Should ecf encourage vaping among neversmokers?

[Lessifer]

I think the Sample Size you used to reach that conclusion is Too Small.

True, but you can see the same sentiment all over this forum, and facebook. Non-vapers already treat us like smokers, and there are very few vapers who will fight that classification.

 

[Lessifer]

Curious why you say that...

I think overall in that thread there was some measure of shock that someone purchased 18mg e juice and began sub ohm vaping it (only way to take in 20ml in a shorter amount of time) who had never smoked simply because most vape shops ask the person questions to find out what nicotine level the person needs, and/or with so many choices most people ask/find out what level of nicotine is best for them - prior to buying.

Heck when I went to my local vape shop here I was hard pressed to get them to sell my mtl low wattage vaping husband who is trying to kick a 40 year long smoking habit 18mg nicotine e juice, and they didn't do so until I explained to them why it wasn't too high a mg for him.

So how this guy managed to get slip through the cracks is anyone's guess really. I was legitimately worried about him - as well as shocked.

I think most of us in that thread were feeling the same thing, can you imagine not having a tolerance and taking in that much nicotine?

It was less demonizing him for vaping, more concern.. (with the exception of the trollers)

The "trollers" are one thing, though they're likely right. I've been nic sic from sampling 12mg liquids in a sub ohm dripper before. I find it highly unlikely that anyone would get to 20ml before getting sick, if they're not already used to nicotine.

The undercurrent has been here all along, but it feels like I'm seeing more of it lately.

"I only vape where I can smoke"
"Why would you pick up a bad habit you don't need?"
"Why would you start an addiction to nicotine?"
"Nicotine is still highly addictive"
"It's safer than smoking, but we still don't know"

The way many vapers act does not jibe with what we actually do know about vaping. It's like people are rejecting and accepting the propaganda at the same time. Or rather rejecting the propaganda while holding onto the belief that it just might be true after all.

 

[zoiDman]

True, but you can see the same sentiment all over this forum, and facebook. Non-vapers already treat us like smokers, and there are very few vapers who will fight that classification.

I just Don't see this. In fact, I see the Direct Opposite.

But I'm not into FB. I have Enough Drama in my life.

 

[Opinionated]

The "trollers" are one thing, though they're likely right. I've been nic sic from sampling 12mg liquids in a sub ohm dripper before. I find it highly unlikely that anyone would get to 20ml before getting sick, if they're not already used to nicotine.

The undercurrent has been here all along, but it feels like I'm seeing more of it lately.

"I only vape where I can smoke"
"Why would you pick up a bad habit you don't need?"
"Why would you start an addiction to nicotine?"
"Nicotine is still highly addictive"
"It's safer than smoking, but we still don't know"

The way many vapers act does not jibe with what we actually do know about vaping. It's like people are rejecting and accepting the propaganda at the same time. Or rather rejecting the propaganda while holding onto the belief that it just might be true after all.

I DO only vape where smoking is allowed. I also ask if it's okay with someone near me who I take note is a non smoker, before I vape.

I'm not into offending people, I think it's common courtesy. If someone went to light up some funny stuff near me I'd be offended and certainly go as far as fast as possible from the area, im also disgusted by farting.

Would be nice if everyone had common courtesy and common decency. I offer to others what I would myself prefer.

I believe being the obnoxious offender is not the way to make vaping more acceptable to mainstream non smokers. I believe advocacy is talking to people, letting them know you vape, answering questions and giving good information concerning it, not blowing clouds in non smokers faces.

When there is a kid who has never smoked before, I go into "mom" mode. Can't help it I will tell them same as I would tell my own kids - and what I say will depend upon what the situation is.

Is vaping better than not vaping? No.. nor is it the same. Is vaping better than smoking? Yes.

I will tell anyone that. But first, kids need to know it's better to breathe clean air. Second they need to know they shouldn't vape high levels of nicotine, if any at all. Lastly, they need to know we will help them and answer questions if they need.

In that order.

 

[Lessifer]

I DO only vape where smoking is allowed. I also ask if it's okay with someone near me who I take note is a non smoker, before I vape.

I'm not into offending people, I think it's common courtesy. If someone went to light up some funny stuff near me I'd be offended and certainly go as far as fast as possible from the area, im also disgusted by farting.

Would be nice if everyone had common courtesy and common decency. I offer to others what I would myself prefer.

I believe being the obnoxious offender is not the way to make vaping more acceptable to mainstream non smokers. I believe advocacy is talking to people, letting them know you vape, answering questions and giving good information concerning it, not blowing clouds in non smokers faces.

