Would a change dot org petition help us?

[FlamingoTutu]

Yeah, I hang out there, and I've posted quite a few in my day... but silly me doesn't keep them handy. I'm pretty good at finding them when I need them though, just a bit of grunt work.

Question though, if I'm referencing a study by Dr. F do you think it would be better to cite the actual study, or one of his blog posts where he digests the study, that also contains a link to the study itself?

I save the links, but I can never find where I save them, so I gave up.

My guess, and don't take my word for it, is the study itself. More professional and all that rot.

I know you're in there posting. I stay logged out when I go there, keeps me from going off. It really is depressing for the most part.

ETA - PMing Rolygate might get some interesting links. He seems to be on top of that stuff especially the health aspects of vaping.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

New post since you already read my last one. By blog posts do you mean things like this E-cigarettes generate high levels of aldehydes only in “dry puff” conditions (irrespective of the power levels) where he refutes the high levels of aldehydes? If so, then hell yes! Sorry about that. His blog posts read like scientific posts. My bad.

 

[Ibitz]

The research behind giving up cigarettes: a Q&A with leading expert Peter Hajek - On Health

EPA & FDA: Vapor Harmless to Children - Minnesota Vapers AdvocacyMinnesota Vapers Advocacy


Evaluation of the cytotoxic potential of e-cigarette vapor on cultured cardiac cells: a new study

Clinical Research: Electronic Cigarettes

E-cigarette research, studies and papers - 2014


What 20 REAL Experts Say About E-Cigs

Safety evaluation and risk assessment of electronic cigarettes as tobacco cigarette substitutes: a systematic review

Here are some links that I have saved. Hope they help. I would definitely sign a petition in Change.org

 

[Lessifer]

Okay, here's the second draft, some additions, some changes, some reordering. Let me know what you think.

To Members of Congress:


Soon you will be presented with regulations proposing to deem electronic cigarettes and other vapor products as tobacco products, bringing them within the regulatory control of the FDA under the FSPTCA.

We, the members of the vaping community, including users of vapor products, ex-smokers, current smokers, and friends and family of smokers and ex-smokers whose lives have been changed by vapor products, and concerned citizens urge you to reject the proposed deeming regulations.

The classification of vapor products as tobacco products is tenuous at best. While some vapor products do contain nicotine, many do not, and this is where the link to tobacco ends. The goal of the FSPTCA is to minimize the health effects of tobacco on public health. In 1976 Professor Michael Russell wrote: “People smoke for nicotine but they die from the tar.”1 Vapor products are free of tobacco, contain no tar, and are not combusted and as such are orders of magnitude less potentially harmful than combustible tobacco.2 In fact, more recent studies that look at nicotine, absent tobacco smoke, show that nicotine is possibly not addictive and could have potential health benefits related to treating Parkinson’s symptoms and staving off Alzheimer’s.3

The Federal government and each state have spent hundreds of millions over decades attempting to discourage people from smoking cigarettes. We now have a viable alternative to tobacco products that could do just that. This disruptive technology has the potential to accomplish what Tobacco Control has failed to do for the past fifty years, unless it is smothered in its infancy. Vapor products, as a recreational consumer good, have the potential to replace combustible tobacco, keeping millions from potential tobacco related illnesses. According to recent CDC surveys, in the time frame that vapor products have been available, smoking rates in the United States have plummeted to an all time low.4 However, if vapor products are subjected to the same strict regulatory control intended to minimize harm from tobacco products, they could be rendered ineffectual due to the stifling nature of those regulations.

By rejecting the classification of vapor products as tobacco products we can:

1 Protect access to flavors, which are an integral part of the vapor experience.5

2 Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure the equipment and e-liquids that are best suited for their needs.

3 Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which allow the consumer to tailor their experience to their needs which could range from higher concentrations to aid in transitioning from smoking to nicotine free for enjoyment and maintenance.

4 Protect access to open, reusable container system that are more cost effective and environmentally friendly.

Vapor products are not tobacco products, they are a safer alternative to tobacco products which may or may not contain nicotine. Vapor products are also a driving force behind thousands of small and medium businesses across the country, creating jobs and feeding the economy, many of which will not survive the exorbitant fee structure of tobacco product approval that has kept the cigarette market in the hands of only the major tobacco companies. Instead of relegating vapor products to tobacco control, a new category of product regulation can be implemented, one that could inspire innovation along with public health and safety. The best way to protect this life altering technology is to not place it under the auspices of the FSPTCA, by not deeming vapor products as tobacco products.



