Whole Tobacco Alkaloid (WTA) now available at Aroma Ejuice

[snork]

You know that has been brought up before and I struggle with that.

I have a lot of batches that did not meet my expectations, but I just cant bring myself to putting it out on the market.

Dvap has set standards for me to uphold and I agree with him regarding those requirements.

If I cut corners than product quality could suffer which is something I'm not willing to sacrifice.

Would pre ordering help? Our batches are usually ready about every 5-7 days.

Whew, that's a load off. I can't see you purposely putting out a product which is less than your standards. That's incomprehensible to me, you *raise* the bar, not lower it.

I've done a bunch of preorders for vape stuff and it usually goes okay. But boy, the best way to piss off vapers is to have a preorder and not meet the date. I've seen where vendors were raked over the coals when unforeseen circumstances held up the show. I'd be wary about that one.

 

[Guzz]

Have you ever thought of trying to do a synthetic batch of WTA? What I mean by that is go to a chemical/pharmaceutical supply and get the Nicotine, Nornicotine (maybe some N-Nitrosonornicotine) and Anatabine (skip the Anabasine because it is what it is) and mix them in the appropriate ratios?

I might be quicker, and far easier to get a consistent product than trying to extract them from tobacco leaves. Also you might be able to eliminate the subtle nuttiness to make it truly unflavored.

 

[snork]

Ooo! Ooo! Ooo! This thread is killing me right now! I hope Jerry comes along soon and explains that one; his answer is phenomenal!

 

[olderthandirt]

I'd think any possible positive results garnered with a pre-order approach would be way more headache for Jerry then they'd be worth.
The instances of WTA being out of stock have become the exception rather than the norm as of late (last year) so instead of a pre-order routine mebbe an e-mail alert system?

If it's not too much of a bother to implement such a thing could be good for Jerry and customers as well.

As for downgrading quality in favor of quantity well...... no.

Just no.

The current taste and efficacy of Aroma's WTA is what makes it the singular product that it is!

 

[hittman]

That's a good idea OTD. Put together an email list and just do a mass mailing when it's back in stock.

 

[beachroadbum]

Aroma Wta is far more accessible nowadays than a year or two ago. My only request is to offer 30ml bottles again. I always order two 15's.

 

[DVap]

Have you ever thought of trying to do a synthetic batch of WTA? What I mean by that is go to a chemical/pharmaceutical supply and get the Nicotine, Nornicotine (maybe some N-Nitrosonornicotine) and Anatabine (skip the Anabasine because it is what it is) and mix them in the appropriate ratios?

I might be quicker, and far easier to get a consistent product than trying to extract them from tobacco leaves. Also you might be able to eliminate the subtle nuttiness to make it truly unflavored.

I'll take this one since I've posted on this topic before, and I know Jerry is fully in agreement.

There is a slippery slope that is traversed when one goes from extraction of naturally occurring components to an artificial concoction. While one might argue that defining this line sharply is an overly strict distinction, I'm comfortable with no less. The line is that which lies between applying science to nature and producing a drug. The former, I've always had some misgivings about, and I've discussed them at length at various times. The latter, I wouldn't touch with a 3 meter pole.

 

[Imme]

You know that has been brought up before and I struggle with that.

I have a lot of batches that did not meet my expectations, but I just cant bring myself to putting it out on the market.

Dvap has set standards for me to uphold and I agree with him regarding those requirements.

If I cut corners than product quality could suffer which is something I'm not willing to sacrifice.

Would pre ordering help? Our batches are usually ready about every 5-7 days.

I didn't see the part about Dvap's & your standards agreement until after I quoted this so I'll go ahead and write it anyway. The first thing that came to mind for me was imagining your dumping out what I would consider to be excellent WTAs.

An e-liquid vendor's beta samples are fantastic and we beg him to sell them now, now, now! But he always makes us wait another few weeks to months even though we are very happy with the beta samples. Anyway, could you possibly sell those that don't meet your standards as "seconds"? Let customers know on the site that they are "seconds" like they do with clothing or food products that don't pass their inspections yet most customers can't tell there's anything wrong with them. And we love the savings.

As far as email updates go, I for one am forever behind in reading my email so that wouldn't work for me. But I'm pretty certain I'm a minority in that department. I've also never had a problem ordering when I've wanted to but I can imagine it would be really tough it were to happen considering how much I depend on them....No pressure, Jerry & Ms Chris!

 

[radiokaos]

I'll take this one since I've posted on this topic before, and I know Jerry is fully in agreement.

There is a slippery slope that is traversed when one goes from extraction of naturally occurring components to an artificial concoction. While one might argue that defining this line sharply is an overly strict distinction, I'm comfortable with no less. The line is that which lies between applying science to nature and producing a drug. The former, I've always had some misgivings about, and I've discussed them at length at various times. The latter, I wouldn't touch with a 3 meter pole.

+ 1

Very eloquent and I firmly agree with you 100%

 

[Guzz]

I'll take this one since I've posted on this topic before, and I know Jerry is fully in agreement.

There is a slippery slope that is traversed when one goes from extraction of naturally occurring components to an artificial concoction. While one might argue that defining this line sharply is an overly strict distinction, I'm comfortable with no less. The line is that which lies between applying science to nature and producing a drug. The former, I've always had some misgivings about, and I've discussed them at length at various times. The latter, I wouldn't touch with a 3 meter pole.

I understand, but that is a personal belief. As you know the majority of medications did originate from 'natural' biological plants, and such. But a lot of them came with other side effects or properties that were not beneficial or just not needed. So they were refined and the important parts were extracted and concentrated and packaged, to evolve into modern medicine. Hence, just nicotine e-juice, which 99% of the vapor users are quite content with.