When there is a kid who has never smoked before, I go into "mom" mode. Can't help it I will tell them same as I would tell my own kids - and what I say will depend upon what the situation is.

Is vaping better than not vaping? No.. nor is it the same. Is vaping better than smoking? Yes.

I will tell anyone that.

Yeah, I didn't really mean you, you seem thoughtful and can understand nuance. Just take this particular poll for instance.

I've seen repeatedly, vapers who are horrified at the idea that a non-smoker would pick up vaping, let alone with nicotine! There are still plenty of vapers who see nicotine as "the most addictive substance known to man."

ETA: as for vaping where smoking is allowed, I believe there is a huge difference between being courteous of others, and self restricting to only vaping in smoking areas.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Would be nice if everyone had common courtesy and common decency. I offer to others what I would myself prefer.

...

 

[Lessifer]

I just Don't see this. In fact, I see the Direct Opposite.

But I'm not into FB. I have Enough Drama in my life.

"You never smoked, but decided to grab some e-liquid formulated with a large amount of a very addictive chemical just for grins and giggles?"

"What were you thinking? You don't need ANY nicotine in a vape if you never smoked. You may need to see a Dr. after vaping that much. Hope you feel better."

"If you're a never smoker best to stick with 0 mg/ml nicotine e liquids."

"Soooo you were smart enuf to avoid cigarettes to the age of 29. Why the sudden interest in dumping unnecessary foreign substances into your pristine healthy lungs. Vaping was created as a smoking cessation aid not a toy. Throw your new toys away and forget about it."


Sure, there are varying degrees, and it's not every vaper, but consider how little of the population vapes, and let's say half actually fight the idea that vaping is just slightly better than smoking. That's not a very big number.

 

[Opinionated]

Yeah, I didn't really mean you, you seem thoughtful and can understand nuance. Just take this particular poll for instance.

I've seen repeatedly, vapers who are horrified at the idea that a non-smoker would pick up vaping, let alone with nicotine! There are still plenty of vapers who see nicotine as "the most addictive substance known to man."

ETA: as for vaping where smoking is allowed, I believe there is a huge difference between being courteous of others, and self restricting to only vaping in smoking areas.

I agree with you that as vapers and advocates of vaping that more people need to learn a bit more .

However, this is much like society as a whole. How many people address the situation as the situation and see the various nuisances? Not many.

And, with only a 10 year history of vaping and the evolution thereof, there is still a lot we need to learn about vaping itself therefore you will find difference of opinion based on an incomplete collection of data for modern vaping. We have learned, and will continue to learn more as we go.. you will find different approaches to this as a result.

Let's face it, I've been vaping for three years and I'm still assessing how to internalize and best communicate what we do know against what we might not know, so you can't expect everyone to be at the exact same place in their own understanding at different periods of their own processes.

It's difficult therefore, to make blanket statements as a result.

I do understand your points however, as well as what concerns you.

 

[SK1LL]

One person who was considering trying smoking, an experienced chewing tobacco user.. ended up getting a brand new in box ehpro KFL+ a big bottle of juice and a 100' roll of 28g kanthal from me bundle of encouragement

Unfortunately had they not had the convenience to ask me about ecigs they probably would have gone to the stinkies

Touchy subject though, I would feel bad if I somehow were to influence someone into trying something they might have otherwise never been exposed to

 

[zoiDman]

...

Sure, there are varying degrees, and it's not every vaper, but consider how little of the population vapes, and let's say half actually fight the idea that vaping is just slightly better than smoking. That's not a very big number.

But who's to say that 1/2 is the Actual Population? Isn't that drawing a Conclusion based on a Guess?

BTW - You should have Included this one also...

"So... You are 29. You have Never Smoked. And you have Never Vaped. But for some reason you decide to Vape 20ml of 18mg/ml.

Was there some Drinking going on?"

Sick and Feel Like Puking After Vaping

BTW2 - I wonder How Many people considered that thread even to be a Real Thread? Or just Trolling?

 

[Opinionated]

BTW2 - I wonder How Many people considered that thread even to be a Real Thread? Or just Trolling?

Lots, that's why it was closed.

Admin says we have to treat each thread as if it was a non trolling poster no matter how far fetched. So because of the this is a trolling thread accusations, admin closed the thread.

 

[Lessifer]

But who's to say that 1/2 is the Actual Population? Isn't that drawing a Conclusion based on a Guess?

