14500 Batteries

[Kemosabe]

Paraphrased from ECF's battery warning thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...9007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs.html

Note 1
Li-Mn or Li-FePo4 rechargeables made by for example AW are a safer technology battery that can be used - they need no protection.

Current information is that AW IMR Li-Mn rechargeables are the safest batteries for use in APVs.

Ron -

Hey man, I completely understand how you feel. You have to do what you feel is right for you. I will add that a lot of devices were made and tested prior to the AW IMR being made. The difference in the protected battery and the AW IMR is the protected battery uses a protection circuit that shuts the battery down to possibly keep it from a catastrophic failure whereas the AW IMR is a safer chemistry battery to prevent that from happening. I will say that in the past several months, a lot of vendors that once recommended the protected batteries, (as you've stated), in their APV's, have changed their description to the AW IMR safer chemistry batteries as they have a pretty positive track record to date in the industry. Not to mention they are the best high drain battery on the market, but with the addition of the new Panasonics they are getting a run for their money. Though I have only seen the Panasonics in 18650 size so far. I heard they are going to be manufacturing in different sizes for the vaping community though. I also believe I read a few posts as to the amp limit being a lot higher on the AW IMR by almost double that if the ICR that you are using, which would make them safer as they don't get overpowered by a lot of the APV's in todays market. I think the max discharge rate for the protected is 5.2 amps and the safer chemistry is 10 amps. There are a few posts on the forum about this topic and there was a lot of good info about batteries with the unfortunate incidents in Florida and Colorado this past year. I do know that the Efest batteries are relatively new in the vaping industry and they are also "safer chemistry" the same as the AW IMR's. I have suspicions that they are actually made by AW and re-branded with the Efest label. They are certainly very similar in all aspects.... I could be wrong about the re-branding but it is certainly coincidental though.....




Very nice find Ron..... I was looking, but obviously not in the right place..... Thanks....

Thanks guys for your input. I dont doubt that the IMRs are safer by nature, my concern was that something about my mod would be wrong for them and cause them to do somehting that would normally not happen. i was concerned that i would be using the batteries incorrectly. it clearly states to use protected only in my mod. i erred on the side of caution, but i dont know how cautious i am in the long run. its only a matter of time until i get a single batt device anyway so i am comfortable with my current setup for the time being.

as far as the efests being rebranded AW, i guess anything is possible but i think the Efests were non-button top batts. the AWs appeard to be button top, if that matters.

 

[rookbartley989]

The statement to only use protected batteries in your mod is more of a CYA tactic used by many companies that make things that could be unsafe. Look at the matchbook, pull out match, close the cover and strike...we all know that many of us never close the cover and very rarely has a matchbook fully ignited from not closing it...but it could happen lol. If you feel safe with protected batteries then by all means use them, you are closing the matchbook cover and there is nothing wrong with that! If you want to be even safer you could try one of those 2 cents for safety fuses as well...

Ron -

 

[muzichead]

Thanks guys for your input. I dont doubt that the IMRs are safer by nature, my concern was that something about my mod would be wrong for them and cause them to do somehting that would normally not happen. i was concerned that i would be using the batteries incorrectly. it clearly states to use protected only in my mod. i erred on the side of caution, but i dont know how cautious i am in the long run. its only a matter of time until i get a single batt device anyway so i am comfortable with my current setup for the time being.

as far as the efests being rebranded AW, i guess anything is possible but i think the Efests were non-button top batts. the AWs appeard to be button top, if that matters.

Its all good.... Just wanted to let you know the AW's were a better battery for your APV in the long run..... As I told you earlier I have the 3.7V box from SmokTek and purchased their protected batteries with it and also bought the AW's to try since everyone, including a lot of trusted ECF vendors, suggested them and they run circles around the protected batteries I got with my box.... Was just trying to give you the option of a better performing and safer battery for your APV.... Happy vaping....

 

[THE]

Sorry I haven't been around to put my two cents in...

