What to do - Proposed bans in 4 states

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robertpri

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Nov 3, 2009
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Dang yet one more intrusion into our choices in California. These bleeding heart liberals will take away all of our rights and options. Letters e-mails and phone calls will be completed!

Yep. I followed the history of the bill. In early 2009. a liberal democrat observed an e-cig kiosk in a mall, and there were teen agers walking by.

In never occurred to the politician to do anything but attempt to ban them for everyone in the state.

Typical liberal--she does not approve, so wants to ban them for everyone.
 

robertpri

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Damn I thought the Gov shot down the last bill...are they just gonna keep pushing this till it gets through? I really hope they don't. If CA does it I'm afraid alot of other states will follow.

He did shoot down the bill in Oct/2009, and I have not heard of anything new. But knowing liberal democrats, once they want something banned, they will keep trying.

We need to stay alert and flood our elected officials with mail if this thing surfaces again.
 

DC2

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He did shoot down the bill in Oct/2009, and I have not heard of anything new. But knowing liberal democrats, once they want something banned, they will keep trying.

We need to stay alert and flood our elected officials with mail if this thing surfaces again.
I'm pretty sure this is a new bill, and they are trying again.
 
The states are freaking out over the potential loss of tobacco tax revenues. First they want you to believe that cigarette smokers cost billions in heath care. Create a product that threatens the billions in tobacco tax and now they want you back on cigarettes. Trust me the government does not want you to live past 70 either cause then you are a burden on society Medicare, Social security etc.
 
I'm in Missouri so I'm not directly affected... yet, so I plan to email these officials in other states to help you guys out, and give a heads up to my reps here. Would it be inappropriate to add a link to this forum so they can see first hand what the e-cigs are all about and the results and experiences people are having?

I mean, I have found more information and opinions here in one afternoon than I ever have simply scouring the net. Thought I would get some input before I did that.
 

DC2

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I'm in Missouri so I'm not directly affected... yet, so I plan to email these officials in other states to help you guys out, and give a heads up to my reps here. Would it be inappropriate to add a link to this forum so they can see first hand what the e-cigs are all about and the results and experiences people are having?

I mean, I have found more information and opinions here in one afternoon than I ever have simply scouring the net. Thought I would get some input before I did that.
You might want to point them to this petition...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available

If they look around here too much they might freak out.
:D
 

yvilla

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Would it be inappropriate to add a link to this forum so they can see first hand what the e-cigs are all about and the results and experiences people are having?

Besides the suggestion to send the link to the consumers petition, I think it would be important to send them links to the American Association of Public Health Physicians page on ecigs. That has links to all their position papers, and their critical petition to the FDA.

Here it is: Current Federal Tobacco Legislation S.625/H.R. 1180
 

Canute

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ECF Veteran
I can't believe people can be so ignorant as to the benefits that e-cigs have for people. I quit my 30+ year smoking habit the day I got my first e-cig. I live in Maryland and just emailed everyone on that list a heart felt email. I think this whole thing is insane. My doctor was the one who "prescribed" e-cigs to me so I could kick my nasty habit. Now, I'm trying to set up a company making mods to help people as much as I can. Something needs to be done.
Thanks Everyone.

Couldn't agree more. For me I quit the day I received mine after smoking 1.5ppd for 24 years. Then I got a good friend to make the switch who had smoked for approximately the same length of time (and is now a very active ECF member). Together we now have in the neighborhood of nine friends, all long term smokers, who have made the switch! I even have a non-smoking friend who is a paid Captain with a major metropolitan fire department who is now going on calls in which people are suffering from smoking related health emergencies and asking them if they've ever heard of electronic cigarette's!

After having these products change my life and the lives of many family and friends I began researching hard. To the point that I worked all day and spent all my evenings gathering everything from the FDA, Health New Zealand, CDC reports, public statements from physicians...you name it. I started a petition that got off the ground running only to have the internet host shut it down due too it's relationship to e-cigarette's! I have a background that I felt suited me to start a business pertaining to e-cigs and finally my fiance got sick of it and told me to drop what I was doing and pour my heart and soul into this. So I know where your coming from in regards to wanting to get involved.

The fact is these politicians and anti-smoking groups are clearly making no effort to do any research. The mere fact that the anti-smoking groups aren't whole heartedly backing e-cigs just further illustrates how in bed they are with big pharm as far as I'm concerned. How hard would it be for them to find this forum? How hard would it be for them to contact the moderators of this forum and ask that a public announcement be made to the members that they are seeking people willing to participate in research groups? How many of us would line up to participate? How many of them have made any attempt to do so?

As far as the media goes. I don't think they have any clue as to just how big of a story this really is. With one in five Americans continuing to be tobacco users these simple little devices, that are filled with ridiculously simple ingredients, stand to benefit 40-50 million Americans. Plus everyone else concerned about second hand smoke or litter and fire danger due to improper disposal of combustible cigarette's (huge in the Santa Cruz mountains here). Do you think the media really understands what's in these things? I recently wrote to one of the leading suppliers of fog juice in the US. Their site goes to great lengths to explain that they supply to Disneyland, Six Flags, Universal Studios, and thousands of other amusement parks, lasertag facilities and dance establishments. It then goes on to explain that their fog is "non-toxic and safe" but does not list the ingredients. My e-mail asked simply if their fog contained propylene glycol to which they responded immediately "All fog liquids we know of are primarily made up of propylene glycol". They also sell scented fogs as well. So with the only non-FDA approved ingredient that does not already have a lengthy track record of supposed safe inhalation (largely by children no less) being the nicotine itself....it comes down to straight nicotine v.s. nicotine and 4000 other ingredients. Where's the logic?

