Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[Robbert]

Don't worry about name.I picked Robbert for user name for there wasn't any robertxyz left.
As much as I'm liking liquid vaping,unbelievable on how it's improved,I'll probably try all the winds.
I wind brushless motors occasionally but with epoxy coated copper wire.
I just seen the new kangertrch drip boxes.If they don't leak I can see that design being a big hit.I preferred dripping when egos first came out.
I was just skimming over all the information you posted and there's a lot.

Thanks much

 

[MacTechVpr]

Don't worry about name.I picked Robbert for user name for there wasn't any robertxyz left.
As much as I'm liking liquid vaping,unbelievable on how it's improved,I'll probably try all the winds.
I wind brushless motors occasionally but with epoxy coated copper wire.
I just seen the new kangertrch drip boxes.If they don't leak I can see that design being a big hit.I preferred dripping when egos first came out.
I was just skimming over all the information you posted and there's a lot.

Thanks much

I don't have to tell you then…you understand how strain stabilizes wire electron flow. Wind everything that comes along and have since I started. It's important if nothing else to sample what everyone else is enjoying. But I won't spend 3 days on multi-wire. Just too many mods Rob and I try to enjoy them all. For the beginner, tech savvy or no, I preach the gospel of baseline around sound electrical principles so we can learn how repeat the experience. No sense searchin' for that great vape if you can't find it twice.

Just the same, I'm here if you run into trouble finding "sticky".

Good luck

 

[Robbert]

I got my big block tanks today.Nice equipment and appears to be authentic with USA stamp
Considering it once sold for 65-90.00 bucks,10.00 is probably close to cost.
Also it's built like an army tank so it should last a lifetime.

 

[Robbert]

Mac,
I read through some of your threads on tension winding and I have everything needed to wrap a few coils.
I'd like to try a dual coil single strand for 0.25-0.50 ohms.
I'm guessing 26 gauge is more user friendly and I did get 25 gauge.
Can you recommend the number of turns and diameter for 0.25-0.5 ohm range for using two single wire coils.
I can measure resistance and if memory serves me the coils are ran in series on atomizer so each should be close to 0.25ohms.
If I'm using steam machine correctly for 0.50 ohm dual coil with 3mm diameter using 26 gauge needs 7 turns,if 25 gauge 9 turns.
If 0.25 ohms in 25 gauge then 4 turns with 3mm diameter.
Sound correct?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac,
I read through some of your threads on tension winding and I have everything needed to wrap a few coils.
I'd like to try a dual coil single strand for 0.25-0.50 ohms.
I'm guessing 26 gauge is more user friendly and I did get 25 gauge.
Can you recommend the number of turns and diameter for 0.25-0.5 ohm range for using two single wire coils.
I can measure resistance and if memory serves me the coils are ran in series on atomizer so each should be close to 0.25ohms.

Scroll back a bit to my post…Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step. | Page 73 | Post #1458… and try the middle 25 AWG 8-turn wind on 2.778mm. This is right down the middle of the road in the sub–Ω spectrum and a great wind for tanks as a single.

If you think this might end up being too cool, do 7-turns 24 AWG and you'll think you're pushin' .25Ω (at .31Ω)

To wind, just start slowly adding tension with each turn until they refuse to separate. See any small gaps and it's not enough. A magnifier helps. If you build this and strain it right both winds will generally fire a balanced red inside 3-4 sec from the jump. Just make sure your terminals are well secured. If you start to oxidize too quickly that will lock in any difference in resistance (until you cure the offending gaps and that can be tedious). So begin pulsing at a low V/W. Doesn't matter if at first you end up having to pulse it a half-doz times or more to see oxidation evenly develop and uniform end-to-end lighting. Take your time and observe.

I'd reserve 26 AWG if you find you want a cooler vape (or faster firing). But frankly with 25 and correct strain you'll have both beaucoup power and a rewarding vape towards the cool side. Lot's of density production at just under .5Ω vs a straight contact and def over a spaced wind.