Using only protected batteries I think is meant to be "instead of unprotected lithium ion" ... and definitely instead of "EVER using primaries"

As I understand it - AW IMR are LIMN which is a safer chemistry battery. They are rated to handle the load we're putting them on, while other batteries are not. I'd also keep in mind that protection circuits on lithium ion batteries have been known to fail, especially on Xfire or other no name batteries. So "protected" lion batteries can very well end up being "unprotected" lion batteries.

I wouldn't want to end up with a non protected lithium ion battery- and it can and does happen.

The guy who managed to hurt himself had primaries (non rechargeable batteries) that he accidentally had put into a charger. He had them in a NON VENTED tube mod. I'm more than comfortable with my limn imrs in a vented mod, from what I have read and from my experience with limn batteries, thus far.

All of that said, for me, I definitely favor using safe chemistry batteries which are also actually rated to be able to handle the load and which come from a trusted distributor known for quality standards .... It's definitely a matter of personal choice and everything else, but for me, the AW IMR

1. Is a safer battery overall. Hands down.
2. Provides more current / better vaping.
3. Lasts longer between charges.
4. Lasts longer overall.

^These are just my personal opinions and it all comes from what I have read on here and battery forums. If I am wrong about anything I have said, please feel free to let me know. I'll appreciate it!

 

[evilferret]

OP does the 14500 IMR's fit the Varicool?

Thinking about getting the Smokbox and I have a few IMR 14500's.

Thanks

Anybody know where to find cheap battery spacers? What size am I looking for?

 

[Kemosabe]

The 14500 AW IMR batts were the same size as the 14500 Trustfire flame batts. they were both 50mm. I think thats where the 500 comes from in the name. (50.0mm)
im not sure if they will work in the varicool however. i know that the flat-top IMRs will not. i asked the owner of smoktek to comment on the AW IMRs being used in a varicool, but i guess hes super busy because its been a long while and i havent heard anything. he is dealing with a move to a bigger location or something like that.

OP does the 14500 IMR's fit the Varicool?

Thinking about getting the Smokbox and I have a few IMR 14500's.

Thanks

Anybody know where to find cheap battery spacers? What size am I looking for?

 

[evilferret]

The 14500 AW IMR batts were the same size as the 14500 Trustfire flame batts. they were both 50mm. I think thats where the 500 comes from in the name. (50.0mm)
im not sure if they will work in the varicool however. i know that the flat-top IMRs will not. i asked the owner of smoktek to comment on the AW IMRs being used in a varicool, but i guess hes super busy because its been a long while and i havent heard anything. he is dealing with a move to a bigger location or something like that.

Sigh, guess I won't know unless I order it eh?

I wonder if the flattops will work with a spacer.

 

[Kemosabe]

i got a reply from the owner. he said that he has not personally tried the AWs in the varicool, but he says if they are less then 51mm, and have the button-top they should work. id be very interested to find out if they work for you, as they didnt for me. im about to buy a new PV, one that can use IMR batts. and i might as well make it a single batt PV while im at it.
note: i dont think any flat-tops will work. the owner was pretty clear about this.

Sigh, guess I won't know unless I order it eh?

I wonder if the flattops will work with a spacer.

 

[evilferret]

i got a reply from the owner. he said that he has not personally tried the AWs in the varicool, but he says if they are less then 51mm, and have the button-top they should work. id be very interested to find out if they work for you, as they didnt for me. im about to buy a new PV, one that can use IMR batts. and i might as well make it a single batt PV while im at it.
note: i dont think any flat-tops will work. the owner was pretty clear about this.

Smoktek just responded on another thread that AW IMR's button tops should work.

And flat tops will work with magnets. Time to find magnets. Got a ton of flat tops from older mods.

