why is snus considered safer than dipping?

[W Axl Rose]

Just wondering. I can't use ecigs anymore so am looking elsewhere for my fixes. A little worried about the whole mouth cancer, teeth falling out thing...From what i've read here, it seems that people think snus is safer than dipping and I was just wondering why? Also, I don't wanna hold it above my front teeth, does anyone hold it on the sides??

 

[hittman]

I just started using snus a couple weeks ago but from what I have read the swedish made snus is safer because of the way the tobacco is prepared compared to the way american companies do it. I would definitely recommend portions and not loose snus. I put the portions to the side because I do not want them on my front teeth. It seems to work ok for me. Perhaps OTD,TV, or the wiz will see this and chime in. They are the resident experts here.

 

[dgriego]

I just got my first order and did not like it in my upper lip. According to the experts you can put it wherever you want so I keep mine on the side when I use it.

I do not know much and have only used it two or three times but I at least know that much because I also asked the question.

I like the snuff much better myself but there are several here on the forum who swear by the snus.

 

[a2dcovert]

Just wondering. I can't use ecigs anymore so am looking elsewhere for my fixes. A little worried about the whole mouth cancer, teeth falling out thing...From what i've read here, it seems that people think snus is safer than dipping and I was just wondering why? Also, I don't wanna hold it above my front teeth, does anyone hold it on the sides??

Because snus is a little drier and doesn't generate as much saliva as chewing tobacco or loose snuff it doesn't really matter where you put the portion. At least it doesn't seem to make any difference to me. The guys that post here have said that they put it in the upper and lower or even on the side. You won't know until you give it a try.

I have cronic dry mouth and I don't generate a lot of saliva so I'm not bothered at any location.

I have issues with acid reflux and find that the snus doesn't bother me like vaping high levels of e-cig juice used to. I can't explain why it is that way.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Just wondering. I can't use ecigs anymore so am looking elsewhere for my fixes. A little worried about the whole mouth cancer, teeth falling out thing...From what i've read here, it seems that people think snus is safer than dipping and I was just wondering why? Also, I don't wanna hold it above my front teeth, does anyone hold it on the sides??

Hi Axl (I'm a big fan ), Those are good questions we all wondered about and rightly so with all the horror stories over the years. The bottom line on health is that smokeless products are all far less harmful than smoking. That includes oral cancers, too. A persons chances of oral cancer risk is greater for smokers than smokeless tobacco users and no lung cancer or heart disease has been linked to the use of smokeless products.
The difference between US dip and Swedish snus is wide also. Dip is fire cured, then fermented, Swedish snus is air or steam cured, then pasturized. The pasturized tobacco results in much lower TSNA's (carcinogens) for Swedish snus so gives an even greater margin of reduced harm over dip. Also, dip requires the user to spit during its use and isn't discrete or, in a lot of cases, "family/co-worker friendly". Swedish snus sits quietly working its magic and produces little excess saliva, so spitting is un-needed and is very discrete in places not tobacco friendly.
As far as teeth are concerned, I've seen some conflicting evidence. Snus has a little higher pH so it makes sense that a portion in regular contact on any given teeth will eventually cause some damage. Some hard-core snusers will surely end up snaggle-toothed. On the other hand, most of us use snus on and off throughout the day to keep a constant level of nic/WTA flowing through the veins. At the same time, I think it's wise to alternate locations throughout the day to help ward off future problems. Another idea is using the mini portions to keep from coming in contact with teeth altogether. The bottom line here, also, is that smoking is devastating to teeth and gums, so I really can't say that in the long run snus is any worse. I've yet to see any kind of inclusive and conclusive study.
Here's a little further reading, but much more is available, including a large handful of studies.

Smokeless Tobacco as Harm Reduction for Smokers > Publications > ACSH

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Also, hopefully Stubby will see this thread and have more to offer. He's done a lot of research and is the snus veteran that most frequently still uses this forum on a regular basis.

 

[Stubby]

Also, hopefully Stubby will see this thread and have more to offer. He's done a lot of research and is the snus veteran that most frequently still uses this forum on a regular basis.