But my question still stands, has anyone tried to do a synthetic 'WTA' e-juice with the other alkaloids? This in itself could possibly help in finding why standard NRT has such a high failure rate.

 

[snork]

I understand, but that is a personal belief. As you know the majority of medications did originate from 'natural' biological plants, and such. But a lot of them came with other side effects or properties that were not beneficial or just not needed. So they were refined and the important parts were extracted and concentrated and packaged, to evolve into modern medicine. Hence, just nicotine e-juice, which 99% of the vapor users are quite content with.

But my question still stands, has anyone tried to do a synthetic 'WTA' e-juice with the other alkaloids? This in itself could possibly help in finding why standard NRT has such a high failure rate.

I don't believe anybody has tried that approach, back when I was educating myself I couldn't find anybody. I do know the topic has been discussed quite a bit (at least between Jerry and I ) and from an ethical, legal and regulatory approach it's not such a good idea. You'd basically be putting yourself in the role of a compounding pharmacist handling individual toxic chemicals from differing sources and deciding how to put them together. How many eyes would be watching? Rightfully so? With tobacco extraction Mother Nature has you covered, to some extent.

Oh how I wish people could talk to Jerry and DVap in person.

 

[hittman]

As far as I know, I have tried wta from each company that has produced it as well as Dvap's own. There was one that I tried that I had a weird reaction to that I wondered if perhaps it was either synthetic or something else had been added. I like aroma's wta the way it is and if it was synthetic then I don't know that I'd buy it.

 

[snork]

As far as I know, I have tried wta from each company that has produced it as well as Dvap's own. There was one that I tried that I had a weird reaction to that I wondered if perhaps it was either synthetic or something else had been added. I like aroma's wta the way it is and if it was synthetic then I don't know that I'd buy it.

Yes! When that *wonder* factor gets in there everything goes in the toilet. "Here, does this meat smell bad to you?"

 

[DVap]

With tobacco extraction Mother Nature has you covered, to some extent.

Yes, that's the thought I was after.

 

[olderthandirt]

nevermind

All's good, peace (-:

 

[radiokaos]

I don't believe anybody has tried that approach, back when I was educating myself I couldn't find anybody. I do know the topic has been discussed quite a bit (at least between Jerry and I ) and from an ethical, legal and regulatory approach it's not such a good idea. You'd basically be putting yourself in the role of a compounding pharmacist handling individual toxic chemicals from differing sources and deciding how to put them together. How many eyes would be watching? Rightfully so? With tobacco extraction Mother Nature has you covered, to some extent.

Oh how I wish people could talk to Jerry and DVap in person.

Snork,

You know me too well. The minute we start ordering chemicals and trying to make WTA by going with precursors it now becomes a drug which is something no one wants. Very well said sir and thanks for your reply.

 

[radiokaos]

OTD, we are on the same page.

 

[KGie]

I'll take this one since I've posted on this topic before, and I know Jerry is fully in agreement.

There is a slippery slope that is traversed when one goes from extraction of naturally occurring components to an artificial concoction. While one might argue that defining this line sharply is an overly strict distinction, I'm comfortable with no less. The line is that which lies between applying science to nature and producing a drug. The former, I've always had some misgivings about, and I've discussed them at length at various times. The latter, I wouldn't touch with a 3 meter pole.

There's also what I believe is the critical issue of thinking we know everything in a natural substance that's harmful so we can refine it out, and everything important so we can include it. As it turns out, all too often we think we know, but the reality is we have nowhere near the whole story. WTA is a perfect case in point, where the conventional wisdom thinks nicotine is the only important psychoactive component. At least in this case some of us have dug a little deeper (thanks DVap) and realized the conventional wisdom stops at the first word. It's another side of that slippery slope, this one caused by not knowing what we don't know and acting like we do. Until we have full understanding of the last base pair, molecule and atom that makes up the living world, it's hubris to pretend we have that kind of knowledge.

Not to say we may not approach that level of god-like knowledge at some point, but I think we're still far lower on that hyperbolic curve than most people fool themselves into believing.

Woof – didn't mean to get so philosophical.

 

[beachroadbum]

Hi all

Got a bottle of 4-16 batch. I noticed it shakes up easier than past batches. Seems less thick which I am really enjoying. Not sure if it's just me.

 

[DVap]

There's also what I believe is the critical issue of thinking we know everything in a natural substance that's harmful so we can refine it out, and everything important so we can include it. As it turns out, all too often we think we know, but the reality is we have nowhere near the whole story. WTA is a perfect case in point, where the conventional wisdom thinks nicotine is the only important psychoactive component. At least in this case some of us have dug a little deeper (thanks DVap) and realized the conventional wisdom stops at the first word. It's another side of that slippery slope, this one caused by not knowing what we don't know and acting like we do. Until we have full understanding of the last base pair, molecule and atom that makes up the living world, it's hubris to pretend we have that kind of knowledge.

Not to say we may not approach that level of god-like knowledge at some point, but I think we're still far lower on that hyperbolic curve than most people fool themselves into believing.

Woof – didn't mean to get so philosophical.

I'm inclined to agree. I can't count how many times I've been ask to give a definitive answer about one aspect or another surrounding WTA. Those who know me around here know that definitive answers come few and far between. It's one thing to say that I suspect something is true and quite another thing to say that something is true. My advice is to be very wary of anyone who claims to know the truth about these issues. They're more than likely full of it and usually full of themselves.