 

[Kemosabe]

thats good news in theory. unfortunately, i had opposite results. the AWs did not work. they lit up the vape light, but the atty did not get warmed up and no vapor was produced. the batts measured approx 4v on the multimeter. im not sure what the issue was, but all i got was a big

 

[THE]

thats good news in theory. unfortunately, i had opposite results. the AWs did not work. they lit up the vape light, but the atty did not get warmed up and no vapor was produced. the batts measured approx 4v on the multimeter. im not sure what the issue was, but all i got was a big

Wow, I can't imagine what happened.. I've had great luck with them and seen a million positive posts about them... that said, I guess you could have gotten bad ones, anything is possible.. I'm not sure what you're using them in, does it have a voltage regulator? Maybe it thinks they're too powerful .. but if they're only measuring 4v I think it should have been a little more .. 4.2? Maybe some expert knows, but I think so

 

[Kemosabe]

yeah im sure they would have charged up to 4.2v. they werent fully charged when i got them.

its possible they were bad, but the multimeter didnt show me any signs that i was able to pick up on.

i think your idea about them being too powerful might be right. although my box mod does have a regulator. and its a nice one as far as i know, its the EverCool switching regulator. the box mod is the smokbox varicool from smoktek.

id really like to get into IMR batts, but im not sure if i can with this mod...

 

[evilferret]

yeah im sure they would have charged up to 4.2v. they werent fully charged when i got them.

its possible they were bad, but the multimeter didnt show me any signs that i was able to pick up on.

i think your idea about them being too powerful might be right. although my box mod does have a regulator. and its a nice one as far as i know, its the EverCool switching regulator. the box mod is the smokbox varicool from smoktek.

id really like to get into IMR batts, but im not sure if i can with this mod...

Have you tried pulling the post on the atty or a different atty/carto? Sounds like you're not making good contact if the vape light shows up and it doesn't work.

I'll let you know how mine goes, getting mine on Monday.

 

[Kemosabe]

Yeah let me know how it goes. It wasn't an atty/carto connection problem. These things have worked
On other batts.

 

[niczgreat]

Its all good.... Just wanted to let you know the AW's were a better battery for your APV in the long run..... As I told you earlier I have the 3.7V box from SmokTek and purchased their protected batteries with it and also bought the AW's to try since everyone, including a lot of trusted ECF vendors, suggested them and they run circles around the protected batteries I got with my box.... Was just trying to give you the option of a better performing and safer battery for your APV.... Happy vaping....

Whoa, Actually with the Smoktek Unit you need to be careful. The Smoktek Varicool is excellent
read my thread
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/321528-smoktek-smokbox-varicool-custom-box-mod-made-u-s-review.html
The Smoktek does not include undervoltage protection. This means that if you use the unit too long than you will take the voltage below the tolerance of the battery and basically it will be ruined. If you don't have a multimeter Costs $7.50 at Harbor Freight be careful to change out your battery once a day.

I don't have your unit so I can't say how long 1 14500 will last at 3.7v but I'll be doing my own testing on the Varicool unit.

I have a set of AW imr 14500 coming in and I'll be able to give precise figures on how long they will last.

The protected Trustfires that come with the unit work perfectly for normal vaping and have protection which means they will cut off when the voltage is too long and your battery will be fine.

In this case if you don't know what you are doing, yes you should use protected batteries.
I should mention undervolting the batteries will destroy them but it is not dangerous.

 

[Kemosabe]

actually, ive managed to kill 2 14500 trustfire flame batteries on separate occasions. i dont know if the battery was defective, or if somehting abotu the mod killed them, but ever since i got my miltimeter, ive been checking my batts like crazy. one day i noticed one batt that was at 3.2v dead, all of a sudden the next day, it was well below 2.5v and into the danger zone. so i chucked it. a get a new batt and shortly after, the same thing happend only slightly worse. this dead batt was reading 0.00v on the multimeter. i thought it would have exploded or gottne hot or something but nope.
anyway, im very interested to see if you have positive results with the AWs in the smoktek varicool. ive since moved to a single batt mod as my main PV, but im still very interested.

 

[niczgreat]

What you need to do is not stress the battery. Once a day change it whether it needs to or not.

Trustfire is not high quality so it's quite possible that the undervoltage protection didn't work on them.

One other thing I read about batteries is that there is something called resting voltage, which is the voltage after they've been not used for 1/2 an hour. I believe I read that when resting the battery voltage will go down. So immediately after they are off the vaping unit charge them, don't wait.