I think you covered most of it. You have to understand that the tobacco prohibitionist have been waging a decades long campaign of misinformation on oral tobacco. Check out these sites to get an idea of what the real story is

Tobacco Truth

Tobaccoharmreduction.org

I'm not going to say oral tobacco is risk free, but it is greatly reduced compared to smoking. I'm also not going to defend american oral tobacco. It certainly is a good deal less risky the smoking, but Swedish snus is the least risky, so why mess with anything else. All the evidence (and there's lots of it) points to snus being at least 98% less harmful then smoking.

They have been unable to link any risk of oral cancer with snus, while american style snuff may have a slight risk. Looking at it another way, if PV's aren't working for you the danger of smoking is many times more harmful then snus. We also know the long term affects of snus, while we don't know what decades of inhaling PG or VG, along with flavorings will be. The evidence points to very low risk, but just saying.

There is some risk of gum recession, but the worst appears to be from loose snus. Buy a good electric toothbrush (I use a sonicare) floss, and change up where you place the portion and the problems should minimal at worst. Overall oral problems with snus are a good deal less then with smoking.

You can keep your teeth, but don't tell OTD that.

 

[olderthandirt]

...You can keep your teeth, but don't tell OTD that.

But those new choppers sure hold a portion in place reeeeal well!

 

[W Axl Rose]

Thank you guys so much. So, just for clarification, the camel snus is not considered as safe as swedish, right? I have some camel to get me through until my order of swedish comes in the mail.
Again, thank you for your patience and answers.

 

[The Wiz]

I think you covered most of it. You have to understand that the tobacco prohibitionist have been waging a decades long campaign of misinformation on oral tobacco. Check out these sites to get an idea of what the real story is

Tobacco Truth

Tobaccoharmreduction.org

I'm not going to say oral tobacco is risk free, but it is greatly reduced compared to smoking. I'm also not going to defend american oral tobacco. It certainly is a good deal less risky the smoking, but Swedish snus is the least risky, so why mess with anything else. All the evidence (and there's lots of it) points to snus being at least 98% less harmful then smoking.

They have been unable to link any risk of oral cancer with snus, while american style snuff may have a slight risk. Looking at it another way, if PV's aren't working for you the danger of smoking is many times more harmful then snus. We also know the long term affects of snus, while we don't know what decades of inhaling PG or VG, along with flavorings will be. The evidence points to very low risk, but just saying.

There is some risk of gum recession, but the worst appears to be from loose snus. Buy a good electric toothbrush (I use a sonicare) floss, and change up where you place the portion and the problems should minimal at worst. Overall oral problems with snus are a good deal less then with smoking.

You can keep your teeth, but don't tell OTD that.

Thanks Stubby for clarifying that we really don't know what the long term affects of snus(and vaping)are....other than we have a strong conviction that they are both much safer than smoking.We all use these products on faith....and the solid fact that we feel much better than when we were smoking.Well said!!

The Wiz!(never thought I would be jealous of a guy who didn't have "Real" teeth!! OTD!!!)

 

[mwahle1]

Thank you guys so much. So, just for clarification, the camel snus is not considered as safe as swedish, right? I have some camel to get me through until my order of swedish comes in the mail.
Again, thank you for your patience and answers.

As you know, I just started using Camel snus also and would like to know how much more detrimental it is compared to Swedish snus.
Thanks

 

[olderthandirt]

...
The Wiz!(never thought I would be jealous of a guy who didn't have "Real" teeth!! OTD!!!)

And here's hoping you never get to know the "pleasure"! Sincerely!!

Thank you guys so much. So, just for clarification, the camel snus is not considered as safe as swedish, right? I have some camel to get me through until my order of swedish comes in the mail.
Again, thank you for your patience and answers.

As you know, I just started using Camel snus also and would like to know how much more detrimental it is compared to Swedish snus.
Thanks

The RJR Camel is supposed to be processed in the same manner as Swedish, air cured and pasteurized.