Good luck Rob. Just pm me if you hit any snags you can't solve by reviewing here.



p.s. Remember you're building full-wraps (leads together, not opposing) for verticals on the 454 and fill them with ample cotton. No need to over-stuff, but don't be stingy.

 

[Robbert]

I was going for a dual coil but I didn't reverse wind so getting coils on opposite sides inline with air flow openings and fighting the washer and screws got a bit complicated so I went with a single and it came out 0.46ohm 5 turns with 25 gauge.
It'll take a few times to get the hang but this is definitely a flavor chucker and if I use quads I'll have to reduce nicotine level.
She spits once out of side vents but only when when it fires,which can be tweaked out,then it's flavor time.
I'm guessing to refill just add through side ports or mouthpiece?
Thanks Mac,
To be continued!!!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Congrats. For most, t it takes a couple'a three attempts to minimize most gaps. Minute imperfections remain, but the wind's coherent enough for insulation to develop uniformly. Then the effects of elongation may be readily observed to stabilize electron flow towards efficiency.

Oxidation improves with hand-eye coordination and experience modulating pulsing and/or powering the device for the respective gauge. Flavor and output will too, proportionally. It's a learned mechanical skill and one of the most amazing things I discovered about tension winding.

A note here about how much tension. It is possible to apply too much. If so the wire will go very hot and quickly during oxidation. Even the leads may fire uniformly. If so you'll see wire color temp's far more than required for the flow and diameter. With that goes efficiency. So finding the point that just initiates elongation, what I refer to euphemistically as adhesion, or point of closest contact, and you're reached the adequate threshold for pulsing. A little bit more and you'll add more diffusion, less efficiency. Sometimes that's desirable depending upon the build and device.

There is the temptation for many to over-tighten the outboard turns when trying to balance or tension the leads in the set. One or both leads may turn hotter than the rest of the uniform coil. Try to re-train the coil by reinserting the mandrel and realigning it. More compression with a ceramic tweezer will not work to cure it as it it may small gaps or dark spots.

Yeah, the best advantage of strain is squeezing out the best efficiency with Kanthal. I've tried to stay focused on new users as we need more to join us in our efforts to resist regulation. So I urge you and all others as your experience grows to please join me in spreading this simple but effective technique. Self-reliant satisfied vapers are the best advocates for our pastime.

Rob, post your builds here! Especially straight t.m.c.'s but all you deem worthy of having benefitted from tension.

Now go chuck the roof off. Good luck.

 

[Robbert]

I did a 8 turn double 26g but I think the single had more flavor.
The 454 may need time some steel wool or abrasive glaze to loosen it up.I haven't tested tolerances without gaskets,maybe today.
Next wind I'm not sure but the single coil has been the best so far for flavor.

 

[MacTechVpr]

You'll love it when you get to 25awg+ more surface area. Another RDA I'm lookin' at for flavor is the Narda for large Ø singles and high power. Like clouds but they must be dense Rob. Ergo, the t.m.c. Hard to get adhesion with twisted pair but I like them for singles.



Once you have a few under your belt you may want to give it a shot and keep the pitch tight. Too many gaps and they won't go t.m.c. Not really t.m.c.'s but at least a 3rd seem to try.

Have fun and good luck!

 

[Boden]

Still preaching about spring wound contact coils I see.



I'm guessing you've seen my chart o sciencing.


You'll be happy to know that all the coils used were contact coils.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yeah, you're right. All touching coils are contact coils. But you'd think it's a task more challenging than a moonshot to build a contact coil with strain from all the blather of the past two years about how they don't work that has spawned from this forum.

How the heck else B can we even dream about getting them past a thermal short to make productive multi-wire?

There's somethin' to be said though for all of China flooding us with high power mods as an incentive, after driving all the originator mech mod makers out of the market with their clones (then inexplicably...just not making them).

Guess we just have to promise new vapers clouds and hope for the best.

Seriously tho, I'm here for as long as folks on this little orb are curious about how to cleanly make a stable coil with strain (and the internet is able to point to this thread).

That however remains arguably less predictable than a tensioned micro coil.

