So my doc doesn't like vaping

[MikeyConti]

All my doctors are great and have nothing bad to say about vaping. Iv been to so many Specialists growing up that I know more about my health and body than a random doctor I have to visit every now and then. Same goes to Pharmacies, just because they work around medicine all day doesn't mean their Experts in EVERY one/type.

But anyway, no matter what you tell the Doctor, if her mind is made about vaping being bad she will always pull the trump card on you that she went to Medical School and has a Degree, and YOU do not.

I would tell her shes wrong(Give her facts in printouts if you want) and then not waste anymore breath with her about it.

Btw Thanks for your Service!

 

[Twicehorn]

Ask her if that is her best, real-good advice. Kind of like the low-fat, high carb diet that gave everyone diabeetus and obesity. Medical professionals can be dummies just like everyone else. And in some cases, moreso because of their arrogance.

 

[Woofer]

Then by all means, stop seeking medical treatment. All if you that think you are smarter than your doctor because of what you read on the internet can treat yourselves.

I'll ask a plumber or scientist what they think. Then I will decide. Thanks for your advice.

 

[BigEgo]

So I had my regular checkup at the VA yesterday. When the doc asked me about any changes since my last visit six months ago, I told her I had quit smoking by switching to vaping. She then immediately chimed in with "popcorn lung" and that ecigs have also been linked to pulmonary fibrosis.

There have been no cases of popcorn lung associated with vaping (though it is a theoretical risk with diacetyl liquids).

2) I would like to see her sources for the notion that e-cigs are linked to pulmonary fibrosis. I have never heard that and I am pretty sure she is full of s**t. If it were true, it would be national front-page news.

 

[Jman8]

IMO, don't argue with your doctor. Vapers cherry pick the studies that support their argument. But we are hardly scientists that can decide what the truth really is.

If you develop the ailments they suggest, then they treat it. If not, it's a non issue.

@lpboyle
I'm around 80% in agreement with this. 20% of me feels it would be worth your while to present counter arguments.

But 80% of me is feeling like - I don't see how the doctor's opinion could possibly matter. It's just advice, and because a) you can't prove it doesn't while b) the doctor can't prove it does, then really no one's opinion will change. If you like the doctor otherwise, then I say just go with "we agree to disagree" and continue vaping, as may be desired.

But if the doctor wanted to push the point, then I'd be way more inclined to present counter arguments. A doctor pushing this particular point ceases to be a scientist in that moment. The link has not been established by science with regards to vaping, and so it truly would be losing battle for any intellectual type, regardless of their vocation / expertise. In my strong opinion, you easily have upper hand and it would be best just to appease the doctor with idea of 'agree to disagree' and politely but assertively remind the doctor that 'agree to disagree' is how you would always prefer to handle your use of eCigs. Chances are very good that you'll hear of actual links within days of when your doctor would and until that point, the doctor's (current) opinions on this are to be reasonably taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Jorge22]

It's not worth arguing with your doctor if she actually believes that stuff. No real interest in pointing her to Farsalinos. If she ever finds out she was wrong, that'll have to be her own decision.

 

[beckdg]

How about letting them have their opinion and let your improved health change their mind.
I'd think doctors would laugh when patients try to teach them about health issues. I know I laugh when building owners try to tell me how to tear down buildings.

Meh.

If the patient actually knows a little about the subject and can hold their end of the conversation, I don't see medical as professions that necessarily fall into that category.

For example: the nurse that pointed at a broken bone in the wifes foot and continued to say "your tibia... " was embarrassed when I continued the conversation about the pedacarpal in question.

When my doc was trying to prescribe me Metformin, she conceded that she wasn't winning that conversation and was going to look further into the subject to better prepare herself should she face the same conversation in the future.

I think part of what upsets people about their doctors opinions is there's this belief that doctors are near infallible super humans. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

The sooner we see doctors and mechanics as mere humans instead of demigods and low life criminals, the sooner we can see the reality and act accordingly.

Tapatyped

 

[Asbestos4004]

Meh.

If the patient actually knows a little about the subject and can hold their end of the conversation, I don't see medical as professions that necessarily fall into that category.

For example: the nurse that pointed at a broken bone in the wifes foot and continued to say "your tibia... " was embarrassed when I continued the conversation about the pedacarpal in question.

When my doc was trying to prescribe me Metformin, she conceded that she wasn't winning that conversation and was going to look further into the subject to better prepare herself should she face the same conversation in the future.

I think part of what upsets people about their doctors opinions is there's this belief that doctors are near infallible super humans. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

The sooner we see doctors and mechanics as mere humans instead of demigods and low life criminals, the sooner we can see the reality and act accordingly.