Where it fails, as best I know from the little info available and my own experience using it, is that what ever nic it does have it doesn't give it up! The 2 tins I used were supposedly 7mg/portion. NOT!

I've yet to see anything beyond speculation but the last thing I had seen was that the current product out for "market test" is somewhere around 3mg/portion.

So, it shouldn't be any more harmful then Swedish snus, it just isn't as effective.

EDIT: Beat ya by that much Stubby lol

 

[Stubby]

As you know, I just started using Camel snus also and would like to know how much more detrimental it is compared to Swedish snus.
Thanks

Hard to get numbers on camel snus, but I remember someone dug up that the TSNA numbers for camel snus are very low, comparable to Swedish snus. The problem for many is that it's not as effective in delivering the goods as the Swedish snus. If you where anything but a very light smoker it will not be enough.

Some people actually like the sweet flavor of the camel, and nothing wrong with that as a desert snus. I wouldn't want to depend on it as my only good source of nicotine/WTA.


I wanted to clarify that we do know the long term effects of snus and that it is a proven reduced risk product. It's e-liquid that we don't know the long term effects. It's a bit of a leap of faith, but not a very big leap.

Edit: I see OTD beat me to the punch and posted while I typed. I guess I should type faster.

 

[W Axl Rose]

It is pretty cool that there exists a forum where experienced people apparently 'race' eachother to answer the questions of newbies!!!
Thank you guys!

 

[hittman]

I started with the camel frost and felt little if no nic hit from it. I am one of the ones that likes the flavor but the nic is definitely lacking. Even the mini mints at 4mg seem to have more.

 

[mwahle1]

Thanks for the info. I am not using Camel snus for the nicotine (I chain vape 36 mg e-juice for that--and I was a heavy smoker 3-4 pack /day). I am using it for the “calming effect” it has on me and should be noted that I am using it sparingly. It appears that I am only somewhat or slightly addicted to the WTA’s, but either way I am going to get some of the Swedish snus for comparison.

 

[BardicDruid]

Check out SnusOn.com, it's a snussers forum and they have a bunch of stuff on health issues. The Swedes have been making and using this stuff for a little over 250 years now, if there were any real problems they'd know.

 

[exogenesis]

Talking up snus vs smoking:

I think this sums it up:

the Swedes have the highest per capita consumption of smokeless tobacco, yet the lowest rates of oral cancers in the EU.

Health Risks of Smoking Compared to Swedish Snus; Inhalation Toxicology - 17(13)ages 741-748 - Informa Healthcare

these seven studies do provide quantitative evidence that, for certain health outcomes, the health risks associated with snus are lower than those associated with smoking. Specifically, this is true for lung cancer (based on one study), for oral cancer (based on one study), for gastric cancer (based on one study), for cardiovascular disease (based on three of four studies), and for all-cause mortality

Might be worth getting the full article.

What I like about this forum is that it causes me to keep looking around for info,
rather than accepting the 'bloke down the pub said it' method of getting facts.


I think the major contibution to the lower TNSA's in Swedish snus is the air cure,
not the pasteurisation.
The fact that air is not restricted (like it is in flue curing) stops the leaf bacteria
from using the nitrogen compound (like nicotine) as energy sources, in flue cure
the resticted oxygen atmosphere gives rise to TSNAs by this mechanism.

 

[Giantfan]

American dip has been improved greatly. Oral tobacco in general doesn't have much of a risk of anything.

 

[Stubby]

American dip has been improved greatly. Oral tobacco in general doesn't have much of a risk of anything.

I agree. American dip has been improving. Some of it is getting close to the TSNA levels of Swedish snus. There is still other problems with dip. The sugar will not do good things for oral health. Of course, then there's the whole spitting thing which some of us... would rather not deal with. The TSNA levels in dip also tend to increase with time because of the fermentation method of processing. A major reason for the pasteurization of snus is that for the most part it sterilizes the tobacco which prevents TSNA levels from increasing as snus ages. Not the same with dip as the TSNA levels can greatly increase with time.