Obviously it is of the utmost importance that we write our officials and all of us around my parts have our letters in. I do however think that getting the media to acknowledge this is of equal importance as well in order to accurately portray our plight to the general, and ill informed, public. A news story recently came out of Sacramento, the heart of Corbett's district (force behind California SB 882), that was relatively balanced. This news station is asking for people to write in and tell them their e-cig experiences. You can do so below the story in the blog or on their Facebook page. I would recommend everyone takes a minute and does so just to make sure Corbett's voters know how we feel!
Video:
http://www.news10.net/video/default...y+to+quit+or+teen+marketing+tool?/74560109001
Written story with blog below:
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=78361

Also take note that SB 882 does NOT currently just state that it will limit sale to those over 18 but rather states.....and I quote "This bill would authorize action to halt the sale, distribution, or offering for sale of electronic cigarettes that have not been approved or cleared by the federal Food and Drug Administration."

Just my two cents turning into four.
 
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dmarnaud2

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Jul 29, 2009
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Folks,

This post may not be popular but I'm sure it will generate discussion. I agree that this current trend to ban ecigs is crazy. Being a recovered 25 year smoker I personally believe the product is a lifeline for those absolutely addicted to nicotine as I am. I also realize, as most everyone here, that we are the proud, the strong, the ginnie pigs(or lemmings as the case may be).

I like most of us, have tried the other methods of nicotine replacement therapy. I could not live with chewing up the insides of my mouth, giving myself heartburn, hot flashes, hiccups, heart palpitations from imprecise administration methods and oh yea; depression from psychoactive drug therapies.

I think we all need to take a hard look and decide if we feel stronger about whether we believe that ecigs should be tax free or legal. If the answer, as in my case, is legal we should maybe modify our approach to the representatives and make it clear that we see the fact that the tax revenues are not inescapable and a better alternative to us than outright illegality (so we lie). The truth is that we KNOW that cigarettes are deadly! The truth is also that we BELIEVE that ecigs are not deadly or as deadly and choose the uncertainty of the ecig rather than the certainty of the analog.

The methods the pharmaceutical and insurance industries used to flim-flam the health care reform should be adhered to in this case which is DAMAGE CONTROL!8-o If we modify our stance now and make a proactive stance (don't you just hate that word) making the above arguments clear to the representatives; I believe we stand a better chance of at least maintaining the privilege to continue using the devices UNTIL THEY ARE PROVEN DANGEROUSE rather than being deigned the privilege until they are proven safer than cigarettes!

The tax equation is pretty simple as follows: 1 analog cigarette delivers about 2 mg of nicotine. 30ml x 24mg/ml = 720mg of nicotine. Approximately 50% of nicotine liquid is delivered so 720mg * 50% = 360mg. 360mg / 2mg/smoke = 180 cigarettes / 20 = 9 packs of cigarettes. Ouch, I'd hate to pay that much tax on a bottle of juice but would gladly do it to be legally able to continue to vape. The taxation structure on the cigarettes is in place and accordingly could be modified to include esmoking juice rather than creating a whole new class of product.

A couple hard and fast rules should be applied which I think could be readally agreed upon.

Rule #1; This product is not intended for minors and should not be sold or marketed to people under 18. If parents, with problem smoker children, want to take matters into theor own hands, that is an independent argument and would of course be considdered contributing to the delenquncy of a minor just like alcohol.

Rule #2; A disclaimer should be required on the juice saying that "There is no evidence that the product is actualy safer than cigarettes and may cause physical harm and that the user assumes all risk involved with the use of the product!"

Rule #3; Juice makers should print all ingredients on the bottle and have each batch of base product certified free of mercury, ethyl alcohol etc by an independent laboratory(This could only help all e-vapors)

Rule 34; Great pains should be taken by everyone in all discussions on the forums, with others and especialy govenment representatives to stop calling them e-cigarettes. We should all agree on a name or group of descriptors and start calling them nic-halers, nic-stick, nic-vapers or something else so as to distance them from cigarettes.

I realize this argument can be improved but the basic premis is the shape of things to come.

Awaiting your deluge of hate mail :oops:



"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain;
The Great and Powerful Oz has Spoken"
 

CES

optimistic cynic
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dmarnaud2, no hate at all. Reasonable regulation probably includes taxation, and your ideas are reasonable. But I hope that a case can be made for reasonable taxation as well- not to the same level as combustible cigs. Right now different tobacco products are taxed at different rates, and we can make the argument that as reduced harm products they should not be taxed at the same rate as cigs. Right now I'd prefer to give my money to groups that can support keeping them legal and do the studies that are needed to show that the harm reduction is real.
 

Lucy05

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Nov 12, 2009
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Northern Illinois
If you read the article it says that Senator Link will accept whatever ecigs the FDA approves. I think that if we can get the FDA to research ecigs more and the USA made juices maybe they'll approve it for sale here. I wrote my state rep, the sponsor of the Bill and the Governor of Illinois, no response, even from my state rep. I hope they are inundated with letters and emails from all ecig users in our country. I've never been politically active, not even in the 1960's but I'm angry now and ready to do what I need to do to march or lobby for this. I told them that ecigs should not be banned unless it's a federal ban, like Gov Schwarzenegger did in California. Another point I made was that they are Green friendly, no cigarette butts on the streets and gutters. I also pointed out they were safer then tobacco cigarettes because I've never heard of anyone burning down their house while falling asleep with an ecig in their hands. When all is said and done, I'm stocking up on supplies and may be travelling all over the country to keep vaping. I'm never going back to analogs, if I have to vape just 0 nic juice I make it my self.
 
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