Tapatyped

Not my point....the op wasn't being treated for vaping. He said he quit smoking and is now vaping. The doctor responded with a quick opinion. The doctor didn't say "oh, you're vaping? Then we need to get you started on a battery of tests because vaping causes respiratory damage...." They just made a comment about vaping. Who cares what their opinion is? In a situation like that, my opinion is, the op's improved respiratory health will do more to educate the doctor than reciting a bunch of internet jargon.

 

[AndriaD]

Meh.

If the patient actually knows a little about the subject and can hold their end of the conversation, I don't see medical as professions that necessarily fall into that category.

For example: the nurse that pointed at a broken bone in the wifes foot and continued to say "your tibia... " was embarrassed when I continued the conversation about the pedacarpal in question.

When my doc was trying to prescribe me Metformin, she conceded that she wasn't winning that conversation and was going to look further into the subject to better prepare herself should she face the same conversation in the future.

I think part of what upsets people about their doctors opinions is there's this belief that doctors are near infallible super humans. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

The sooner we see doctors and mechanics as mere humans instead of demigods and low life criminals, the sooner we can see the reality and act accordingly.

Tapatyped

Truer words were never spoken. I've always tended to the skeptical side with doctors, but when my OB/GYN once prescribed me an antibiotic that ended with -cillin -- despite that big red NO PENICILLIN sticker on my folder -- I lost every bit of blind faith in doctors. If they prescribe me anything at all, I ask them questions about it -- what is it, what will it do, what might it cause, etc. Then I often ask the same questions of the pharmacist, to make sure that info matches what the doc said. Then I usually look it up online, just to make sure there isn't something else I might need to know. No matter what a doctor says, I take it with a very large grain of salt. After all... they're only PRACTICING.

Andria

 

[beckdg]

Not my point....the op wasn't being treated for vaping. He said he quit smoking and is now vaping. The doctor responded with a quick opinion. The doctor didn't say "oh, you're vaping? Then we need to get you started on a battery of tests because vaping causes respiratory damage...." They just made a comment about vaping. Who cares what their opinion is? In a situation like that, my opinion is, the op's improved respiratory health will do more to educate the doctor than reciting a bunch of internet jargon.

This wasn't about treatment.

You made a statement about a professional scoffing at the idea of a client telling them how to do their job.

In the doctor/patient relationship, the patient SHOULD inform them self and do just that.

I find doctors a lot more understanding to this than say... someone in one or another field of construction.

Tapatyped

 

[lpboyle]

Not my point....the op wasn't being treated for vaping. He said he quit smoking and is now vaping. The doctor responded with a quick opinion. The doctor didn't say "oh, you're vaping? Then we need to get you started on a battery of tests because vaping causes respiratory damage...." They just made a comment about vaping. Who cares what their opinion is? In a situation like that, my opinion is, the op's improved respiratory health will do more to educate the doctor than reciting a bunch of internet jargon.

This may very well be true. One thing that used to tick my doctors off when I did smoke was that I had excellent respiratory health. I chalk it up to the Tai Chi, Yoga, and constant bicycling I used to do. While I can't bicycle anymore due to injury I continue with everything else and replaced the cycling with walking.

I actually doubt I'm going to request a new doc unless she really pushes the point, on vaping. My earlier statement having been made before really thinking this through. She did seem open to discussion on the subject which is why I had asked for links. Thanks, to all those who have provided them. [emoji2]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[beckdg]

This wasn't about treatment.

You made a statement about a professional scoffing at the idea of a client telling them how to do their job.

In the doctor/patient relationship, the patient SHOULD inform them self and do just that.

I find doctors a lot more understanding to this than say... someone in one or another field of construction.

Tapatyped

To add to that...

It absolutely baffles me the amount of people that will question, argue, barter and dictate every detail to a contractor or mechanic yet will allow their doctor carte blanche and just do what they're told.

My mother... a 20 year nurse... often made her living removing dozens of prescriptions treating side effects caused by each other to improve patient health...

Even she recently was on a prescribed medication a year after realizing it was making her sick.



Tapatyped

 

[Asbestos4004]

This wasn't about treatment.

You made a statement about a professional scoffing at the idea of a client telling them how to do their job.

In the doctor/patient relationship, the patient SHOULD inform them self and do just that.

I find doctors a lot more understanding to this than say... someone in one or another field of construction.

Tapatyped

Agreed....it wasn't about treatment. The OP pointed that out. It was about a doctor offering an opinion about something that, in the given situation, didn't really matter. If it doesn't really matter, then why argue about it?