Also another variable is the charger. Two well known chargers on the market are Pila and Xtar.
I have an Xtar, it is a stage charger which detects the voltage in the battery and than charges accordingly. These Chargers
will extend the life of your batteries. The Xtar charges softly to begin with, than it charges hard at 1amp than finally it trickle charges at the end. It's around $20.00 delivered I bought mine from
SBFlashlights $23.00 with 4 extra spacers. You will need 2 spacers for a 14500 battery.

What Amp is your charger at. If it's a 1 amp charger that's too high for these batteries. The Xtar has a manual 500mah setting for low batteries like the 600mah IMR and than a 1 Amp setting for the 18650. The rule of thumb is never charge a battery at a setting that is higher than the Mah.

If a battery is undervolted the Xtar trickles the power to it minutely for a period of time and this is supposed to revive the battery.

Actually I always quit vaping when the battery is around 3.5 Volts that's because the Battery under Heavy load may go down by around .2 volts (Scientifically unproven but my hunch)

 

[niczgreat]

The 14500 AW IMR batts were the same size as the 14500 Trustfire flame batts. they were both 50mm. I think thats where the 500 comes from in the name. (50.0mm)
im not sure if they will work in the varicool however. i know that the flat-top IMRs will not. i asked the owner of smoktek to comment on the AW IMRs being used in a varicool, but i guess hes super busy because its been a long while and i havent heard anything. he is dealing with a move to a bigger location or something like that.

I have the Aw 14500 imr button top coming in on Friday or Monday at the latest and I plan to take them through the paces

One thing to mention, I've heard that counterfeit AW Batteries are in the market. Even a reputable E-Cig reseller could be duped.

On the Flashlight forums and believe you me, these guys know their stuff they all buy from LightHound they are an authorized AW distributor and while they may be more expensive the veterans say they wouldn't screw up their reputation as THE source for authentic batteries by selling Grey Market or Black Market Product.

Another Variable Kemosabe, AW makes two different 14500 batteries, I ordered 4 from a ecig place because Lighthound was out of stock and they sent me the 14500 AW Protected Battery. I recognized the mistake immediately and returned them.

I've reordered from Lighthound, and the way to tell the two apart is that the 14500 IMR is a boring Red Color and I believe says 600mah. The protected version has silver red and black on it and looks modern I believe it is rated at 700 or 750ah. Based on your measurements of the battery, it's very possible that you received the wrong battery because the unprotected are around 49mm if I remember correctly.

 

[Kemosabe]

my charger specs are as follows:
Input: AC 100v-240v 50/60Hz Max 150mA
Output: DC 4.2V === 600mAh

i appreciate the advice to charge every day regardless of the power level. i always heard that batts' longevity is increased when charged at 50%. sometime i charged at 50%, sometimes i didnt. now i will always.

the AWs i got were indeed the red ones. i know the black ones your talking about though. i avoided those becasue they didt say high drain.

lighthound sounds like a very legit vendor. i had seen them on a google search, but was unclear as to their reputation. thanks for the tip.

 

[niczgreat]

my charger specs are as follows:
Input: AC 100v-240v 50/60Hz Max 150mA
Output: DC 4.2V === 600mAh

i appreciate the advice to charge every day regardless of the power level. i always heard that batts' longevity is increased when charged at 50%. sometime i charged at 50%, sometimes i didnt. now i will always.

the AWs i got were indeed the red ones. i know the black ones your talking about though. i avoided those becasue they didt say high drain.

lighthound sounds like a very legit vendor. i had seen them on a google search, but was unclear as to their reputation. thanks for the tip.

Your charger is fine for the batteries. But since you have had problems with batteries going bad on you, I'd suggest that you purchase the Xtar Charger. I purchased a Soshine which uses the same algorithm and since I began using a quality charger, my batteries are lasting forever.
At $20.00 I predict you'll get a return on investment within a year. Your batteries will last longer and it will revive the ones that might have been dead. No overvoltin either. Also the no name chargers aren't reliable. Lithium Batteries are dangerous, I've read too many horror stories on the web about no name chargers with batteries burning up, exploding, fires etc..Myself, For safety reasons, I won't trust the safety of my family to a cheap charger.