Cited References

1 Russell M. Low-tar medium-nicotine cigarettes: a new approach to safer smoking. British Medical Journal 1976;1:1430-1433

2 IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Nicotine Levels and Presence of Selected Tobacco-Derived Toxins in Tobacco Flavoured Electronic Cigarette Refill Liquids

3 Nicotine, the Wonder Drug? | DiscoverMagazine.com

4 Adult cigarette smoking rate overall hits all-time low| CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

5 Big Survey 2014 - Initial Findings Eliquid | Vaping.com

Additional Resources:

E-cigarettes generate high levels of aldehydes only in “dry puff” conditions (irrespective of the power levels)

The research behind giving up cigarettes: a Q&A with leading expert Peter Hajek - On Health

EPA & FDA: Vapor Harmless to Children - Minnesota Vapers AdvocacyMinnesota Vapers Advocacy

Evaluation of the cytotoxic potential of e-cigarette vapor on cultured cardiac cells: a new study

Clinical Research: Electronic Cigarettes

E-cigarette research, studies and papers - 2014

What 20 REAL Experts Say About E-Cigs

Safety evaluation and risk assessment of electronic cigarettes as tobacco cigarette substitutes: a systematic review

http://notblowingsmoke.org

 

[Lessifer]

Ok, one more request, I need a photo or video to be the visual centerpiece. Suggestions? I'm thinking a photo of a nice friendly, possibly older vaper, and I'd need their permission to use the photo. Thoughts?

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Damn you, looked one more time before tucking in.

It looks fantastic, quibble here or there about a few words but that's it. I'll bring them up tomorrow.

Ok, one more request, I need a photo or video to be the visual centerpiece. Suggestions? I'm thinking a photo of a nice friendly, possibly older vaper, and I'd need their permission to use the photo. Thoughts?

choochoogranny is your woman! She knocked my socks off before I even know it was her. She's great, just wonderful, charismatic, does a wonderful job. Someone, or she, can come up with the video of her.

EDIT - Really going to bed now, big medical test tomorrow. Again, congratulations on a great (but mildly tweakable) document.

 

[Verb]

3rd paragraph last line, I believe the "of" should be "off."


But, maybe not, grammar is not my expertise.

 

[Lessifer]

3rd paragraph last line, I believe the "of" should be "off."


But, maybe not, grammar is not my expertise.

You're right

 

[KattMamma]

New study finds no health concerns in e-cig vapor - American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)

Machine-puffed e-cigs yielded vapor containing exactly what you’d expect, and not much else - American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)

Secondhand Exposure to Vapors From Electronic Cigarettes

 

[Robino1]

As I see all these links getting posted, I can't help but remember a time not that many years ago when we did Not have anything that we could point to, to contradict what the anti's were saying. We only had our own stories of how our personal health had improved.

Now that what we already knew to be fact is being proven out, they keep raising the bar. It's time that bar gets knocked off its braces. Who knows? This one might be the key.

Wouldn't that be freaking awesome?

 

[mattiem]

Nothing profound to add at the moment. Do like the suggestion of adding something about the flavors and so on that you've said you do plan to add.



Not arguing with you but nicotine is used as a drug for some illnesses. It can also be derived from other sources including the Duboisia hopwoodii shrub. Just easier/more cost effective to do it from the tobacco plant. But I bet these political idiots don't even know they eat nicotine almost every day and will test positive for it in their systems.


The petition may not be successful but may make some sit up and take notice. May also make some vapers more aware. Even if it "fails," I see it as a win.

That is very true FT. Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I just meant that vaping shouldn't be classified as a drug delivery device. Thank you for keeping me on my toes.

 

[bluecat]

I'm stocking on these, how do you guys like my walk-in humidor?

Surely after your nic base becomes completely stale you'll want a few of these......

You didn't put an address of where to come.

 

[beckdg]

I think members of congress need a bit of educational info on nicotine.
Something like:

Current studies showed that nicotine by itself is not really a harmful substance, it is products of tobacco combustion derived from cigarette smoking that produce real harm to human health. Some studies even indicate that nicotine is beneficial ... (whatever for it is beneficial). Vaping is one of the most effective methods of smoking cessation, thousands (millions?) people already quit smoking thanks to it. Over-taxation on the level of tobacco of nicotine for vaping will make this effective method too expensive and out of reach for average smoker. Please, save lives.

