, are they still going to go burnt on me?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks, MacTechVpr, for passing on the results of your research, and for putting together a 1.8Ω wrap just for me! So, what is the difference between a 30 gauge 6/7x wrap on a 3/43 (~1.75mm) jeweler's screw driver and a 32 gauge 5x wrap on a 1/16" drill bit ?

You're welcome.

I'm going to try to address the first part tonight, get to the rest tomorrow. In short, on your first question the difference between the two above coil windings is — 0.184593 mm. There's also going to be a difference in the coil resistance but I'd have to compute it. I know it doesn't seem like much but it matters.

The 3/43 instrument screw drivers I own have an o.d. of about 1.75 mm (+/-.03mm). The o.d. of a 1/16 drill bit is 1.5875. The difference of 0.1625 mm can mean that it may not be practicable to use certain wick materials. For example, Nextel XC-116 can very easily be hand fed into a coil resulting from the use of either size bit without breaking up. Ekowool of 1.5 mm may be less reliably inserted into the 1.75 coil but not the 1/16" coil without more sophisticated methods to maintain the integrity of the wick. I'm not going to post how here (with the coil in place). While simple, it's difficult to demonstrate without a series of pic's or video. Maybe in future.

It breaks down to utility. How much effort are you willing to subject yourself to in your maintenance scheme vs. potential benefits to flavor and performance? Let's face it we need to reduce this to a pleasurable activity otherwise we're just replacing one ritual (smoking) with another. At least that's how I've come to view it.

Briefly on the rest, I don't dry burn any wick but Nextel. Everything including the preceding scorches affecting flavor. Nextel because of its high heat tolerance considerably less so, but still. I dry burn coil elements only to clean and rejoin/realign as best possible. I popped my first coil last night during one such burn after 4 wick rebuilds. This I hope may be the low end of life for the elements. No, I install wick in place only. I prefer not to do any dry burns of wicking media. I've concluded it's too much trouble and I'm about to ditch the whole notion of "cleaning" as delusion. A Nextel wick will survive a splash in the drink but really doesn't perform the same to me. Neither do carto's or any other so-called "washable" component.

Now mind you the past four months a great deal of my experience has come from testing coils with Silica. The stuff is nasty. It breaks apart, gets dirty with darker juices. Changing the flavor wick helps some as you top off a tank. And you can see the extent of scorching as you go. My suggestion, steer clear.

So I decided to determine the most expedient, cost-effective methodology for the Kanger's first. And I feel a heck of a lot more comfortable that I'm hitting the sweet-spot with some consistency lately using this approach.

Just for ha-ha's I'm doing a bunch of 1.8Ω coil tests with different media tonight. All good. But not my favorite zone. I'm more comfortable at 2.1-2.2Ω, 6-6.5W for my main VG flavors and hardware. A little bit cooler and a tad more flavorful to me.

Well, good night and good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Sorry metalhead if it seems I hijacked your thread. I think you and many others are right about cotton. Overall probably healthier and consistent in flavor than silica. It is a pain though if you vape one or just a couple of devices. Requires changing out wicks too frequently in order to maintain the taste experience.

Right now I'm transitioning out of the mass produced tanks. I've always thought that RDA's were going to be the answer and I'm running five so far. They're all cotton except for a Vision Eternity, one of my first acquisitions.

I started adding to this thread to provide some context and kind of point the discussion towards getting coils right. Coil structure and consistency have as much to do with the flavor result as the very excellent method you posted for assembly.

Again I wish I had the benefit of your post from day one.

Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've heard oft and on that a 1.5mm wick is the best for the Protank. That observation seems to be dead on. Last night I tested Nextel XC-116 inside of a 1/16" i.d. coil for the first time (with a single XC-116 flavor wick). The zMax R3 and eVic were the platforms, with 6-6.5W at about 1.8Ω for both. I was concerned that it is a very precise fit, snug for the wick. I had been surprised how well the wick runs loose in even a 2mm coil. So I was a bit skeptical that it would not choke as it is a dense woven material. However, it is perfection for the Protank. I'm talking the original Pyrex which is more fidgety than the newer iterations.

So it boils down to this whether for the older versions or new — it's about coil diameter, symmetry and proper alignment.

Now about cotton. It's ideal in so many ways particularly for its flavor producing benefits.

The problem that I have with cotton is how do you make a cotton wick with the precision that the Protank requires?

When I started I struggled watching all these videos on how to make winds from Grimm Green's sloppy builds to some of the excellent examples on this board and youtube. What baffled me was the all important question — how do they get the damned wicks in those small coils?

I laughed at all the video cutaways and changing the subject in thread discussions.

But for the Protank you really need a solution that will allow you to thread the coil in place. Alignment is critical, if you want to stay reliably close to your resistance target. And that last part is key. Current or wattage is what's right for you. Your juice selection and flavor preferences. For me that's 2.2Ω. That's why a straight simple answer for a newb like me was difficult.

So I'm kinda liking your cotton yarn notion Magic. Find a yarn that works for you taste wise and based on its size a coil diameter that complements it without choking it, as I've discovered with Nextel.

You need a wick material and size that you can simply install in the optimal coil for your vape.

I would presume that's going to mean not straying too far from a 1.58mm coil, although the PT seems to handle 2mm fairly well.

Ekowool is a great top flavor wick. But too difficult to install for most people inside the ideal of 1/16". To be fair I've never tested the threaded 1.5 which I think comes closer to an 2mm diameter anyway. Too tight a fit inside a 16th, so it possibly might throttle in wicking producing a tight draw, drier hit. I'll get 'round to it but pleased for now that gurgles and leaking have ended.

So for me I'm liking Nextel as the Protank solution. I'd like the heads to survive for more than a day if I press them. I'm having too much fun with cotton on my assortment of drippers to fuss so damned much with what should be a simple tank solution.

Best of luck!

 

[metalhed73]

Sorry metalhead if it seems I hijacked your thread. I think you and many others are right about cotton. Overall probably healthier and consistent in flavor than silica. It is a pain though if you vape one or just a couple of devices. Requires changing out wicks too frequently in order to maintain the taste experience.

Right now I'm transitioning out of the mass produced tanks. I've always thought that RDA's were going to be the answer and I'm running five so far. They're all cotton except for a Vision Eternity, one of my first acquisitions.

I started adding to this thread to provide some context and kind of point the discussion towards getting coils right. Coil structure and consistency have as much to do with the flavor result as the very excellent method you posted for assembly.

Again I wish I had the benefit of your post from day one.

Good luck!

Hijack away, this thread is about getting good info out there and you are simply adding more great info. Been a little busy as of late and have not been able to keep up on this one so I am glad that someone keeps it rolling.