BTW - You should have Included this one also...

"So... You are 29. You have Never Smoked. And you have Never Vaped. But for some reason you decide to Vape 20ml of 18mg/ml.

Was there some Drinking going on?"

Sick and Feel Like Puking After Vaping

BTW2 - I wonder How Many people considered that thread even to be a Real Thread? Or just Trolling?

Well, I saw yours as more a reaction to the volume + level of nicotine, so I didn't include it.

Yes, it's a guess, as part of an expressed opinion, not to be taken as an actual survey result of a wide population of vapers. It's a feeling I've been getting more and more while reading posts here, and elsewhere.

 

[zoiDman]

Well, I saw yours as more a reaction to the volume + level of nicotine, so I didn't include it.

Yes, it's a guess, as part of an expressed opinion, not to be taken as an actual survey result of a wide population of vapers. It's a feeling I've been getting more and more while reading posts here, and elsewhere.

Hey I dunno Les?

It's just Very Hard to say what any True Population Thinks/Believes. Because like just about Everything in the World, there just Isn't One Size that Fits all.

My views on Non-Smokers trying e-Cigarettes are pretty Strong. But that Isn't to say that under the Right Circumstance(s), that I wouldn't give Advice that could be perceived as Encouraging a Non-Smoker to try an e-Cigarette.

But I Flatly Reject the Idea that there is a Significant amount of Vaper's who perceive that Vaping is the Same as Smoking.

And the Arguments I have seen that are supposed to Support this notion I see is Subjective Assumptions of what other people think. Which I feel are in Most cases, is an Incorrect Assumption.

 

[Opinionated]

Well, I saw yours as more a reaction to the volume + level of nicotine, so I didn't include it.

Yes, it's a guess, as part of an expressed opinion, not to be taken as an actual survey result of a wide population of vapers. It's a feeling I've been getting more and more while reading posts here, and elsewhere.

While you see vaping as an area of advocacy (as do we all) you might also like to lend your voice in how we all can better advocate for vaping.

We don't always offer up all the information we could, sometimes we only reply about one aspect of an OP, other times our reply is reactionary, others we could simply give more information.

Usually our posts build upon what each answer is speaking to, and by the end of a thread all aspects were covered. It's not always that way of course, but it often is.

When you see an area where you believe the response is incorrect,an area of advocacy for you might be to PM that respondent some studies, some discussions on that topic and more.. as well as give your best answer.

Watch the forums you think some of these posts will come up and try to answer more quickly than others when your online. You won't catch every one but you can more readily set the tone to many threads..

Just a thought.

 

[mikepetro]

i'm pretty sure non users regard both smoking and vaping as visible uninvited aerosols.

There is a huge difference between a considerate vaper semi-stealth vaping, and a vaper blowing a cumulus cloud in the middle of a crowd. I stealth (NOT hide) when in public areas with others near me. I have never once gotten a complaint.

 

[Lord_Mayhem]

To prevent a never smoker from smoking, yes. If it was around when I was 15 and started smoking, it would have been better to have picked up a vape instead. JMHO

I've read teen smoking rates and marijuana use has dropped dramatically since vaping became popular. Coincidence?

 

[Rossum]

I've read teen smoking rates and ......... use has dropped dramatically since vaping became popular. Coincidence?

Correlation does not equal causation, but it does warrant investigation whether there might be a causal relationship.

 

[RichardIII]

I think we should do nothing more than educate. Even with smokers. To sit there and preach isn't gonna make a difference all we can do is lay out the facts and let the person make their own decision.

 

[stols001]

Interesting thread, I have tended to be pretty anti never smokers taking up vaping, mainly based on what starting smoking at a young age did to my life. But, some of the posts are really making me rethink my decision, especially if vaping may save a person from starting smoking, as I REALLY do believe that vaping is a much less harmful option. I think I will be more likely to just post straight facts on threads, rather than to try and convince and not convince.

I will say (until time has proven otherwise) that we don't have true longitudinal data on vaping though, because it is factually true (even though research is pointing to the fact that it is far less harmful than smoking.) But, I will be likely to be less rabid on the subject....

Anna

 

[HazyShades]

Should ecf encourage vaping among neversmokers?

It is my impression that Oliver and ECF represent, promote, and defend vaping primarily as a smoking cessation tool. In fact I think that encouraging non smokers to vape would be merchandising or pushing a product for profit and that would diminish ECF's effectiveness in representing vapers as well as compromise ECF's credibility in defending vaping as a smoking cessation tool.