Enjoy the vape B.

Good luck.

 

[Boden]

Yeah, you're right. All touching coils are contact coils. But you'd think it's a task more challenging than a moonshot to build a contact coil with strain from all the blather of the past two years about how they don't work that has spawned from this forum.

How the heck else B can we even dream about getting them past a thermal short to make productive multi-wire?

There's somethin' to be said though for all of China flooding us with high power mods as an incentive, after driving all the originator mech mod makers out of the market with their clones (then inexplicably...just not making them).

Guess we just have to promise new vapers clouds and hope for the best.

Seriously tho, I'm here for as long as folks on this little orb are curious about how to cleanly make a stable coil with strain (and the internet is able to point to this thread).

That however remains arguably less predictable than a tensioned micro coil.

Enjoy the vape B.

Good luck.

The science of winding a extension spring is pretty simple. The more negative lead angle you apply the stiffer the spring. Not exactly rocket science.

You sure do splain it with a lot of perty words though.

This might interest you: http://www.advancecarmover.com/images/porterins.pdf

Had one in my old shop. Worked pretty well but slow. Making them on the lathe was much faster.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Truth @Boden. Springs aren't rocket science. But it's not simply springs many of us were using in our tricks. Russ moved us beyond that when he dared to introduce us to a high performance wind. That's what opened Pandora's Box. The inconsistent thermal output of eccentric winds was frustrating everyone back in '12-'13 even as atty's and tanks improved. If that was to change, we had to change. This didn't come out of China.

The real miracle here is Kanthal though. In a career involving real leading edge thermal science I became aware of its properties and even more intrigued when it come up on the radar in vaping. Any coil will work. But if we can help a newcomer consistently make it work optimally within a few minutes to make best use of its characteristics then the door to this barnyard's swept wide open.

My only regret is that I felt I couldn't go openly to the pin vise immediately in the Summer of '13 worried about how difficult it would be to transition folks away from torching coils. So dead set everyone was that this was the only way to make coils.

Some experiments are great fun. Others right on point for those wanting to succeed in getting their lives back. Then moving on to what pleases them is elementary.

Good luck B and thanks for the link.

p.s. Was that you @Boden or @Robbert droppin' that Clapton link on me over at ELR? Great simple way for beginner's to make 'em. Thx.

 

[Boden]

Truth @Boden. Springs aren't rocket science. But it's not simply springs many of us were using in our tricks. Russ moved us beyond that when he dared to introduce us to a high performance wind. That's what opened Pandora's Box. The inconsistent thermal output of eccentric winds was frustrating everyone back in '12-'13 even as atty's and tanks improved. If that was to change, we had to change. This didn't come out of China.

The real miracle here is Kanthal though. In a career involving real leading edge thermal science I became aware of its properties and even more intrigued when it come up on the radar in vaping. Any coil will work. But if we can help a newcomer consistently make it work optimally within a few minutes to make best use of its characteristics then the door to this barnyard's swept wide open.

My only regret is that I felt I couldn't go openly to the pin vise immediately in the Summer of '13 worried about how difficult it would be to transition folks away from torching coils. So dead set everyone was that this was the only way to make coils.

Some experiments are great fun. Others right on point for those wanting to succeed in getting their lives back. Then moving on to what pleases them is elementary.

Good luck B and thanks for the link.

p.s. Was that you @Boden or @Robbert droppin' that Clapton link on me over at ECR? Great simple way for beginner's to make 'em. Thx.

90% of the time I have no idea what you are saying but I like it anyway .

I don't know what ECR is so probably not me.

 

[MacTechVpr]

90% of the time I have no idea what you are saying but I like it anyway .

I don't know what ECR is so probably not me.

Well I meant ELR anyway LOL. I can make sense of an alien but I dunno whatall over there (ECR, reddit). Handful of folks I've met and trust talkin'. The rest so much disjointed jabber. So I getcha. Yeah, I know I talk like a hybrid somethin' or the other. Not pure science, tech or mech jargon yet not quite street either. Can I say how hard it is to try to find the balance peeps will get without not sayin' much at all. Not enough time to apologize to those I've lost as still tryin' to deal with the many still walkin' in. Best I can do B.