That could be a nice cover page for street beaters to use on a local level. Door to door petitioning in every town USA, I think is going to be pertinent to spreading information and garnering support.

We need to be presidential.

We need to shake some babies and kiss some hands.

We need to look people in the eye and show them we're confident of this healthy alternative because of the many documented health improvements of our peers.

And we need to back that up with every Avenue available to us. All pointing to an identical petition so as to count all signatures to the same document.

yes, we're going to need youtube faces, Facebook, Twitter, instagram, vendors, friends, family and even friendly politicians.

But we don't need to waste energy swaying anybody who's not ripe for the cause. That's a train wreck... it causes people to stop, look and be distracted instead of move forward and push on.

If we could get copies of a petition printed with a clear set of directions of what to do with it (where to send it and by what date), I would be happy to get signatures and hand out petitions for others to get signatures at truck stops from coast to coast.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

I won't turn this into a "e-Liquids that contain Nicotine shouldn't be considered a "Tobacco Product" because ______" thread.

But I don't think we have Any Real congressional support to Appose it. I think that will have to be Pursued in the Court System. If that is Possible.

BTW - I would consider Adding to you Petition Draft a Short Paragraph saying something to the Effect.

"The Federal Government, as well as Every State, has spent Hundreds of Millions of Dollars for decades to persuade people to Not Smoke Cigarettes. We now have a Viable Alternative for those who have been Unable to do so by using an e-Cigarette. Restricting the use of e-Cigarettes by Limiting Flavors that Adults want only lessens the Chances of a Smoker successfully to quitting Smoking by using an e-Cigarette. And this runs completely counter to the Goals of Both the FDA and the CDC with regards to Public Health"

You then could reference the ECF Survey Data relating to Adult Flavor Preferences.

Also. And this Should be Emphasized.

"The Requirement of Face to Face sales of Tobacco Product is Not Necessary. We have a host of Proven Safeguards currently in place to Ensure that Minors can not purchase Alcohol over the Internet. We should Implement these Safeguards instead of Banning Internet sales."

Love these 2 statements and believe them to be of utmost pertinence to our cause.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

I just don't think we have the Congressional Support to accomplish this.

Remember: We are going to ask the Same People who Passed the FSTCA to now say that they Don't want e-Liquids that contain Nicotine to be Deemed as a Tobacco Product?

But you are the one Drafting the Petition. And I will Sign it in it's current form.

We don't want to "have support". We want to force the issue.

We're not going to get the support you seek by any means, zoiD.

Don't you see that?

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

I just don't think we have the Congressional Support to accomplish this.

Remember: We are going to ask the Same People who Passed the FSTCA to now say that they Don't want e-Liquids that contain Nicotine to be Deemed as a Tobacco Product?

But you are the one Drafting the Petition. And I will Sign it in it's current form.

We don't want to "have support". We want to force the issue.

We're not going to get the support you seek by any means, zoiD.

Don't you see that?

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Bravo!

Spoken like a Man who has Many Liters of Nicotine Base in a Freezer.



BTW - I see No Problems getting Senators/Senator to back your "Such authority simply does not exist!" position. And I'm sure their Money givers will Quickly Fall In Line also.

Again

We don't want their support.

We want them in the position you're personally currently in... conceding defeat and struggling for our acceptance.

Tapatyped

 

[Caro123]

lessifer I am Canadian I confess the deeming thing somewhat confuses me BUT I do know what ever the FDA says gets bandied about here and what ever happens south of the border always makes its way north eventually.

you have written a great article. I would sign it in a heart beat
I appreciate the links

 

[beckdg]

I save the links, but I can never find where I save them, so I gave up.

My guess, and don't take my word for it, is the study itself. More professional and all that rot.

I know you're in there posting. I stay logged out when I go there, keeps me from going off. It really is depressing for the most part.

ETA - PMing Rolygate might get some interesting links. He seems to be on top of that stuff especially the health aspects of vaping.

And smokey joe. He's very involved and aware as well and he's been published on e-cig topics a couple times.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Ok, one more request, I need a photo or video to be the visual centerpiece. Suggestions? I'm thinking a photo of a nice friendly, possibly older vaper, and I'd need their permission to use the photo. Thoughts?

Robin with a provari in the kitchen.

That's my suspect... err... suggestion.

Oh Robino... yoohoo...

Tapatyped