My analogy was based on a situation that doesn't really matter. A building owner telling me how to wreck their building is funny. I don't feel the need to tell them how wrong they are. Why? Because they're leaving and their point doesn't matter. If they set up a lawn chair and try to dictate every move I make, that's a different situation. Adjacent buildings, property and people could be hurt. That's when the argument goes down. Short of that, who cares?

Same with the doc.... That's the difference between ego and humility.

 

[Asbestos4004]

To add to that...

It absolutely baffles me the amount of people that will question, argue, barter and dictate every detail to a contractor or mechanic yet will allow their doctor carte blanche and just do what they're told.

My mother... a 20 year nurse... often made her living removing dozens of prescriptions treating side effects caused by each other to improve patient health...

Even she recently was on a prescribed medication a year after realizing it was making her sick.



Tapatyped

That, I completely agree with. 100%. If the Op had he was prescribed medication or tests because he vapes, then my response would've been completely different.

 

[beckdg]

That, I completely agree with. 100%. If the Op had he was prescribed medication or tests because he vapes, then my response would've been completely different.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chantix or the patch was or will be brought up some time.



Tapatyped

 

[Asbestos4004]

I wouldn't be surprised if Chantix or the patch was or will be brought up some time.



Tapatyped

There's an argument I'd really enjoy! Fortunately, my doctor is a pretty smart guy. He says "Anything is better than smoking". He's a keeper. But the idea of peacocking in the VA cracks me up...I've dealt with the VA.

 

[beckdg]

There's an argument I'd really enjoy! Fortunately, my doctor is a pretty smart guy. He says "Anything is better than smoking". He's a keeper. But the idea of peacocking in the VA cracks me up...I've dealt with the VA.

Yeah, I've heard and continue to hear my share of stories. Very few people in my large, extended family aren't air force, army or marine corpse veterans.

Tapatyped

 

[KiraKarla]

She then immediately chimed in with "popcorn lung" and that ecigs have also been linked to pulmonary fibrosis.

While "popcorn lung" is a serious condition that we should all take heed to, from what I've read it seems you can lower your risks. Diacetyl, Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl, and other chemicals in the Diketone family have been linked to lung necrosis and pulmonary fibrosis. Fortunately, if you take time to research your e-liquids you can easily find products that do not contain these ingredients. This is not to say the CDC and FDA won't find new ingredients that are harmful, but right now with the research on hand, you can eliminate these known threats. I make my own e-juice from products that I have researched so I don't have to deal with the unknowns in store-bought products but I'm sure you can find a manufacturer that makes Diketone-free e-juice.

Do some reading and present your findings to your VA doc, it might help. Maybe start off with reminding her how many harmful chemicals you've already given up when you quit pipe-smoking. Hope some of this helps!

 

[beckdg]

While "popcorn lung" is a serious condition that we should all take heed to, from what I've read it seems you can lower your risks. Diacetyl, Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl, and other chemicals in the Diketone family have been linked to lung necrosis and pulmonary fibrosis. Fortunately, if you take time to research your e-liquids you can easily find products that do not contain these ingredients. This is not to say the CDC and FDA won't find new ingredients that are harmful, but right now with the research on hand, you can eliminate these known threats. I make my own e-juice from products that I have researched so I don't have to deal with the unknowns in store-bought products but I'm sure you can find a manufacturer that makes Diketone-free e-juice.

Do some reading and present your findings to your VA doc, it might help. Maybe start off with reminding her how many harmful chemicals you've already given up when you quit pipe-smoking. Hope some of this helps!

Not to be rude.

But please present me with 1 single verified, reported case of any of the above linked to vaping any available juice be it on the market or diy.

At this point, I see no reason to put effort towards lowering my risk below what's currently proving to be zero risk.

Tapatyped

 

[KiraKarla]

Not to be rude.

But please present me with 1 single verified, reported case of any of the above linked to vaping any available juice be it on the market or diy.

At this point, I see no reason to put effort towards lowering my risk below what's currently proving to be zero risk.

Tapatyped

Hi beckdg,

Research (like this article: CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic) has shown a link between Diacetyl and lung disease, and research has further shown that the chemical reaction of Acetoin & Acetyl Propionyl may breakdown into chemicals in the Diketone family. Why take the risk if you don't have to? To say vaping comes with "zero risk" seems obtuse to me.

I ask myself is the risk worth the reward? I ride a motorcycle because the heightened risk of being exposed to injury or accident is worth the reward of the ride - doesn't mean I don't mitigate the risks where I can by wearing a helmet. I vape because the risk is worth the reward - doesn't mean I don't mitigate the risks where I can by keeping up with research and staying away from chemicals associated with lung damage.