At least I've got the message better across the past year that's it's not about a wind but how and with to do one cleanly. Maybe at some point I'll have the opp to get back to tryin' to improve my aliens'n zippers. I've got a heck of a lot of flat and thin wire left over. Mebe then I can go hang with Slippy.

Good luck.

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

Well I meant ELR anyway LOL. I can make sense of an alien but I dunno whatall over there (ECR, reddit). Handful of folks I've met and trust talkin'. The rest so much disjointed jabber. So I getcha. Yeah, I know I talk like a hybrid somethin' or the other. Not pure science, tech or mech jargon yet not quite street either. Can I say how hard it is to try to find the balance peeps will get without not sayin' much at all. Not enough time to apologize to those I've lost as still tryin' to deal with the many still walkin' in. Best I can do B.

At least I've got the message better across the past year that's it's not about a wind but how and with to do one cleanly. Maybe at some point I'll have the opp to get back to tryin' to improve my aliens'n zippers. I've got a heck of a lot of flat and thin wire left over. Mebe then I can go hang with Slippy.

Good luck.

I'll give you a link if case you feel the need to post pic's of your pride and joy's


Post pictures of your working wick and coil setup


Even first timers can post pics here if they have issues with wicks and/or coils, it's not just for the accomplished builder to show off


Mac can even come hang out and show off some of his Geometrically Tensioned Beauties that im always so impressed to see!
Keep up the good work you do Mac!

 

[Robbert]

I'll probably get or build some type of jig for coil winding.
There's a video on YouTube that shows a tension contact wind build.
I watched it and now it makes much more sense.
Super_X_Drifter does the video
How to make perfect coils is title.

 

[Robbert]

Are there any decent RDA or RTA clones?
I can't see spending 120.00 on a RDA or RTA for authenticity when clones can perform just as good.
What are the better clones made from?I thought the 454 was stainless steel but it's not even steel,and so far it out performs my melo 3 and both aspire tanks in flavor.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Are there any decent RDA or RTA clones?
I can't see spending 120.00 on a RDA or RTA for authenticity when clones can perform just as good.
What are the better clones made from?I thought the 454 was stainless steel but it's not even steel,and so far it out performs my melo 3 and both aspire tanks in flavor.

An authentic 454 is stainless Robb. Did you do a scraping or analysis of the units you received from 101? I have a significant collection I've received from various vendor sources. Would be interesting to know. Clones of the 454 I've sampled for this device work well. It's a good balance of airflow, vertical orientation, reduced chamber capacity and domed cap. But I've observed the clones run a bit hotter even with t.m.c.'s. Differences in material composition might be the indicated contributing factor.

Likewise, I found the VHO Raiju was an exceptional conventional design that performed superbly. And I attribute this directly to the material composition of the atty having tried it against several 1:1 clones.

Think with knockoffs that it's a hit or miss proposition as you simply don't know where or how they're manufactured. At times a major name Chinese producer gets it right or very close, to be fair.

Since I made the rec on 454's here. Sev peeps I compare notes with have got them in and built them finding they produced well. But if not stainless what are they then and how can we be sure one way or the other? That is to say, what lead you to the conclusion they're of some other material than stainless?

Thx Rob. Good luck.

 

[Robbert]

I think I made a mistake thinking stainless steel is always magnetic but I guess that not always the case.
It turns out austenitic stainless steel,used in food handling stainless such as sinks,cups,etc... isn't magnetic.
I was using a magnet to pick up loose kenthal wire scraps and was surprised when it didn't stick to 454.
I have some extremely strong magnets stored away.I'll try them later just out of curiosity.If there is any
If it is food-handling stainless maybe it shouldn't be magnetic.
I don't know if there is any way to test austenitic stainless steel but I'll do some checking.
Maybe tanks or parts that come into contact with e-liquids is austenitic stainless steel.